James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Just because Bardock is a low-class in the upper ranks, but still not a mid-class, doesn't mean that he can't be a Super Saiyan.
Except he was shown to be as well as cruel.Just because Chilled is an ancestor to Freeza & Cold doesn't mean that he is abnormally strong.
Just because Ooishi has worked with Toriyama doesn't mean that she knows everything about his views.
It means he's never acknowledged it, referenced it or tied it in to his story just like most material considered non canon and unlike the Tarble special or Battle of Gods which actually were his stories.Just because Toriyama never mentioned EoB doesn't make it non-canon.
And here is the family tree in Chozenshuu #1:
By that logic, Raditz is an elite.Bullza wrote:If power level determines rank then he shouldn't be low class. He explained clearly that if their power level increased then they'd rank up. Bardocks power level increased and yet Toriyama practically dismissed. Toriyama said nothing about Super Saiyans not counting or mentioned Bardock being a Super Saiyan.
He isn't abnormally strong compared to Freeza & Cold. He bled from low-class base Bardock's surprise punch, and got killed by SS Bardock. Cold is at least somewhere around 3.000.000, and Freeza is at 120.000.000, and even stronger as Mecha Freeza. Compared to these two, Chilled is trash.Except he was shown to be as well as cruel.
Except that there is not an official canon. This isn't Star Wars, this is Dragon Ball. They just create stories, and Toriyama accepts them if he wants to.If she were developing a canon story then Toriyama would have been aware of it.
You are not Toriyama to know what he thinks. Just because he hasn't talked about it doesn't mean that he doesn't acknowledge it. And even if he doesn't acknowledge it (which is something you can't know), it doesn't matter until he contradicts it with something new. So, until then, I'm gonna stick with Shueisha's opinion on this.It means he's never acknowledged it, referenced it or tied it in to his story just like most material considered non canon and unlike the Tarble special or Battle of Gods which actually were his stories.
True, but the anime is a different story in a different world. Coola has even appeared in GT.That also includes Kuriza so I'd bet that in a anime guidebook Cooler would have been included just the same.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I don't follow. Raditz' power level never increased and he never went Super Saiyan. He was weak and that's why he was a low class. Bardock was not weak once he was a Super Saiyan.By that logic, Raditz is an elite.
Why does he have to be compared to others? He was abnormally strong in his own right and possibly comparable to Frieza in his first form anyway. Just because he bled doesn't mean anything Krillin cut own Frieza's tail and made him bleed.He isn't abnormally strong compared to Freeza & Cold.
Compared to Frieza then King Cold is trash, he's like a 60th as strong as him.Cold is at least somewhere around 3.000.000, and Freeza is at 120.000.000, and even stronger as Mecha Freeza. Compared to these two, Chilled is trash.
In the press statement for Battle of Gods Toei said the movie was an official part of the story and not a spin off or side story which is essentially a fancy way of saying it's canon.Except that there is not an official canon. This isn't Star Wars, this is Dragon Ball. They just create stories, and Toriyama accepts them if he wants to.
Odd he made reference to Dragon Ball Minus in his interview, made references to Battle of Gods in interviews and tied it in to the story on multiple occasions, tied the Tarble special into the story and yet Episode of Bardock doesn't so much as get a mention.You are not Toriyama to know what he thinks. Just because he hasn't talked about it doesn't mean that he doesn't acknowledge it. And even if he doesn't acknowledge it (which is something you can't know), it doesn't matter until he contradicts it with something new.
Neko Majin is obviously not canon at all and yet Kuriza is tied to the same family tree along with Chilled so him really being there doesn't mean anything at all.True, but the anime is a different story in a different world. Coola has even appeared in GT.
Raditz's full power is at 15.000 (as an Oozaru), stronger than the elite Nappa.Bullza wrote:I don't follow. Raditz' power level never increased and he never went Super Saiyan. He was weak and that's why he was a low class. Bardock was not weak once he was a Super Saiyan.
Chilled is abnormally strong by your definition. You don't know if he falls in Toriyama's definition of abnormally strong.Why does he have to be compared to others? He was abnormally strong in his own right and possibly comparable to Freeza in his first form anyway.
Kuririn used Kienzan. Very different case, and you know it.Just because he bled doesn't mean anything Krillin cut own Freeza's tail and made him bleed.
If Cold is abnormal, Freeza is even more abnormal. If Chilled isn't mentioned, it either means that he doesn't exist, or that he isn't abnormally strong for his race standards. And the fact that he bled from base Bardock's surprise punch means that the latter is as likely as the first.Compared to Freeza then King Cold is trash, he's like a 60th as strong as him.
