Is Chi-Chi a bad mother (and wife)?

[TheGmGoken]

and plenty of people choose their children's profession in America, and it's still wrong, and harmful. Instead of picking a career that's enjoyable and meaningful, their occupations get chosen for them. In some cases, it works out. That doesn't make it right. I don't come at this from a cultural perspective, it's about individuals. If morality is about making your life the best and happiest it can, how does someone else determining your career make sense? How would that make Chichi a good mother?

The manga had a cover page on which Gohan debut saying he wants to be a scholar. He seemed happy with it. Notice when Gohan wasn't happy with ChiChi he yelled. You don't think its right. Honestly if the child happy with it then it's OK. Gohan was obviously happy with it. Even as a grown man he became one. He could been a scientist like Bulma. Hey if someone choose someone career and they don't rise against it or think its OK then the area obviously finds it OK.

No, it doesn't in that culture, because morality isn't subjective

Yes it is. Some cultures it's OK to be given a job. That's how it works. Is it not right for a culture to ban people for eating pork? I mean it's your stomach after all.

In that case, explain in greater detail. You gave me a weak one sentence analogy without any context.

What are talking about? The TTGL thing. Kamina dad took him to the surface and it's dangerous. The father died and Kamina manage to go back underground.

many times would you say Goku "abandoned his family to train"?

Wouldn't say abandoned but he does take an extended leave most likely to train. Especially in other places like King Kai planet. He did abandoned them for Oob most likely for at least a good month

Mine puts Chi-Chi to shame if that says anything.

....don't tell her I said that...please...

Your wife or kids

[dbboxkaifan]

Until the Freeza arc, they didn't know about the Namekian race. In fact the race they believed Piccolo and his father were part of was the Demon Clan.

Yeah, true.

You only think it's wrong cause you're not used to it.

So since you think it's correct for parents to assume what's best for their child then it's also A-OK for them to choose who they're going to marry? *sigh*

Chichi's not the worst mother/wife, but she's not good either. She's so-so.

Exactly.

To the person who originally brought up this point, are you claiming Chichi is a racist? God I hope you're kidding.

Well, I probably went a bit far with that but aside from that, Chichi isn't a wonderful mother as a few are praising her to be.

TTGL means Tengon Toppa Gurren Lagann. Aka the greatest anime series in the world. How was I suppose to know you never seen it? The reference was fatherhood. Was his dad a bad dad for putting his son in danger?

Greatest? No, it's just your opinion.

[TheGmGoken]

So since you think it's correct for parents to assume what's best for their child then it's also A-OK for them to choose who they're going to marry? *sigh*

Chi Chi never did that. When did I say it was OK. I said in certain AREAS. Not to mention there's more of a rebel against arrange marriages than there is with arrange Jobs. Since most doesn't have an issue with it.

Greatest? No, it's just your opinion.

Did that need to be said? Its obviously my opinion. I'm not writing IMO every time I express my opinion. When it's clearly my opinion. Just like when I say Goten is the best fictional character ever. It's my opinion. Kinda obvious. Did not need to be pointed out.

[dbboxkaifan]

Once Chichi was aware that Videl was rich she was keen on making Gohan marrying her, so even if Gohan at a later point in life didn't like her any more it'd be a problem for both of them.

Just let them choose their future rather than thinking what's best for them.

[TheGmGoken]

Once Chichi was aware that Videl was rich she was keen on making Gohan marrying her, so even if Gohan at a later point in life didn't like her any more it'd be a problem for both of them.

Just let them choose their future rather than thinking what's best for them.

Yes she wanted Gohan to marry Video cause she was rich. But she didn't force him too. Videl was already falling for Gohan. Also Gohan one his debut. The cover page said he wanted to be a scholar.

[FortuneSSJ]

No, shes a good a mother. A chicken one. She worries too much about Gohan but she jus wants the best to him.
What kind of mother would rather her son to be fighting aliens instead studying?! If this question was about fathers , Goku and Vegeta would be the answer though.

As a wife, she's not bad. It takes a lot of patience (and love) to be Goku's wife. But sometimes she just cares about Gohan.
Like in the end of Saiyan Saga, Goku was in the ground with all his bones broken and she just ignores and jumps over him to get Gohan. To me, it would be divorce right there.

