Super Saiyan as a child's plaything - Your thoughts

[TheGmGoken]

There is no way any Saiyan at there base is more powerful than a Saiyan, it's illogical.

Very funny. Trunks didn't have Goten to fight so he didn't get stronger. Trunks was most likely around what 300,00 or maybe lower? While Future Gohan is 2 million - 5 million. Do the math

[ABED]

I'm not gonna do the math because there are no power levels after the reading Freeza's men took of Trunks. Power levels in the story have always been wonky.

[TheGmGoken]

I'm not gonna do the math because there are no power levels after the reading Freeza's men took of Trunks. Power levels in the story have always been wonky.

It's hypothetical. Trunks didn't have Goten to play with(Fighting) so he didn't get to grow as strong. Which means Future Gohan would destroy him even as a SSJ.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'm not gonna do the math because there are no power levels after the reading Freeza's men took of Trunks. Power levels in the story have always been wonky.

It's just for comparison. Super Saiyan is just a x50 multiplier.

[rereboy]

There is no way any Saiyan at there base is more powerful than a Saiyan, it's illogical.

Very funny. Trunks didn't have Goten to fight so he didn't get stronger. Trunks was most likely around what 300,00 or maybe lower? While Future Gohan is 2 million - 5 million. Do the math

Doing the math, by your numbers: 300.000 x 50 = 15.000.000

If Gohan is 5 million at his base, Trunks would have to have only 100.000 at his base to be as strong as Gohan's base when he turns SSJ. And less than that for Gohan to be stronger. And if Gohan is only 2 million at base, Trunks would have to be 40.000 to match Gohan's base with his SSJ, and weaker than that for Gohan to be stronger.

This is a matter of opinion, but personally I don't think Trunks would be that weak at his base. He was trained by Gohan and probably spars with him frequently.

[TheGmGoken]

Doing the math, by your numbers: 300.000 x 50 = 15.000.000

I said lower.

[rereboy]

Doing the math, by your numbers: 300.000 x 50 = 15.000.000

I said lower.

Yes, just like I pointed out in the rest of my post. My entire point was that his base power would have to be pretty low for his SSJ to match up to Gohan's base or be weaker. I personally don't believe it would be that low.

Also, your argument is that he is weak because he doesn't have Goten to spar with, but you forget that he spars with Gohan and trains with him.

[ABED]

I know the math works out to SS being a 50x power multiplier but it doesn't make sense in the Freeza fight because Goku was completely exhausted at that point.

[TheGmGoken]

Also, your argument is that he is weak because he doesn't have Goten to spar with, but you forget that he spars with Gohan and trains with him.

Did NOT forget that. Trunks didn't have Goten and didn't start training till like what his teenage years(I trust Toei on this one since the manga didn't say. Plus one of the few times Toei made sense) . So naturally he didn't get to see his full potential

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I personally don't believe it would be that low.

It can be very low, if Trunks has started training with Gohan recently. And to me, Trunks doesn't seem to be training for many months.

it doesn't make sense in the Freeza fight because Goku was completely exhausted at that point.

Obviously, it re-energized him, probably because it was the first transformations. I mean, Goku could barely move after Genki Dama, but after transforming, he didn't show any symptoms of exhaustion.

[ABED]

Also, your argument is that he is weak because he doesn't have Goten to spar with, but you forget that he spars with Gohan and trains with him.

Did NOT forget that. Trunks didn't have Goten and didn't start training till like what his teenage years(I trust Toei on this one since the manga didn't say. Plus one of the few times Toei made sense) . So naturally he didn't get to see his full potential

Generally speaking, it's better to train and learn with someone better than you. Future Gohan is much stronger and seasoned in comparison to the difference between Little Trunks and Goten.

[TheGmGoken]

Generally speaking, it's better to train and learn with someone better than you. Future Gohan is much stronger and seasoned in comparison to the difference between Little Trunks and Goten.

Still started later in his life than Present Trunks.

[ABED]

Generally speaking, it's better to train and learn with someone better than you. Future Gohan is much stronger and seasoned in comparison to the difference between Little Trunks and Goten.

Still started later in his life than Present Trunks.

Granted but it's easier to make greater gains learning from someone much better than you. In the manga, does Toriyama state when Trunks and Gohan started training?

[TheGmGoken]

Generally speaking, it's better to train and learn with someone better than you. Future Gohan is much stronger and seasoned in comparison to the difference between Little Trunks and Goten.

Still started later in his life than Present Trunks.

Granted but it's easier to make greater gains learning from someone much better than you. In the manga, does Toriyama state when Trunks and Gohan started training?

Nope but one of the few times I trust Toei. Since it's the only time they made almost 100% sense. So I'll go with Toei and say Trunks started training with Gohan around his teen years

[rereboy]

I know the math works out to SS being a 50x power multiplier but it doesn't make sense in the Freeza fight because Goku was completely exhausted at that point.

Freeza had taken significant damage as well. He took the Genki Dama in the face, as well as other attacks. So if you are going to take into consideration Goku's exhaustion and damage, you should also take into consideration Freeza's damage and exhaustion.

The 50x power multiplier works on that fights as long as you consider their damage to not to be worlds apart.

[ABED]

Freeza still looked to be in far better condition than Goku. Freeza was able to destroy Namek's core and put up a good fight against Goku for a while.

[rereboy]

Also, your argument is that he is weak because he doesn't have Goten to spar with, but you forget that he spars with Gohan and trains with him.

Did NOT forget that. Trunks didn't have Goten and didn't start training till like what his teenage years(I trust Toei on this one since the manga didn't say. Plus one of the few times Toei made sense) . So naturally he didn't get to see his full potential

I don't agree. It was clear in the manga that Trunks and Goten didn't train or spar that seriously, they did it more for playing and having fun, and they didn't even receive any real training from Vegeta or Gohan.

Even if Future Trunks started sparing later in life compared to the other Trunks, I see no real reason for Future Trunks to be weaker than 100.000 in his base after having already received training and sparing from Gohan, while the other Trunks and Goten are obviously in the millions at base.

Weaker than the other Trunks? Of course. But that weak? I don't agree.

[KentalSSJ6]

What if Old Kai just did his ritual and gave all the Saiyans a Mystic form, doing away with SSJ1-3 altogether?

[TheGmGoken]

What if Old Kai just did his ritual and gave all the Saiyans a Mystic form, doing away with SSJ1-3 altogether?

Then it'll go
Tarble
Gohan
Goten or Trunks
Trunks or Goten
Vegeta(according to BoG)
Goku

[ABED]

What if Old Kai just did his ritual and gave all the Saiyans a Mystic form, doing away with SSJ1-3 altogether?

Then it'll go
Tarble
Gohan
Goten or Trunks
Trunks or Goten
Vegeta(according to BoG)
Goku

How do you figure Goku is last?