The height conundrum

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Obviously Imperfect is huge, no denying that. However, I think his shortest form might be when he absorbs 17. His bulkiness just gives off an illusion that he looks massive. That is why Imperfect is bigger than he looks is because he is so skinny.

Perfect Cell, I'm guessing, is around Piccolo's height (7'-7'4"). That is not including his antennae. Maybe a little under 7 feet. I think Goku's Super Saiyan hair covers the fact that he is utterly dwarfed by Cell.

Trunks roughly comes up to Perfect Cell's shoulders or maybe just a little under. Considering he is around Goku's height, I'd wager Cell is around 7 feet tall.

Personally, I feel Toriyama is the best source to look at. Most of the characters are his creations, and he's usually more consistent with them in title pages rather than the regular panels. Still, some characters aren't lucky enough to get that treatment, so you are forced to use the regular panels. Perfect Cell isn't such a case though. I have Cell's dome at 6'10" based on this title page where him and Goku are standing next to each other (after shifting the picture a bit to get them on the same footing):



Also, I don't think there is any reason to assume Cell shrinks after absorbing 17. If anything, he grows. I know Vegeta is much shorter than Piccolo, but comparing his second stage to Super Vegeta still has him dwarfing the prince more than Piccolo ever does:

[RandomGuy96]

Holy crap. I always thought that this shot was an anime error; Cell appears to be almost twice Vegeta's size, despite Cell being in the background and Vegeta standing on a rock.

Also:



This image is from way back in the first page, but I just recently noticed something: Gotenks is significantly taller than Goten or Trunks. That makes me curious: how tall is Vegetto? He didn't seem as completely dwarfed by Buuhan as he should have been been, so perhaps he's similar to Gotenks in that he's a lot taller than either of his fusees? On the other end, Kibitoshin looks shorter than Kibito himself.

[MysticVegeta]

With the anime, they had different artist for different episodes, so of course there's bound to be some inconsistencies.

Bravo comparing Toriyama's work to Yo! Son Goku and his friends Return!!

[TheDevilsCorpse]

This image is from way back in the first page, but I just recently noticed something: Gotenks is significantly taller than Goten or Trunks. That makes me curious: how tall is Vegetto? He didn't seem as completely dwarfed by Buuhan as he should have been been, so perhaps he's similar to Gotenks in that he's a lot taller than either of his fusees? On the other end, Kibitoshin looks shorter than Kibito himself.

It might just be a Metamorean fusion thing, but Gogeta isn't much taller than Goku in this sheet (and Vegeta is much too big), so who knows.

[dbgtFO]

Just throwing another height chart out there, though it's only from DBZ M3:

Spoiler:

[MysticVegeta]

According to DB Online, Saiyans have long lives, so perhaps they keep growing?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

According to DB Online, Saiyans have long lives, so perhaps they keep growing?

Hmm? That's not really from DBO, and it's also probably not meant to be the way yo are interpreting it.

If wer'e going to include all sources, then Saiyans have the same lifespan as Earthlings, but they have a much longer period of being in their prime. They physically stay child sized until they reach that period (seems to be between 15 and 18) as part of an evolutionary trait they developed for self preservation. They then undergo a growth spurt into their adult body that is suited for fighting and stay that way until they exit their prime. This seems to happen somewhere around around age 60-70, and then start to rapidly deteriorate to an elderly state. Saiyans, being a warrior race, apparently prefer dying on the battlefield, rather than letting this occur.

[RandomGuy96]

Amond is way more massive than I had suspected. A lot of characters are. On the other hand, Gohan's official height surprised me; he always seemed taller for whatever reason.

[Patrick]

Amond is way more massive than I had suspected. A lot of characters are. On the other hand, Gohan's official height surprised me; he always seemed taller for whatever reason.

Yeah, same here. I knew he was taller than Goku from the opening sequence in the Buu arc, but I thought the difference was like an inch or two, not a mere centimeter.

This is the shot I'm talking about for the record. I had to screencap it myself since I couldn't find the exact shot anywhere else.

Spoiler:

EDIT: Forgot this quote.

And in that shot, Goku's proportions lead me to believe he is under 5'9". However, during the tournament arc with Ma Jr, Piccolo looks smaller than even Ten! Both Ten and Piccolo lock up with Goku early on in the fight (Ten also has a manga chapter title locking up with Son), and he towers over Goku, yet Piccolo Jr looks incredibly smaller. I would say he looks to be around Yamcha's height proportions.

Well, I think there's an explanation for Piccolo Jr being shorter in DB, he's only 3 years old. Sure, Namekians probably grow differently than humans(and Saiyans), but I'd imagine in the 5-year gap between DB and DBZ that Piccolo grew quite a bit, even if he doesn't grow much after that.