[ABED]

He did abandoned them for Oob most likely for at least a good month

I wouldn't call a month "abandonment", but maybe we're just playing semantics. Either way, it wasn't that long, and his kids were grown up.

What are talking about? The TTGL thing. Kamina dad took him to the surface and it's dangerous. The father died and Kamina manage to go back underground.

I don't know what that means. Are they people who live underground? How does that apply to Chichi?

Yes it is. Some cultures it's OK to be given a job. That's how it works. Is it not right for a culture to ban people for eating pork? I mean it's your stomach after all.

A DB forum isn't the best place to debate moral relativism, but just because some culture says so, so what? What do others' judgment trump your's? It's not right for a culture to ban eating pork. Your lifespan is infinitesimally small compared to the timespan of the universe, so why is it okay for others to dictate what you eat and what you do for a living? In some cultures honor killings are okay, not all cultures have good rules.

[KentalSSJ6]

No, shes a good a mother. A chicken one. She worries too much about Gohan but she jus wants the best to him.
What kind of mother would rather her son to be fighting aliens instead studying?! If this question was about fathers , Goku and Vegeta would be the answer though.

As a wife, she's not bad. It takes a lot of patience (and love) to be Goku's wife. But sometimes she just cares about Gohan.
Like in the end of Saiyan Saga, Goku was in the ground with all his bones broken and she just ignores and jumps over him to get Gohan. To me, it would be divorce right there.

Well, to be fair id expect my wife to do the same. Id be much more worried about my son's well being over my own. It's a parental instinct.

[TheGmGoken]

I wouldn't call a month "abandonment", but maybe we're just playing semantics. Either way, it wasn't that long, and his kids were grown up

Goten wasn't grown at that point. He was 16 or 17. Bout same age as Gohan in Boo arc. If we include GT Goku was gone for 5 years. That's abandonment.

I don't know what that means. Are they people who live underground? How does that apply to Chichi

Yup they live underground. I'm asking you if that's dad a bad parent. Chi Chi never put Gohan in danger. She's overprotective. If I was Chi Chi husband I would prefer if she checked on Gohan before me(even ignored me) too.

DB forum isn't the best place to debate moral relativism, but just because some culture says so, so what? What do others' judgment trump your's? It's not right for a culture to ban eating pork.

I'm sayin this because in that culture it's OK. You disagree because you're used to eating pork freely your whole life. To them it's just natural and they think it's a good thing.

expect my wife to do the same. Id be much more worried about my son's well being over my own. It's a parental instinct.

Sounds like my mom....

[ABED]

Yes, Goten's a teenager, but he's more than capable of taking care of himself which is a parent's job.

Yup they live underground. I'm asking you if that's dad a bad parent.

I still don't know the context, you haven't given me anything other than he took someone to the surface.

I'm sayin this because in that culture it's OK. You disagree because you're used to eating pork freely your whole life. To them it's just natural and they think it's a good thing.

It doesn't matter if it's okay in the culture. Why do other people's judgments trump another's? Why should Chichi have the right to make such an important decision for him?

[FortuneSSJ]

Well, to be fair id expect my wife to do the same. Id be much more worried about my son's well being over my own. It's a parental instinct.

I would worry more about my son too, but I wouldnt like being ignored by my wife.

[TheGmGoken]

Yes, Goten's a teenager, but he's more than capable of taking care of himself which is a parent's job.

He still a teenager. Not a grown man. I could take care myself now if I wanted. Can my father leave me for a month?

I still don't know the context, you haven't given me anything other than he took someone to the surface.

No I did. I said there was beastmen and gunmen up there. Which are dangerous. I said that the first post

It doesn't matter if it's okay in the culture. Why do other people's judgments trump another's? Why should Chichi have the right to make such an important decision for him?

It does matter as that's their opinions on matter. I didn't say it trumps yours. You're saying it's wrong and it doesn't matter if its ok in culture. Who makes what you say right? Once again. The manga has a cover page on the chapter he debut on saying he wants to be a scholar. For a we know Chi Chu could have made him a Scientists but Gohan loved learning that he wanted to be a scholar.

[ABED]

My dad was in the military, and left when I was much younger for far longer stretches at a time than a month. A father's job is to prepare his child to be able to live in the world and take care of themselves. Mission accomplished with Goten by that point.