We still don't have an established canon.In the press statement for Battle of Gods Toei said the movie was an official part of the story and not a spin off or side story which is essentially a fancy way of saying it's canon.
Still doesn't mean anything.Odd he made reference to Dragon Ball Minus in his interview, made references to Battle of Gods in interviews and tied it in to the story on multiple occasions, tied the Tarble special into the story and yet Episode of Bardock doesn't so much as get a mention.
PtEtSS can't even fit in the continuity to begin with.He hasn't talked about the Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyan special either so does that mean that doesn't mean it can't be canon either?
Neko Majin is stated to take place in a parallel world from the manga. This doesn't mean that the characters don't exist in the normal world. Plus, there is a "?" in the family tree for Kureeza, questioning his existence. There is no such thing for Chilled.Neko Majin is obviously not canon at all and yet Kuriza is tied to the same family tree along with Chilled so him really being there doesn't mean anything at all.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Your logic is accurate, I agree. Taking the saiyan's base it would be the most objective way to rank a saiyan.Raditz's full power is at 15.000 (as an Oozaru), stronger than the elite Nappa.
Which is why I'm saying that transformations don't count to the classes.
Vegeta was going by the legend, not the real thing.Low Tone G wrote:But a Super Saiyan to be on several thousands at base for me it's very hard to believe, when Goku needed to be at least 90.000 when he earned the potential to become SSJ according to Vegeta.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Yeah, but the transformation needs also a relative high battle power, when a saiyan was ranked to be low-class, how can he have the potential to become a super saiyan which is the second most powerful transformation a saiyan could ever achieve. The weakest is Oozaru, and strongest is SSJ-God.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Vegeta was going by the legend, not the real thing.Low Tone G wrote:But a Super Saiyan to be on several thousands at base for me it's very hard to believe, when Goku needed to be at least 90.000 when he earned the potential to become SSJ according to Vegeta.
Bardock was born a low-class, and got strong enough to become one of the strongest low-class warriors. I guess that would make him stronger than normal, for his standards.Low Tone G wrote:Yeah, but the transformation needs also a relative high battle power, when a saiyan was ranked to be low-class, how can he have the potential to become a super saiyan which is the second most powerful transformation a saiyan could ever achieve. The weakest is Oozaru, and strongest is SSJ-God.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
So do you think that the saiyan's own strandards decide what is that high battle power, which allows a saiyan to upgrade via huge anger? Goku was also born low-class, but he really had enormously high power, of course comparing to prior saiyan standards.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Bardock was born a low-class, and got strong enough to become one of the strongest low-class warriors. I guess that would make him stronger than normal, for his standards.Low Tone G wrote:Yeah, but the transformation needs also a relative high battle power, when a saiyan was ranked to be low-class, how can he have the potential to become a super saiyan which is the second most powerful transformation a saiyan could ever achieve. The weakest is Oozaru, and strongest is SSJ-God.
Raditz's full power is at 15.000 (as an Oozaru), stronger than the elite Nappa.
Chilled is abnormally strong by your definition. You don't know if he falls in Toriyama's definition of abnormally strong.
Kuririn used Kienzan. Very different case, and you know it.
If Cold is abnormal, Freeza is even more abnormal. If Chilled isn't mentioned, it either means that he doesn't exist, or that he isn't abnormally strong for his race standards. And the fact that he bled from base Bardock's surprise punch means that the latter is as likely as the first.
We still don't have an established canon.
Still doesn't mean anything.
This doesn't mean that the characters don't exist in the normal world. Plus, there is a "?" in the family tree for Kureeza, questioning his existence. There is no such thing for Chilled.
Yeah, but the transformation needs also a relative high battle power
Yes, we do. The manga says that Raditz is a low-class, while Nappa is an elite.Bullza wrote:But we don't know that Nappa is a class above Raditz anyway.
Which is why only base counts for the ranks.Not all Saiyans can become Super Saiyan though.
That's purely your opinion.Abnormally strong is abnormally. It doesn't have to be compared to anyone, he can blow up planets and was going to kill innocents so he is abnormally strong and cruel and Toriyama still didn't include him.
Of course it does. Chilled got pissed off, meaning that it hurt. Punching someone isn't the same as cutting him with a blade.It doesn't matter his power level was a fraction what Freeza's was and he still cut his tail so why Bardock hitting Chilled when his guard is down doesn't mean anything.
Freeza & Beerus barely got any damage though, unlike Chilled. The reason he wasn't included could have easily been because Chilled is a weakling.Him not existing makes more sense. Toriyama could have given an explanation that Chilled was a little different but just answered the question as though he didn't exist. Piccolo drop kicked Freeza into the water with a fraction of his power. SSJ2 Vegeta punched Beerus and hurt him a little because he was taken by surprise.