[Attitudefan]

Just throwing another height chart out there, though it's only from DBZ M3:

Spoiler:

THANK YOU!! THis proves that the heights of Goku is much smaller than Ten and Yamcha (at least the early staff at Toei and Toriyama back in the late '80's and '90's). Even here, it matches up with what other studios were producing, and therefore, Goku cannot be 175-176 cm (~5'9")!! He is only up to Ten's shoulders; Ten is huge, much taller back in the day compared to what I think they make him these days. This is a problem though, since I would say most of their heights from early on are probably what is "canon" vs what was redone in the later years of production. I mean, these heights seem to be fairly consistent through to before the Buu arc. After that, this is where things get really fishy. Goku is not at Ten's shoulders, and waaaay below Yamcha's eye level. However, for people to claim Goku grew, I cannot say so since Ten, Bulma and Yamcha all shrunk incredibly so!! There is no explanation in-universe at least for that. I think It will remain that Goku is short. However, in this height chart, Krillin seems a little too small... or maybe not, since he looks about that height when near Raditz; Ten and Raditz I feel are the same height, and if that is so, the shots of Krillin with Raditz should be approximately correct. Even when he was with Goku, his height is about the same as it was in (the anime at least) with Krillin during episode 2 of DBZ.

Sorry if this is worded a little funny, but the picture you showed makes me very excited. I feel it backs up my statements that Goku is below 5'9".

EDIT: Just noticed Piccolo, and holy, he is HUUUUGE!!! he looks easily 7'4" there.

Amond is way more massive than I had suspected. A lot of characters are. On the other hand, Gohan's official height surprised me; he always seemed taller for whatever reason.

Gohan did seem much taller didn't he? Ten seemed way shorter and I feel Krillin can be a bit of a surprise.

Well, I think there's an explanation for Piccolo Jr being shorter in DB, he's only 3 years old. Sure, Namekians probably grow differently than humans(and Saiyans), but I'd imagine in the 5-year gap between DB and DBZ that Piccolo grew quite a bit, even if he doesn't grow much after that.

I am perfectly fine with this and I wouldn't be surprised if it is intentional since Toriyama specifically (I think... well it is pretty obvious none-the-less in the manga) states how old he is. The time gap shows that Piccolo's character design changed a bit too. He looks much more mature and less angst-y.

This image is from way back in the first page, but I just recently noticed something: Gotenks is significantly taller than Goten or Trunks. That makes me curious: how tall is Vegetto? He didn't seem as completely dwarfed by Buuhan as he should have been been, so perhaps he's similar to Gotenks in that he's a lot taller than either of his fusees? On the other end, Kibitoshin looks shorter than Kibito himself.

It might just be a Metamorean fusion thing, but Gogeta isn't much taller than Goku in this sheet (and Vegeta is much too big), so who knows.

See, this is where things get weird. Vegeta being way too tall for example.

I don't see why fusion wouldn't change height since a failed fusion can cause the uses to shrink. Vegetto is taller than Gohan for sure. He looked to be close to Buuhan. Images anyone?

With the anime, they had different artist for different episodes, so of course there's bound to be some inconsistencies.

Bravo comparing Toriyama's work to Yo! Son Goku and his friends Return!!

Sarcasm? I think it is important to use the anime and the manga since they use the same sources----Toriyama. Many of the height charts started out from original sketchwork by Toriyama and then the chief animator (the one I trust the most is Maeda since he wanted to be exactly as Toriyama, out of respect). The height charts seemed to be used from the original Dragonball up until the Buu arc as far as I'm aware since they reference art from Toriyama and Maeda. After that, that is when things get weird (such as Bulma and Vegeta's heights to name a few), and the heights get inconsistent. However, if you see the Movie 12 height chart, it is actually really close to what it is in Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return: Vegeta being just a few cm shorter.

Please contribute, MysticVegeta, using the manga instead of snarky remarks if you are not okay with my method. You really don't help the discussion. Please and thank you.

[MysticVegeta]

Did I hurt your feelings?

Comparing works from the 80s and 90s to work from 2008 is illogical. They aren't going to go by charts, drawing it exact, not an inch more. You're just being really nitpicky.

You should redraw Dragon Ball, and measure every little panel to make sure the characters stay exactly the same size.

It's almost impossible to keep it that consistent. Considering Toriyama was overworked, and he had to release new stuff weekly.

[Attitudefan]

Did I hurt your feelings?

Comparing works from the 80s and 90s to work from 2008 is illogical. They aren't going to go by charts, drawing it exact, not an inch more. You're just being really nitpicky.

You should redraw Dragon Ball, and measure every little panel to make sure the characters stay exactly the same size.

It's almost impossible to keep it that consistent. Considering Toriyama was overworked, and he had to release new stuff weekly.