No I did. I said there was beastmen and gunmen up there. Which are dangerous. I said that the first post

That doesn't give me a lot to go on. Why are they going up there? What/why are they leaving? Just by your posts alone, I would say that I need more information because just the mere fact that something is potentially dangerous doesn't make it unparental.

It does matter as that's their opinions on matter. I didn't say it trumps yours. You're saying it's wrong and it doesn't matter if its ok in culture. Who makes what you say right? Once again. The manga has a cover page on the chapter he debut on saying he wants to be a scholar. For a we know Chi Chu could have made him a Scientists but Gohan loved learning that he wanted to be a scholar.

It doesn't matter, culture, race, tribe, etc. don't trump the individual because there are only individuals. You don't get more rights as a group. If Gohan wants to be a scholar because that's his choice, fine, but this feels like Chichi's doing. I know there was a similar conversation in another thread but I have a hard time believing that a four year old knows they want to be a scholar and there was no one pushing that decision on them. Chichi is a classic tiger mom, so it's not a big leap.

Who am I to say? Who are they? It's not their life, not their choice to make. Why should individuals not have a right to determine the course of their own life?

[TheGmGoken]

My dad was in the military, and left when I was much younger for far longer stretches at a time than a month. A father's job is to prepare his child to be able to live in the world and take care of themselves. Mission accomplished with Goten by that poin

That's way different than leaving with some Mohawk Indian(African?) Boy. That's him job. That's protection of the country. Goku left because he wanted someone strong to fight. That's totally different. How can you refute my point using my mom and then go do the same thing but with your Appa

That doesn't give me a lot to go on. Why are they going up there? What/why are they leaving? Just by your posts alone, I would say that I need more information because just the mere fact that something is potentially dangerous doesn't make it unparental.

They went cause they felt like it. Beastmen kills people. Kamina Appa dies. I said this repeatedly.

doesn't matter, culture, race, tribe, etc. don't trump the individual because there are only individuals

Except they are not the only individuals...

You don't get more rights as a group.

Rights within that culture or areas.

Gohan wants to be a scholar because that's his choice, fine, but this feels like Chichi's doing.

We don't know what exactly Gohan is studying for. It could be farming for all we know. Gohan could just love learning so he wanted to be a scholar in which Chi Chi gave him lots of books to study.

I know there was a similar conversation in another thread but I have a hard time believing that a four year old knows they want to be a scholar and there was no one pushing that decision on them.

It's fictional for a reason. Not even realistic fiction.......
Toriyama even said suspended yourself when watching or reading DB. Don't think at all. Something along them lines. You're thinking way to deep into this.

It's not their life, not their choice to make. Why should individuals not have a right to determine the course of their own life?

Except the cover page hint it was Gohan who like learning

[ss4songoku]

Please don't assume to know why I hold a certain POV, people's ideas aren't determined solely by their upbringing

It's true though. You just not used to the overall idea. You was taught or learned that's its your life.

I'm not a multiculturalist or a moral relativist, just because a culture/person does something

It does in that culture or area.

there's a good chance I didn't see it, so that should factor into how you wrote your response so we could have a constructive dialog.

There's a chance you didn't see any reference I could had made.

It's not true, that's not why I hold that idea, and plenty of people choose their children's profession in America, and it's still wrong, and harmful. Instead of picking a career that's enjoyable and meaningful, their occupations get chosen for them. In some cases, it works out. That doesn't make it right. I don't come at this from a cultural perspective, it's about individuals. If morality is about making your life the best and happiest it can, how does someone else determining your career make sense? How would that make Chichi a good mother?

Chichi's a Tiger Mom, ergo she's not a great mother.

No, it doesn't in that culture, because morality isn't subjective.

In that case, explain in greater detail. You gave me a weak one sentence analogy without any context.

ss4songoku, how many times would you say Goku "abandoned his family to train"?

too many, even once is too much. Why did he stay with the yardratians as long as he did and why at the end of z did he leave his wife and family for years to train oob?

[Dbzk1999]

Just let them choose their future rather than thinking what's best for them.

So I guess with that logic the child could become a serial killer or rapist or drug dealer I mean you're letting them choose their future see how that statement can backfire

[ABED]

Just let them choose their future rather than thinking what's best for them.

