How strong is Base Vegetto?

[hleV]

He wanted Buu to feel helpless so that he would resort to absorption. One of the ways he did that (besides being so much stronger than him) was by humiliating him, which is why Vegetto kept taunting him and even started fighting him with just his legs at one point (which is a perfect example of Vegetto limiting himself to have more fun and to continue to humiliate Buu until he used his absorption).

By the way, showing Buu how much superior he is, falls right in line with reverting to base and kicking his ass just with base. That would have demonstrated how superior he was even more effectively than just using his legs to fight.

Like I said, there's no difference whether Vegetto is in base form or SS, if the result is the same. The only difference is that SS looks cooler, and that's out-universe.

[rereboy]

Then why Vegetto decided to just use his legs to fight Buu at one point? The result is the same whether he uses his legs or not.

Unless he thought that limiting himself would be more fun and that it would demonstrate how superior he was more effectively, while making Buu feel more helpless more and humiliated. You know, like using just his base would.

[hleV]

To show that he can beat him with his legs only. A SS using his legs only is cool, but it doesn't make Vegetto's base inferior to Boo.

I understand your point, I'm just saying it's not a hard evidence.

[rereboy]

To show that he can beat him with his legs only. A SS using his legs only is cool, but it doesn't make Vegetto's base inferior to Boo.

And Vegetto using only his base to beat him wouldn't be cool? He wouldn't be interested in showing that he can beat him with his base only?

Its basically the same train of thought, I don't see why Vegetto would do one thing and not do the other if he could beat Buu easily with his base.

I understand your point, I'm just saying it's not a hard evidence.

Never said it was. I just said I find it likely that his base can't beat Buu easily because, if it could, I believe its likely that Vegetto would use it.

[Rocketman]

There is one big difference, though - using just his legs means that he still has all his Super Saiyan-granted enormous reserves just in case Buu pulls some kind of trick on him (which he does, turning Vegetto into candy). Reverting to base is much riskier.

[hleV]

And Vegetto using only his base to beat him wouldn't be cool?

To me personally it would.

He wouldn't be interested in showing that he can beat him with his base only?

Like I said, Vegetto was trying to make Boo feel hopeless. However he did that was up to him. Fighting with just his feet can indeed make Boo feel hopeless, while I don't think it makes a difference for Boo whether the opponent is in base or SS.

Its basically the same train of thought, I don't see why Vegetto would do one thing and not do the other if he could beat Buu easily with his base.

According to you, Vegetto had to choose X and not Y if he was stronger than Boo in base.
According to me, Vegetto could choose X, Y, or both, as long as he gets results.

[rereboy]

There is one big difference, though - using just his legs means that he still has all his Super Saiyan-granted enormous reserves just in case Buu pulls some kind of trick on him (which he does, turning Vegetto into candy). Reverting to base is much riskier.

Exactly. But if he was still that much stronger than Gohan-Buu in his base form, it would hardly be a risk. Limiting himself in that way instead of reverting back for example, makes it seem to me that he is not very confident that he could handle Buu with ease (like he can with his SSJ) just with his base. He could even be superior to Gohan-Buu in his base, but not to a point where he wouldn't have at least some difficulty.

Its basically the same train of thought, I don't see why Vegetto would do one thing and not do the other if he could beat Buu easily with his base.

According to you, Vegetto had to choose X and not Y if he was stronger than Boo in base.
According to me, Vegetto could choose X, Y, or both, as long as he gets results.

Not HAD. Its MORE LIKELY, in my opinion.

Seriously, you always end up using the same old argument, the one that basically goes like this: oh, but we don't know for sure, its not hard proof, it could be something else, it didn't have to be that way, etc.

Like I've told you before, its because there's no hard proof and no way to know for sure that we actually discuss things here, and here we state what we think is more likely or what its our interpretation on these matters that don't really have a straight answer.

And that's was what I did.

I don't really see the point of you using that argument over and over, like it was something that wasn't already implied in these matters.

[hleV]

Well, I said there's no hard evidence. You kept the discussion going. I personally don't see your view as the more likely scenario, they're 50-50 to me.

[rereboy]

Well, I said there's no hard evidence. You kept the discussion going. I personally don't see your view as the more likely scenario, they're 50-50 to me.

I've been merely responding to your posts, which are responses to mine.

[hleV]

I only disagree with what you think are implications to base Vegetto being inferior to Boo. I don't see them as implications, and I do my best to explain why.

• Vegetto goes SS right off the bat for whatever reason (there can be plenty), even though he doesn't yet realize his power.
• Vegetto owns Boo and points out that he didn't expect it to be that easy.
• Vegetto tries to make Boo feel hopeless by humiliating him and showing superiority. This includes Vegetto fighting with just his feet, which definitely shows his superiority to Boo, but not reverting to base, which would or would not mean a damn to Boo.

Something's missing here... Oh, the implication(s) for Vegetto being weaker than Boo in base.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Am I to assume that you're one of those people that don't deal in important details and just look at the bigger picture? Goku was planning to go SS when he fuses (with Gohan, but I don't think that matters) and the Elder Kaioshin told him to do that after fusing and not before. That's what Vegetto did. Only to realize that he's way more powerful than expected. But that's after he went SS. Base Vegetto could be anywhere from much weaker to much stronger than Boo.

Rou Kaioshin also told Goku that he didn't have to turn Super Saiyan though. So, going Super Saiyan wasn't in the plan anymore.

Kaioshin stated that being rivals helps the fusion be stronger, but when does he state that their rivalry boost is enough to compensate the difference in power between Gohan and Vegeta? Because Gohan is WAY stronger than Vegeta.

