Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The Toriko anime fails at the basics: its WAAAY too inferior to the original work (the manga).

I agree that it's inferior, but not WAAAY too inferior.

[rereboy]

How do you go about doing that? If you watch and buy the product constantly, doesn't it send a mixed message if you also call it "mediocre?"

Why do you assume I buy it? For example, if Kai was an actual remake, and a good one, I would watch all of it it and most likely buy all of it. Since its crap and not even a real remake, I didn't. Its the same thing with any other product. Typically I only support good stuff.

I agree that it's inferior, but not WAAAY too inferior.

Obviously, I don't expect anyone to agree with me but, IMO, its quite obviously much inferior in all regards. Pacing, action, story, art, everything is a pretty big step down from the manga. Yes, even the story since they completely changed the ending from the manga to something much worse at every level.

[ABED]

I didn't literally mean you.

[ParkerAL]

I haven't watched the Toriko anime, but if the quality of the animation frequently reaches these levels, it's safe to say it being inferior to the manga is an understatement.

[dbboxkaifan]

The animation of Toriko, One Piece and Dragon Ball Z don't look very good but the worst offender for me is One Piece because it's so bad that it was actually one of the reasons I stopped watching it.

Toriko is like One Piece but catching Pocket Monsters (watched the plot and didn't like it), and Saint Seiya's a mix of Dragon Ball Z with Greek mythology (still waiting for a proper English release).

Now that Dragon Ball Kai: Majin Boo arc episodes are being broadcast it's visible that Toei Animation's best efforts went for the OP/ED/Eyecatches (the only pieces in HD) the rest is mediocre. Don't know what the hell is up with the average VGM score they gave to it, but if they hired the House of Mario to compose a soundtrack for it they'd have done a far superior job.

[rereboy]

I didn't literally mean you.

Well, my answer serves as a a general answer for anyone. If a product or company are clearly being medicore or worse than that in your opinion, don't support them as much or don't support them at all. Support others who deserve it.

Also, being complacent with a state of a company or product only because its natural for the company to want higher profits ultimately serves no purpose since the state of the company or product will just get worse in the future and even the company itself will eventually lose money once the state or the product gets really bad.

I haven't watched the Toriko anime, but if the quality of the animation frequently reaches these levels, it's safe to say it being inferior to the manga is an understatement.

Exactly. Good video. Its pretty sad when a couple of panels from the manga in those fights is enough to tell how much better the manga is.

[ABED]

I didn't literally mean you.

Well, my answer serves as a a general answer for anyone. If a product or company are clearly being medicore or worse than that in your opinion, don't support them as much or don't support them at all. Support others who deserve it.

Also, being complacent with a state of a company or product only because its natural for the company to want higher profits ultimately serves no purpose since the state of the company or product will just get worse in the future and even the company itself will eventually lose money once the state or the product gets really bad.

I haven't watched the Toriko anime, but if the quality of the animation frequently reaches these levels, it's safe to say it being inferior to the manga is an understatement.

Exactly. Good video. Its pretty sad when a couple of panels from the manga in those fights is enough to tell how much better the manga is.

I meant it as a general answer as well. My point was that your use of terms like "support" and "demand" are vague. I would think that not buying is the best way to show one's lack of support.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Obviously, I don't expect anyone to agree with me but, IMO, its quite obviously much inferior in all regards. Pacing, action, story, art, everything is a pretty big step down from the manga. Yes, even the story since they completely changed the ending from the manga to something much worse at every level.

Ignoring the last episodes of the Cooking Festival arc, I think they did a fine job, except for the heavy censoring. Tina was only an important character in the IGO arc, but even then, she was "just there" without doing anything important, and didn't really affect the story. The pacing seemed fine to me, it didn't have much filler episodes, and it didn't drag the story on DBZ or OP levels. I also liked the BGM, the opening songs, and the voice actors. They could have done a far better job with it though.

As far as art goes, Rin was better drawn in the anime IMO. In the manga, she looks weird to me.

I haven't watched the Toriko anime, but if the quality of the animation frequently reaches these levels, it's safe to say it being inferior to the manga is an understatement.

