Why did Toriyama bother writing Dragon Ball Z?

[thatdbzguy]

He continued to make the Saiyan Arc because he saw Superman and was like "damn, I wanna write a story like that!"

Same reason why he made the Cell Arc, except this time he watched Terminator.

And don't forget he watched Cinderella and got the idea for the buu arc.
And the first arc was Journey to the West..

I'm starting to notice a pattern.

Look like Toriyama isn't quite as inventive as you guys thought.

[TheGmGoken]

Nothing. but to me saying something sucks is not criticism. Most people that bash DBZ in favour of their own anime they obsess over usually hate on it without any real depiction of what count for flaws and how it could have been handled better. They just say its sucks or through arbitary ad hominims to defame the series without any solid background. Theres a lot of things that get on my nerves with DBZ's story telling but it means nothing unless you can actually identify what it is intellectually.

I've seen plenty of people properly criticize DBZ. I've seen people criticize the one-dimensional characters, repetitive plot, and concepts that were poorly executed. Don't believe me? Just Google these things. You'll see for yourself.

Just Google it. Naruto hate came up. I only saw two website where only a small(3 max) complain about Dbz. So please provide a source. As what you told us to do has been debunk. Here's the 3 websites I'm talking about. As I provide sources

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/dbz-f ... 203460971/


http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... f=7&t=4571


This was the first image I found

Spoiler:

If you Google Dbz sucks its pretty damn obvious what coming up. I Google One Piece and Attack on Titan sucks. Same shit popped up.

Look like Toriyama isn't quite as inventive as you guys thought.

Hey Jaco was original! Though it was crap

[kei17]

thatdbzguy, why do you ignore my very answer to your question and continue talking about unnecessarily controversial "facts" without any concrete reason and evidence? You are just creating yet another shitstorm which I can hardly call a contribution to this community.

Toriyama didn't end the manga at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai because there was no commercial reason for companies involved to let him do so. He was not allowed to make his own decision to end it. He had no artistic choice. That's how shonen manga series work. Period.

We have nothing more to talk about this.

[Insertclevername]

He continued to make the Saiyan Arc because he saw Superman and was like "damn, I wanna write a story like that!"

Same reason why he made the Cell Arc, except this time he watched Terminator.

And don't forget he watched Cinderella and got the idea for the buu arc.
And the first arc was Journey to the West..

I'm starting to notice a pattern.

Look like Toriyama isn't quite as inventive as you guys thought.

I don't see how either of those cross the line from inspiration/reference to rip off. Star Wars is very similar in regards to how it handles it's inspirations (it also derives from much more) and I'd doubt any would call that series less inventive.

[thatdbzguy]

Save us the trouble and provide some sources, eh? That'd be cool. Thanks!

Yeah, I agree with this. I have never ever, ever heard of someone badmouthed DBZ. thatdbzguy, it seems to me that you are the only one to claim this. I really think that at this point you are gonna have to cite some sources to back up your claims from now on. It will only save you from embarrassment. 99.9% of your posts has been heavily criticizing Dragon Ball Z, despite, ironically, your username proving otherwise.

My sources ate various comments on YouTube, Funnyjunk, and even Kanzenshuu itself.

[JulieYBM]

Nothing wrong with making trail mix if you make a damned fine trail mix.

[Doctor.]

I don't see how the deletion of the Saiyajin and Freeza arcs would benefit the overall quality and/or popularity of the manga? Being these the two arcs that introduce some of the most iconic characters in the series and some of the most iconic moments, with the Super Saiyajin transformation. I understand that you might feel this way, because Z deviates from the original DB concept, but it's still a great story on its own right.

And I don't understand why people on this site hate the Android arc. What exactly is the problem? Introduces a great character with Mirai Trunks, brings a certain degree of plot "complexity" (for DB standards, at least) with the different timelines, a good villain with Cell, excellent moments with Gohan's transformation and Goku's sacrifice, and a great ending. Seems pretty good to me.

[Ajay]

My sources ate various comments on YouTube, Funnyjunk, and even Kanzenshuu itself.

I bet they were real tasty too! No, for real, actual links and/or screenshots would be preferable. This is no different to the 'various sources say x and y' nonsense we had issues with in the first place.

[rereboy]

My sources ate various comments on YouTube, Funnyjunk, and even Kanzenshuu itself.

In other words, you will not provide specific sources and will continue to just refer to these opinions only vaguely but also state them as they are some kind of fact, which is something you always do in your posts, like for example: "Toriyama's writing went way downhill with Z, and things like the Cell saga ended up being complete embarrassments. Nowadays, the series is constantly made fun of and ripped apart, even by the fans, thanks to Z screwing up so many things."

Btw, opinions on youtube? Yikes...

[TheGmGoken]

Save us the trouble and provide some sources, eh? That'd be cool. Thanks!

Yeah, I agree with this. I have never ever, ever heard of someone badmouthed DBZ. thatdbzguy, it seems to me that you are the only one to claim this. I really think that at this point you are gonna have to cite some sources to back up your claims from now on. It will only save you from embarrassment. 99.9% of your posts has been heavily criticizing Dragon Ball Z, despite, ironically, your username proving otherwise.

My sources ate various comments on YouTube, Funnyjunk, and even Kanzenshuu itself.

Funnyjunk is your source? This place here: http://www.funnyjunk.com

Don't want to be ride but. Your source is FunnyJunk that dbz sucks. You're basing your opinions from that place!?

[sintzu]

I've seen plenty of people properly criticize DBZ. I've seen people criticize the one-dimensional characters, repetitive plot, and concepts that were poorly executed. Don't believe me? Just Google these things. You'll see for yourself.