What are you talking about? EoB, the movies, the anime, GT, DBO, the video games, etc are all official DB stories.Aka canon and non canon. I've never seen anything about EoB being official.
So far, nothing he had been asked in Q&As was related to anything about EoB, or anything that could have been related to it, except for Bardock's BP in EoB, which he gave his answer.It means a lot when after all this time he hasn't referenced EoB but material he has worked on does get referenced. Pretty obvious as to why.
Onio could have existed in the manga, but instead of surviving, he could have died with Planet Vegeta in the normal world.Possible but unlikely, there was a Saiyan called Onio even though all Saiyans were supposed to be killed except for three not including Tarble who was just some embarrassment. It's just a joke manga, it's not supposed to real mean anything.
I guess it would say something about Freeza being a descendant of Chilled.I also don't get the arrows because it goes from Freeza to Chilled.
Kureeza is stated to be Freeza's son, there is no question about that. The only thing questionable is his existence.I don't know what the "?" is there for unless it's questioning his link to Freeza.
Bardock was very strong for a low-class, actually.Yet Bardock is just a low class weakling
That was because Vegeta didn't have a tranquil heart. Stated in the manga.Vegeta was plenty angry fighting Goku and he never turned Super Saiyan.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Does it? Well Toriyama said they're of equal status so who knows what that means. Doesn't change anything either way.Yes, we do. The manga says that Raditz is a low-class, while Nappa is an elite.
Which is why only base counts for the ranks.
That's purely your opinion.
Of course it does. Chilled got pissed off, meaning that it hurt. Punching someone isn't the same as cutting him with a blade.
Freeza & Beerus barely got any damage though, unlike Chilled.
What are you talking about? EoB, the movies, the anime, GT, DBO, the video games, etc are all official DB stories.
Onio could have existed in the manga, but instead of surviving, he could have died with Planet Vegeta in the normal world.
Bardock was very strong for a low-class, actually.
That was because Vegeta didn't have a tranquil heart. Stated in the manga.
Yeah, that's very likely, Bardock was included in the manga, yet his story became this year way different than we saw it in the TV special. Anyway, there was something that stated that Bardock's level was at 10.000 in the TV special. That was stated in the movie, or it was just an assumption?Maybe. All this about them having existed in the main world is speculative anyway. Freeza was never said to have a son afterall. Even if there were a Chilled it doesn't mean the events of EoB had to take place.
They are already stated to be in a different class, so class =/= status.Bullza wrote:Does it? Well Toriyama said they're of equal status so who knows what that means. Doesn't change anything either way.
It's an educated guess. Vegeta isn't a mid-class in Namek arc with a BP of 24.000, or 30.000 later.You just made that up. Power level determines rank. As they can all go Oozaru then power levels all correlate it wouldn't make sense for Raditz to be an elite just by turning ape because then if Vegeta turned ape he'd be...an ultra elite?
Depends on your standards. Compared to Mr. Satan, Appule is abnormally strong. Compared to Freeza, Appule is trash. Toriyama was comparing Cold & Freeza to the rest of their race. So, Cold & Freeza are abnormally strong compared to their ancestors, including Chilled.It should be anyone's opinion that some dude who can blow up an entire planet is abnormally strong. (the H-word) is strong by human standars and people like Chilled is abnormally strong.
But we don't have huge BPs or ki.I'd bleed all the same if you punched or cut me with a knife. I'd be pissed too if someone just suddenly punched me in the face and I bled, of course it'd hurt.
But Chilled got even more hurt than Freeza, implying that the gap between Bardock & Chilled is smaller than the gap between Piccolo (over 1.000.000) and Freeza (60.000.000)It was a bit of blood around the mouth and then he proceeded to literally stomp him he was barely damaged anymore. Anyone can get hurt when there guard is down.
We have no idea what the official history is. We know that the manga & BoG are in it, but we don't know what else is in. Heck, we don't even know if by official history they mean the manga or anime continuity.They're official works but not a part of the official history that's been told by Toriyama. The movies and their events aren't part of the official history.
That's true. Even the Chozenshuu aren't sure if Kureeza exists.Maybe. All this about them having existed in the main world is speculative anyway.
I find it very unlikely that that's what they had in their mind, given that they had an entire section about EoB in the same book.Even if there were a Chilled it doesn't mean the events of EoB had to take place.
Goku transformed when he was at 3.000.000 because that's when he got angry enough. The BP condition is just "high battle power". We don't know how high the BP has to be, but we know that Bardock had a high BP for his own standards.It'd be a power level of 3,999 at best that's dirt. That would count as the high battle power needed to become a Super Saiyan when Goku was at 3,000,000 is laughable. A Super Saiyan who wouldn't even give a supressed Freeza in his first form a run for his money? Not very legendary.