These parts are from the last arc of the anime, which was done poorly because they were in a hurry to end it quickly so that DBKai would begin. From what I recall at least, the previous arcs weren't that badly made, or at least, it was occasional. But I could be wrong, since I'm not good at observing animation.

[JulieYBM]

Quite a few talented animators did work on the last ten or so episodes of Toriko. They just did a small number of action cuts. The majority of the animation was outsourced to Wanpack and other big sub-contracting studios. These episodes would often use forty different key animators and were allowed a small number of cels. Toriko was a failed franchise at this point, so it's no surprise so few drawings and talent were allowed to it.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Quite a few talented animators did work on the last ten or so episodes of Toriko. They just did a small number of action cuts. The majority of the animation was outsourced to Wanpack and other big sub-contracting studios. These episodes would often use forty different key animators and were allowed a small number of cels. Toriko was a failed franchise at this point, so it's no surprise so few drawings and talent were allowed to it.

Talented or not, Toriko's fight with Starjun was fucked up. His techniques didn't even appear to be correct.

[Mewzard]

Quite a few talented animators did work on the last ten or so episodes of Toriko. They just did a small number of action cuts. The majority of the animation was outsourced to Wanpack and other big sub-contracting studios. These episodes would often use forty different key animators and were allowed a small number of cels. Toriko was a failed franchise at this point, so it's no surprise so few drawings and talent were allowed to it.

Toriko's still high quality and successful in the one area that matters: The manga. Good art, great fights, fun story, amazing creatures and settings.

But yeah, Toei has always been cheap. Ever watch the Fist of the North Star anime? Wow, sometimes that anime hit some legendary levels of godawful animation. The censoring and making Kenshiro look more like Bruce Lee didn't help (He's clearly supposed to be Mad Max with Explode People Kung Fu).

[JulieYBM]

The comic isn't the one area that matters. It could be a piece of crap and it wouldn't really matter if the cartoon or some other spin-off was good. I'd actually say the comic is pretty terrible looking from the few post-timeskip chapters I gave a gander to. It reminded me a lot of Ebisawa Yukio and Uchiyama Masayuki's worst cuts in Dragon Ball Z.

Quite a few talented animators did work on the last ten or so episodes of Toriko. They just did a small number of action cuts. The majority of the animation was outsourced to Wanpack and other big sub-contracting studios. These episodes would often use forty different key animators and were allowed a small number of cels. Toriko was a failed franchise at this point, so it's no surprise so few drawings and talent were allowed to it.

Talented or not, Toriko's fight with Starjun was fucked up. His techniques didn't even appear to be correct.

Which parts are you speaking of? Toriko versus Starjun got Shida Naotoshi for a few cuts. Quite a few of the final fights received talented animators, although their work is pretty quick.

[Mewzard]

The comic isn't the one area that matters. It could be a piece of crap and it wouldn't really matter if the cartoon or some other spin-off was good. I'd actually say the comic is pretty terrible looking from the few post-timeskip chapters I gave a gander to. It reminded me a lot of Ebisawa Yukio and Uchiyama Masayuki's worst cuts in Dragon Ball Z.

Talented or not, Toriko's fight with Starjun was fucked up. His techniques didn't even appear to be correct.

Which parts are you speaking of? Toriko versus Starjun got Shida Naotoshi for a few cuts. Quite a few of the final fights received talented animators, although their work is pretty quick.

Well, when the creator cares about and works hard on a series, it's a good thing because they'll want to keep at it. Also, Toriko is in my top 10 Jump Manga list of all time, and the best manga of the last 10 years in Jump in my opinion.

As for the fight, he means the actual fight itself got fucked up, not the animation. Toriko vs Starjun was a great fight (I'd argue it's better than almost any fight in Dragon Ball), but they changed a lot of it from what I recall.

If they ever do continue the anime, after Kai perhaps, then they'd have to make a fair number of changes to get the plot to where it could follow the manga's story again.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Which parts are you speaking of? Toriko versus Starjun got Shida Naotoshi for a few cuts. Quite a few of the final fights received talented animators, although their work is pretty quick.