So I guess with that logic the child could become a serial killer or rapist or drug dealer I mean you're letting them choose their future see how that statement can backfire

That's a false alternative. It's not between choosing their livelihood or letting them become a killer. This goes beyond Reductio ad absurdum.

too many, even once is too much. Why did he stay with the yardratians as long as he did and why at the end of z did he leave his wife and family for years to train oob?

He stayed on Yardrat because it took him a single year to learn to teleport, which by the way comes in REALLY handy. We don't know how long he leaves Chichi and his kids to train with Uub.

That's way different than leaving with some Mohawk Indian(African?) Boy. That's him job. That's protection of the country. Goku left because he wanted someone strong to fight. That's totally different. How can you refute my point using my mom and then go do the same thing but with your Appa

I get that it's his job, but it's not different, he was still gone, and for far longer. We don't know how long Goku was gone with Uub, and he can teleport.

Except they are not the only individuals...

Not even sure what this means. You don't give up natural rights when joining a group.

They went cause they felt like it. Beastmen kills people. Kamina Appa dies. I said this repeatedly.

Continuing to say the same thing doesn't make it any clearer. I haven't seen it so I can't comment.

It's fictional for a reason. Not even realistic fiction.......
Toriyama even said suspended yourself when watching or reading DB. Don't think at all. Something along them lines. You're thinking way to deep into this.

Please don't do that. You're attempting to deflate the argument by saying I think too much on it, yet you've continued this conversation with me for several pages.

[TheGmGoken]

get that it's his job, but it's not different, he was still gone, and for far longer. We don't know how long Goku was gone with Uub, and he can teleport.

It very different. He's protecting country and thus protecting you. Goku left cause he wants to fight someone strong .

Not even sure what this means. You don't give up natural rights when joining a group

You said they're the only people.

Continuing to say the same thing doesn't make it any clearer. I haven't seen it so I can't comment

Nutshell because that's pretty all info we're given.
Bad Guys who kill on surface
Father takes kid to surface where the bad guys kill
Father dies

Please don't do that. You're attempting to deflate the argument by saying I think too much on it, yet you've continued this conversation with me for several pages

I defended Chi Chi with cover page from manga. You said its unrealistic. In a series like DB......Max from Pokemon was a genius and he was also very young. Close to Gohan age.

[ABED]

get that it's his job, but it's not different, he was still gone, and for far longer. We don't know how long Goku was gone with Uub, and he can teleport.

It very different. He's protecting country and thus protecting you. Goku left cause he wants to fight someone strong .

Not even sure what this means. You don't give up natural rights when joining a group

You said they're the only people.

Continuing to say the same thing doesn't make it any clearer. I haven't seen it so I can't comment

Nutshell because that's pretty all info we're given.
Bad Guys who kill on surface
Father takes kid to surface where the bad guys kill
Father dies

Please don't do that. You're attempting to deflate the argument by saying I think too much on it, yet you've continued this conversation with me for several pages

I defended Chi Chi with cover page from manga. You said its unrealistic. In a series like DB......Max from Pokemon was a genius and he was also very young. Close to Gohan age.

It's not different, gone is gone, and if my dad needed to go for like a month like say on a hunting trip, it wouldn't be abandonment, more like an extended vacation. I could deal at Goten's age.

Not even sure where you got "they're the only people" from.

You dont' have to keep giving me those bits of info, it doesn't explain it any better or help your point. There are nuances that I won't get from a synopsis which I would need in order to converse with you about that show.

I know about the cover page, I'm simply saying that given Chichi's character, Toriyama seems to imply that she chose his career path for him. The fact that he "wants" to or ends up agreeing with her is irrelevant.

[TheGmGoken]

1. I'm pretty sure leaving to protect your country and your son is different than "LEAVING WITH SOME RANDOM PERSON CAUSE I WANT SOMEONE STRONG TO FIGHT! " If we even count GT Goku left for 5 years. Hell ignoring Gt Goku doesn't look like the guy to check on his family (7 years without saying hi. King Kai was with him.)

2. Really. You need more info? TTGL didn't give much on his dad. He died before the series. Surface is dangerous with killers. The Appa took his son there. The dad took his son to a dangerous death place. Kamina later dies there as well

3. Toriyama didn't imply that. Gohan says he wants to be one. So Chi Chi shoves Books in his life. Maybe she giving Gohan want he wants in a overly way.