Goku told Freeza that he transformed because he had a tranquil heart, and Freeza then said "So that's why Vegeta never transformed, he didn't have a tranquil heart", or something like that.What part specifically?
Not pure heart, tranquil heart. Vegeta didn't have a tranquil heart in Namek, so I guess he started having one after he started getting softer in Earth. And for Bardock, I guess it's thanks to Gine.Krillin said a pure heart was needed and Vegeta said he had one but it was just pure evil. Bardock wasn't pure on either the good or bad side.
In the TV Special, it was stated that Bardock's BP was close to 10.000.Low Tone G wrote:there was something that stated that Bardock's level was at 10.000 in the TV special. That was stated in the movie, or it was just an assumption?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
That would definitely put him a mid-class, isn't it? But Toriyama said he isn't able to become a mid-class, or he wasn't till his death.(?) Toriyama also said in the interview that there is only a one possibility to see Bardock in action, and that is his advatures in that past... What does that mean? We could see one of Bardock's mission in the DB-, that was also in the past, but not in that distant past which was revealed in E.o.B.Low Tone G wrote:
there was something that stated that Bardock's level was at 10.000 in the TV special. That was stated in the movie, or it was just an assumption?
In the TV Special, it was stated that Bardock's BP was close to 10.000.
For it's pretty obvious that within the Freeza's race there were only 2 known mutants, King Cold and Freeza. So any other representatives of this race weren't mutants. In other words, If King Cold must have a parent, that surely wasn't that strong and cruel, that would definitely mean other ancestors weren't that strong, and they possibly were stuck in their first forms, so I assume the other forms of Freeza and his after were result of the mutation. Then the issue is really clear for me, at least. Even if Chilled doesn't make a part of the DB history the Freeza's race power was really high but Cold and Freeza were even stronger than them. So the assumption of Chilled is Freeza's ancestor isn't at all baseless.About how many of Freeza’s race are there? Are they quite thriving, with a big population?
Freeza is what you might call a mutated life-form. Strictly speaking, Freeza’s father is a mutant with an abnormally high battle power. And, born from his father alone4, still in strong possession of the mutant traits, was Freeza.
Accordingly, even saying “Freeza’s race”, these two are the only ones who possess an abnormal [level of] battle power and cruelty.
It's an educated guess. Vegeta isn't a mid-class in Namek arc with a BP of 24.000, or 30.000 later.
Toriyama was comparing Cold & Freeza to the rest of their race.
But we don't have huge BPs or ki.
But Chilled got even more hurt than Freeza, implying that the gap between Bardock & Chilled is smaller than the gap between Piccolo (over 1.000.000) and Freeza (60.000.000)
We have no idea what the official history is. We know that the manga & BoG are in it, but we don't know what else is in. Heck, we don't even know if by official history they mean the manga or anime continuity.
Not pure heart, tranquil heart. Vegeta didn't have a tranquil heart in Namek, so I guess he started having one after he started getting softer in Earth. And for Bardock, I guess it's thanks to Gine.
That would definitely put him a mid-class, isn't it? But Toriyama said he isn't able to become a mid-class, or he wasn't till his death.(?)
If King Cold must have a parent, that surely wasn't that strong and cruel, that would definitely mean other ancestors weren't that strong, and they possibly were stuck in their first forms, so I assume the other forms of Freeza and his after were result of the mutation.
There was something that implied or directly stated that the Freeza's race typically has 4 forms in every cases? AT referred Cold and Freeza as they are special even considering their race. Chilled didn't even tried to transform into a second or third form. We can explain it that he didn't want to do it, that maybe he didn't have any form to transform in. If Cold and Freeza were mutants, it's safe to assume this mutation generated them some physical changes, aka transformations.Bullza wrote:That would definitely put him a mid-class, isn't it? But Toriyama said he isn't able to become a mid-class, or he wasn't till his death.(?)
It'd probably put him around the Elite class level actually. The TV special isn't canon so that 10,000 power level doesn't mean squat really.
If King Cold must have a parent, that surely wasn't that strong and cruel, that would definitely mean other ancestors weren't that strong, and they possibly were stuck in their first forms, so I assume the other forms of Freeza and his after were result of the mutation.
I dont know if that would make sense really, That first form appearance was just a form used to limit his power (same with the second and third), his final form is supposed to be his real form so wouldn't any others of his race resemble that? King Cold didn't, he looked like Freeza in his second form but maybe King Cold was in his second form but then maybe he wasn't because his power was large enough it needed supression forms.