I'm talking about episode 142, Toriko's attacks were wrong. Toriko used Nail Gun, Knife Nail Gun, Fork Kugi Punch, and Leg 50-Ren Knife without even touching Starjun, which is literally like punching & kicking someone without touching him (the hits were successful). They even made Fork Kugi Punch & Leg 50-Ren Knife as if they work like the Nail Gun, while they actually work like Kugi Punch & Leg Kugi Kick respectively. Same about the anime-only Leg 50-Ren Fork, which works like the Leg 50-Ren Knife. They even made another new anime-only technique, Nail Kugi Punch (which means Nail Nail Punch...), and it works exactly like the Nail Gun. Not sure if this has to do with the animator or the director, but whoever was responsible for these shouldn't have been involved.

[Basaku]

I've always been one of the "realistic" viewers. I won't be bothered much if one episode has different style of shading, amount of detail, color variations and whether the characters are even perfectly 'on model'. But if they have less realistic look and appear more cartoony/rounded/less sharp, I immediately dislike the difference. Uchiyama makes it like that for me in Dragon Ball, and Masahiro Ando in Sailor Moon (last column in this comparsion pic; one of Stars season's animation supervisors Michiaki Sugimoto was particularly heavily off-model, making the characters appear much more adult, and even that didn't bother me because his style was still 'realistic').

So yeah, not as much bothered but different in quality of animation as much as straying too far from either the established realistic or cartoony style of animation.

[Chuquita]

I've always been one of the "realistic" viewers. I won't be bothered much if one episode has different style of shading, amount of detail, color variations and whether the characters are even perfectly 'on model'. But if they have less realistic look and appear more cartoony/rounded/less sharp, I immediately dislike the difference. Uchiyama makes it like that for me in Dragon Ball, and Masahiro Ando in Sailor Moon (last column in this comparsion pic; one of Stars season's animation supervisors Michiaki Sugimoto was particularly heavily off-model, making the characters appear much more adult, and even that didn't bother me because his style was still 'realistic').

So yeah, not as much bothered but different in quality of animation as much as straying too far from either the established realistic or cartoony style of animation.

Just looking at that chart; I wish Funi (or someone who isn't Aniplex due to their pricing model) would license-rescue Sailor Moon. That was my gateway anime; I'd buy official dvd's of it in a heartbeat if they were to put them out at a reasonable price.

[JulieYBM]

Aniplex wouldn't license Toei Animation, they only put out titles they create themselves.

[Chuquita]

Good to know, thank you.

[rereboy]

Ignoring the last episodes of the Cooking Festival arc, I think they did a fine job, except for the heavy censoring. Tina was only an important character in the IGO arc, but even then, she was "just there" without doing anything important, and didn't really affect the story. The pacing seemed fine to me, it didn't have much filler episodes, and it didn't drag the story on DBZ or OP levels. I also liked the BGM, the opening songs, and the voice actors. They could have done a far better job with it though.

As far as art goes, Rin was better drawn in the anime IMO. In the manga, she looks weird to me.

Its way too inferior in general. Sometimes it did a good job, but considering all of the anime, the good and the bad of it, and comparing it to the manga, its simply way too inferior. The last episodes of the cooking festival arc just happen to be borderline unwatchable and the worst of the anime, meaning that they are individually worse than the average that is still way too inferior to the manga.

I'd actually say the comic is pretty terrible looking from the few post-timeskip chapters I gave a gander to.

Judging a manga from just a few chapters is always a bad idea. Not to mention that a manga can be an incredible and amazing manga for a lot of people and nothing special to others. That's normal, people have different opinions and preferences. However, that's not what was being discussed at all. What was being discussed was the quality of the anime adaptation which is an entirely different issue than liking the original manga. And I think is pretty undeniable that the anime, on average, in much worse looking.

Which parts are you speaking of? Toriko versus Starjun got Shida Naotoshi for a few cuts. Quite a few of the final fights received talented animators, although their work is pretty quick.

Just because there are names of talented people involved in something, it doesn't mean that the result will be anything good. What matters is the result. As long as the result was good, all the people involved could be people completely unknown for all I care.

[coola]

Personally, i don`t think Toei is that bad, especially when you compare it to western cartoons made at that time (Captain N, sometimes they didn`t even draw background) of course i would love, if every anime looked as great as Madoka Magica https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVi_fs2oz3E i realise, it must be very expensive, to make such well drawn and animated scene, like Homura vs Mami