I was talking about base/SS Gokhan & base/SS Vegetto, not Ultimate "Gokhan". Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Vegeta, but base/SS/2 Vegeta is stronger than base/SS/2 Gohan, and since Goku & Vegeta match better, then base/SS/3 Vegetto should be stronger than base/SS/3 "Gokhan", with "Gokhan" surpassing him only with Ultimate.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Humiliating Boo was not what Vegetto wanted to do. He wanted to show Boo his superiority so Boo would absorb him. And succeeded.

Umm no, your first post fails to mention that Vegetto doesn't explicitly say that he didn't need to transform. The notion that such a basic statement is being used to try and back up base Vegetto being stronger than Buuhan is weak argument at best. That's the point of my post.

My first post didn't fail to mention anything that needed to be mentioned. You said you understood my point, but apparently you didn't (otherwise you wouldn't have replied). I said that Vegetto saying that he didn't know he could own Boo so easily simply means that at first he didn't know his full power, neither base nor SS. That's why there's no 100% proof that Vegetto needed SS to begin with. That's my whole point.

You were implying base Vegetto could be stronger than Buuhan in base since he didn't know he would be as strong as he was. I'm stating that's a weak argument since there is a 50 times gap between his base and Ssj form. I don't know what your up in arms about. Merely implying your argument is weak isn't an unnecessary reply.

[hleV]

Rou Kaioshin also told Goku that he didn't have to turn Super Saiyan though. So, going Super Saiyan wasn't in the plan anymore.

Or Goku decided to go with his own plan. The Elder Kaioshin didn't told him to not go SS because it won't be necessary (he even bothered to explain that they should do it after fusing), only that even without it Goku & Gohan's fusion "should be plenty". Vegeta is weaker than Gohan, so I can see Goku wanting to go SS just in case.

You were implying base Vegetto could be stronger than Buuhan in base since he didn't know he would be as strong as he was. I'm stating that's a weak argument since there is a 50 times gap between his base and Ssj form. I don't know what your up in arms about. Merely implying your argument is weak isn't an unnecessary reply.

How does a 50 times gap between base and SS make my argument "weak"?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Or Goku decided to go with his own plan. The Elder Kaioshin didn't told him to not go SS because it won't be necessary (he even bothered to explain that they should do it after fusing), only that even without it Goku & Gohan's fusion "should be plenty". Vegeta is weaker than Gohan, so I can see Goku wanting to go SS just in case.

Rou Kaioshin said that base Gokhan should be plenty because the Potara are amazing, not because Gohan is amazing, and while a base Saiyan can turn Super Saiyan, an Ultimate Saiyan can't. So, he was talking about regular base Gokhan, not Ultimate Gokhan.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Rou Kaioshin also told Goku that he didn't have to turn Super Saiyan though. So, going Super Saiyan wasn't in the plan anymore.

Or Goku decided to go with his own plan. The Elder Kaioshin didn't told him to not go SS because it won't be necessary (he even bothered to explain that they should do it after fusing), only that even without it Goku & Gohan's fusion "should be plenty". Vegeta is weaker than Gohan, so I can see Goku wanting to go SS just in case.

You were implying base Vegetto could be stronger than Buuhan in base since he didn't know he would be as strong as he was. I'm stating that's a weak argument since there is a 50 times gap between his base and Ssj form. I don't know what your up in arms about. Merely implying your argument is weak isn't an unnecessary reply.

How does a 50 times gap between base and SS make my argument "weak"?

It's a massive gap. Just because Vegetto is surprised at his power doesn't mean he can against Buu in a form 50 times weaker than his current form.

[hleV]

Rou Kaioshin said that base Gokhan should be plenty because the Potara are amazing, not because Gohan is amazing, and while a base Saiyan can turn Super Saiyan, an Ultimate Saiyan can't. So, he was talking about regular base Gokhan, not Ultimate Gokhan.

And Goku knew that, how?

It's a massive gap. Just because Vegetto is surprised at his power doesn't mean he can against Buu in a form 50 times weaker than his current form.

Vegetto didn't realize his power. He went SS. These two facts are not related to Boo's power and how it compares to Vegetto's. So how is saying that Vegetto's base might as well be stronger than Boo a weak argument only because as a SS, Vegetto is 50x stronger than in base?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Rou Kaioshin said that base Gokhan should be plenty because the Potara are amazing, not because Gohan is amazing, and while a base Saiyan can turn Super Saiyan, an Ultimate Saiyan can't. So, he was talking about regular base Gokhan, not Ultimate Gokhan.

And Goku knew that, how?

He saw that Gohan powered-up instead of transforming after the ritual? Besides, Rou Kaioshin told him that base should be enough because of the Potara. Super Saiyan was already out of the plan. But that was for Gotenks Boo, and Gohan Boo is stronger, so Goku judged that he should use Super Saiyan after all, just in case. And since Vegetto didn't power-down, the most likely scenario is that base Vegetto is weaker, equal, or slightly stronger than Gohan Boo, meaning not strong enough to humiliate him, piss him off, and make him absorb him. The chances for base Vegetto to be on a whole different level than Boo are low (but not zero).

[hleV]

I'm waiting for a decent explanation for why would Vegetto bother to revert to base. I mean... I probably wouldn't, because my focus would be on how to save my friends.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'm waiting for a decent explanation for why would Vegetto bother to revert to base. I mean... I probably wouldn't.

It's one of these:

a) He wasn't strong enough to beat Boo.
b) He wasn't strong enough to humiliate Boo.
c) He just didn't bother because it would be the same.

I pick choice b), you pick choice c). We are cool.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I'm waiting for a decent explanation for why would Vegetto bother to revert to base. I mean... I probably wouldn't, because my focus would be on how to save my friends.

He's a Saiyan. A challenge would preferable for him.