You can google fanboy hate against any series and you'll find it

I'm starting to notice a pattern.

With what we know about the next movie i think it's safe to say that toriyama has watched and liked the dark knight

[Doctor.]

I've seen plenty of people properly criticize DBZ. I've seen people criticize the one-dimensional characters, repetitive plot, and concepts that were poorly executed. Don't believe me? Just Google these things. You'll see for yourself.

Those things can be applied to the original Dragon Ball as well. And that argument is faulty, you can search anything "--- sucks" and hate will appear. I have never seen someone who likes DB but hates DBZ, or vice-versa.

I've seen people who like DB better, and I've seen people who like DBZ better.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Save us the trouble and provide some sources, eh? That'd be cool. Thanks!

Yeah, I agree with this. I have never ever, ever heard of someone badmouthed DBZ. thatdbzguy, it seems to me that you are the only one to claim this. I really think that at this point you are gonna have to cite some sources to back up your claims from now on. It will only save you from embarrassment. 99.9% of your posts has been heavily criticizing Dragon Ball Z, despite, ironically, your username proving otherwise.

My sources ate various comments on YouTube, Funnyjunk, and even Kanzenshuu itself.

These are your sources? Well, snap, these are great places to back up your claims! No, seriously though, you picked these sites to prove your points that DBZ is terrible? There are many places far better than these crap, if you know what I mean. For instance, ToonZone is a great place to check out people's opinions other than Kanzenshuu.

[Kid Buu]

Okay, so I did some google research on people hating DBZ, and this is what I found:

http://www.themanime.org/viewreview.php?id=245
http://www.nihonreview.com/anime/dragonball-z/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2008/04/10/ ... z-part-one

The first two reviews barely felt like reviews, though.

[sintzu]

here was no commercial reason for companies involved to let him do so. He was not allowed to make his own decision to end it. He had no artistic choice. That's how shonen manga series work.

How could they not let him or whoever end THIER manga ?

[kei17]

With what we know about the next movie i think it's safe to say that toriyama has watched and liked the dark knight

That's actually what the original scriptwriter of BoG did and Toriyama is the one who killed his ideas almost completely and rewrote everything.

[thatdbzguy]

And I don't understand why people on this site hate the Android arc. What exactly is the problem? Introduces a great character with Mirai Trunks, brings a certain degree of plot "complexity" (for DB standards, at least) with the different timelines, a good villain with Cell, excellent moments with Gohan's transformation and Goku's sacrifice, and a great ending. Seems pretty good to me.

Trunks was a worthless Mary Sue, the attempt at trying to make DBZ more complex failed hard, Cell is the worst villain I have ever seen in any piece of fiction, Gohan's transformation was forced by OOC behavior, Goku sacrificing himself could have been completely prevented, and the ending failed to set Gohan up as a dependable hero.

[sintzu]

With what we know about the next movie i think it's safe to say that toriyama has watched and liked the dark knight

That's actually what the original scriptwriter of BoG did and Toriyama is the one who killed his ideas almost completely and rewrote everything.

Hopefully he changed his mind and we get something like that

It doesn't have to be a dark,depressing movie but something more serious along the line of the Z part of the manga

ThatDbzGuy :

If you hate the Z part of the story so much then why is your name and avatar based on it ?

[B]

the ending failed to set Gohan up as a dependable hero.

That wasn't what it was trying to do.

[Luke Groundwalker]

What do you mean "why did he bother"? Maybe Toriyama had a story to tell...considering at the end of the Piccolo arc, he teases the readers with Roshi telling them that the story isn't over in a seemingly end-point. This suggests Toriyama had the intent to continue.

There is evidence that there was plans for Toriyama to end the series at certain points and the editors forcing him to change this. But those are just initial plans, and aren't important to the bigger picture of the Dragonball product.

Combined with Toriyama's creative effort, I'm pretty positive he did Dragonball to make loads of money, which he did not only in his manga but the anime and the merchandise. He still does till this day, meaning Toriyama is set for life.

Really "What ifs?" aren't important. "What Is," is important I feel. In this case, Dragonball is a complete series with two anime adaptations, an anime sequel, various movies, various video games, etc.
_________________

Now I will address the aspect of the critical nature of the series, that being my critique aka my opinion before anyone thinks I'm using a message board for anything otherwise.... Actually I would've hated for Toriyama to stop at the Piccolo arc, considering how good both the Saiyan and Freeza arcs were. Both of those arcs are two of the best arcs in the ENTIRE series next to the Piccolo arc, and I'd be damned that I'm not satisfied with the product because of that.

With that being said, after Freeza Dragonball did kind of went in a slump quality-wise. Of course a lot of people's favorite moments of the series come from the Android and Boo arcs, but I felt in general Dragonball didn't need them. The Saiyan arc and Freeza arc I felt were necessary for one reason: The ascension of adulthood by Goku. We never got to see this and with the introduction of his son and his Saiyan origins closing it up with Freeza's defeat, it really brings Goku's character and journey to a full circle, making the ultimate sacrifice for the entire universe from Freeza's evil.

Android and Boo felt tacked on. They were fun arcs in their own ways, but I felt when it came to bringing the series together, the only great thing about those arcs is the ascension of Gohan developing to be legitimately the successor to Goku. At the end of the Android arc, Gohan became more powerful than his father, which allowed him to take his place as Earth's protector in a very solid character arc.

As a whole Dragonball is a solid, fun shonen manga but it is a bit overrated by the fans, and this is coming from someone who absolutely loves the series. People cite Dragonball as the best shonen ever but I feel it's been outclassed by so many, including it's successor One Piece. Dragonball did pave the way for such manga though, so it deserves recognition historically.