No, you didn't but you are acting very immature and want to derail this topic by calling me out. I have been around the block a few times. Just... add to the conversation without trying to pick a fight. Arguments and debates are not necessarily fights, bro.

Sure it is nit-picky but that is the fun of it in my eyes. It gives something new to talk about. It's less nit-picky than power level threads dude.

Ah, but that is the thing. As I have looked into this, it seems the franchise has been more consistent than you think over long periods of time. I'm actually quite surprised. Sure comparing new to old may seem redundant, but really, it is not. While things do change, the more it stays the same.

Like I said earlier, even in one of the games, the developers recognized some of the discrepancies of how big Vegeta became and actually has a taller game model from his later arcs compared to previously!

[MysticVegeta]

Perhaps Toriyama didn't want Vegeta to stay short?

Humans grow a few inches when in space, so maybe the Saiyans (Maybe every main character too) has grown due to high levels of gravity, and sometimes, no level of gravity like humans do?

Plus, Like I said, I think Saiyans keep growing.

[VegettoEX]

Did I hurt your feelings?

I chose to overlook your first snarky comment in the thread, given the fact that I already issued a free warning in another thread, but this will be it.

Please review the forum rules that you agreed to prior to registration. You seem to like talking about other communities, but this is not those other communities. This is a very specific one with a very specific rule set, and you agreed to these rules (twice), so let me be clear:

Contribute awesome things in an awesome, polite, and respectful way as you engage with your fellow fans. Enough with the nonsense. Further sarcastic/dismissive/inconsequential posts will result in strikes against your account. Multiple strikes result in a temporary ban (which affects access to the entirety of the website, which includes the forum and the podcast), and further strikes beyond that will result in a permanent ban.

[MysticVegeta]

Lol. Okay. I already read the rules.

I'm just trying to lighten this place up a bit. It's far too serious, especially with that Grammar Nazi stuff I read.

But if that's the way this place works, I'll just have to get use to it.

[mister yummy]

Perhaps Toriyama didn't want Vegeta to stay short?

Humans grow a few inches when in space, so maybe the Saiyans (Maybe every main character too) has grown due to high levels of gravity, and sometimes, no level of gravity like humans do?

Plus, Like I said, I think Saiyans keep growing.

That's what I said 2 pages ago Like their body resists the gravity, and this causes stretching when the gravity is turned off.

[Patrick]

On a different note, Piccolo Daimao's height is listed at 250cm. That is a little over 8'2, and good god he looks it in the anime!

This is him standing in-front of Piano. I think this is where he looks his absolute biggest, even if he's only standing next to a rather short character.

Spoiler:

Goku is freaking tossing him and he barely looks half as tall as Daimao's arms!

Spoiler:

And he's grabbing Tien by his head, which is impressive if you consider the fact Tien is fairly tall at around 6'2.

Spoiler:

I never realized how tall he was until now, but christ, he wouldn't even be able to fit in most houses without crouching, much less get under a door.

[Attitudefan]

Yeah, he's like 2 Piccolo Jrs stacked on top of each other.

I was looking throgh the manga and all the screenshots from the anime have the exact same height proportions as the manga. Goku is just above Ten's shoulders etc. and surprisingly this remains consistent through until the Android arc. That is when things start to get wonky.

Literally, everything remains fairly consistent until this point in the manga, including the art style. By the Android arc however, it almost seems as if a new artist is drawing the panels in the manga. Very strange.

[UltimateHammerBro]

Doesn't anyone think that the first time Piccolo Daimao appears he's too big to be 2,50 m tall?
I mean, I don't know how tall Mai is, but I suppose that she's similar to an average woman, and look how big he is in comparison.



And then he seems to have shrunk dramatically, maybe to Tenshinhan's size?

[RandomGuy96]

Does anyone else think that Piccolo really doesn't look his official 7'6 height most of the time? At most, sometimes he looks a little under 7 feet.

And like I said, King Piccolo often looks bigger than he is. At 8'2 when young and 8'6 when old, he'd be only a head taller than his son, so roughly Super Buu's height (or shorter, because sometimes Piccolo only comes up to his shoulders). Does he really look like that to you? To me he looks far more massive, especially when he's old. But sometimes he doesn't, so I suppose it's just another case of the art exaggerating the differences. Which makes it all the weirder that Piccolo Jr always looks too small.

Gohan did seem much taller didn't he? Ten seemed way shorter and I feel Krillin can be a bit of a surprise.

Based on how much taller he seemed than Vegeta and the females, as well as how he occasionally looked noticeably taller than his dad, I had first guessed that teen Gohan was a six footer, or maybe 5'10-5'11. Ten just seems too big; often his height advantage on Goku is more pronounced than the supposedly 7'6 Piccolo's.