What if Goku had lost to Kid Buu

[Low Tone G]

Sure if you want to be a troll but if not then the burden of proof is on you not me.

No, it's on you. Prove that what he's saying isn't completely bullshit, as all the evidence would indicate.

Even if Gohan was only an SSJ/SSJ2 originally, I do think Gotenks couldn't just palying around even if Gohan really was an Ultimate. Goten and Trunks doesn't really train after Buu saga, so they haven't grown any stronger. Gohan also does nothing. Goku and Vegeta continued training harder than even after Buu saga. Goku wanted to surpass his son Gohan, because Gohan didn't want to replace him.

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Gohan wasn't Ultimate and Gotenks didn't have SS3, so they appeared to be weak. In actuality, they're so strong that Goku never has any hope of ever getting close to them (except if he gets everyone to do the god ritual again).

Maybe Goku hasn't surpass any of the half-blooded ones, but Gotenks can be that dumb to try to distract Beerus with his SSJ, but he was defeated as an instant so he didn't have a chance to display his full power. Gohan was also drunken(I don't want to argue that it makes him weaker, but still his reflexed are worse being dizzy.)

No, he's not that dumb. Goten and Trunks both acknowledged Gohan's superiority, and Gotenks went SS3 immediately in his second fight against Super Buu, now knowing how powerful he is. This isn't even a matter of being dumb. You'd have to assume Gotenks was blind AND an amnesiac AND couldn't sense ki (none of which are true).

I think the things don't go like that is world of Dragon Ball. Gotenks was supposed to be a gag character(it's suprising but Toriyama is a gag-manga artist). Yeah, Gotenks is strong, the third strongest character in the Buu saga. But Gotenks is a Kid in BOG, just like he was in the Buu saga. He doesn't take too much responsability in dangerous situations. He is very cocky. He could also sense Super Buu's strength very well in the Buu saga, still began to distract Buu with his Base, and some flashy techniques. It wouldn't have been so surprising if he started threatening Beerus with his Base(for me at least). And we must remember that the movie is a promoting one, as the old fans to remember their favoruite characters(and yes, I'm sure Gotenks should have fans too).

Of course Gotenks is not dumb, but a he's child. They were just 7 and 8 years old kids in Buu saga, and they were really mature comparing to that age.

The trailers don't prove anything like Gohan wasn't Ultimate from the beginnig. It the trailer Goku was shown in the space to yell Kamehameha before firing the blast towards Beerus, still in the movie(and not even in the extended edition of it) Goku doesn't yell any words before that blast. And of course that balst wasn't as huge like in the movie. Not mention that Goku comes in the trailer and says something like this: "Ossu(Hy)! Would fight me a bit?" In the movie, when he challenges Beerus, he didn't formulate himself like that(not even in Japenese).

The egg which was turned into a sand was yellowish in colour, and in the movie it's gray.

The trailers added multiple times phrases and had some altered scenes which don't appear in the actual movie. It's enough safe to think Gohan SSJ was just another trick for fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK0OuAohf8I Watch it!

[Hugo Boss]

Why just not assume Super Saiyan was Vegeta, Gohan and Gotenks' most powerful forms in the movie?

[sintzu]

Why just not assume Super Saiyan was Vegeta, Gohan and Gotenks' most powerful form in the movie?

Why would ssj1 be more powerful then 2,3 and Mystic ?

[Low Tone G]

Why just not assume Super Saiyan was Vegeta, Gohan and Gotenks' most powerful form in the movie?

Why would ssj1 be more powerful then 2,3 and Mystic ?

I think we could assume that too, and why not, Toriyama said that SSJ2 &3 are just powered up variations of basic Super Saiyan. Maybe it can be applied for other Saiyans not only Goku(who has God power absorbed).

But I don't think SSJ Gohan would be any stronger than his Mystic/Ultimate self.

[sintzu]

I think we could assume that too, and why not.

If you mean in terms of balancing power,speed and Ki consuming then sure but in terms of power alone it isn't.

[RandomGuy96]

Why just not assume Super Saiyan was Vegeta, Gohan and Gotenks' most powerful form in the movie?

Because we know those forms are inferior to other forms.

I think the things don't go like that is world of Dragon Ball. Gotenks was supposed to be a gag character(it's suprising but Toriyama is a gag-manga artist). Yeah, Gotenks is strong, the third strongest character in the Buu saga. But Gotenks is a Kid in BOG, just like he was in the Buu saga. He doesn't take too much responsability in dangerous situations. He is very cocky. He could also sense Super Buu's strength very well in the Buu saga, still began to distract Buu with his Base, and some flashy techniques. It wouldn't have been so surprising if he started threatening Beerus with his Base(for me at least). And we must remember that the movie is a promoting one, as the old fans to remember their favoruite characters(and yes, I'm sure Gotenks should have fans too).

There's a difference between being cocky and being suicidal. Goten and Trunks both explicitly acknowledged Gohan's superiority. To top it off, Gotenks went SS3 immediately against Buu in the second round.

The trailers don't prove anything like Gohan wasn't Ultimate from the beginnig. It the trailer Goku was shown in the space to yell Kamehameha before firing the blast towards Beerus, still in the movie(and not even in the extended edition of it) Goku doesn't yell any words before that blast. And of course that balst wasn't as huge like in the movie. Not mention that Goku comes in the trailer and says something like this: "Ossu(Hy)! Would fight me a bit?" In the movie, when he challenges Beerus, he didn't formulate himself like that(not even in Japenese).

Things from the trailer are changed, yes. But what the writer of this movie would have you believe is that Gohan was a SS for promotional purposes. As was pointed out, that makes no sense. Furthermore, those other things you mentioned are just small things that were changed in the final version as corrections on the whims of the animators. The Gohan thing was only changed because fans began calling BS on the movie.

[Hugo Boss]

Why just not assume Super Saiyan was Vegeta, Gohan and Gotenks' most powerful forms in the movie?

Why would ssj1 be more powerful then 2,3 and Mystic ?

Because they don't use these further ascended forms anymore? Well, it's not like they were holding back. Maybe the script didn't describe the exact form they would use to fight Beerus, but it seems to make more sense if they fight full out.

In the movie, it's even said Vegeta surpassed Goku's level, thus suggesting none of these guys would be able to take Boo if Goku had lost their fight.

[sintzu]

Because they don't use these further ascended forms anymore ?

Gohan was mystic.
Vegeta went all out so he was ssj2.
Goku was ssj3 in his first fight.

It remains to be seen what happens in the next movie and after that but as of now these forms are still used and relevant to the story.

[Hugo Boss]

Gohan's design was rearranged to be Mystic, but at first I think he was intended to be a Super Saiyan, like in the SSGod's ritual.

Vegeta was only described by Goku as "an incredible Super Saiyan", so I don't see SS2's traits there at all. For me, he was still a Super Saiyan.

As for Goku, we could see the difference between his super saiyan forms (1/2/3) and with SSGod he end up demonstrating how Super Saiyan 1 can be ahead of all that powered-up forms and fight properly (without drawbacks).

Unfortunately, I don't think we will be able to see those forms again.

[sintzu]

Gohan's design was rearranged to be Mystic, but at first I think he was intended to be a Super Saiyan, like in the SSGod's ritual.

Vegeta was only described by Goku as "an incredible Super Saiyan", so I don't see SS2's traits there at all. For me, he was still a Super Saiyan.

The screen writer said he was mystic in the script but ssj in the trailer for promotion,Some say he's laying and changed it after fans called him on it which could be true but until it's said by someone official it's nothing more then fan speculation.

I would see why fans would say Vegeta was a ssj if Goku's ssj2 had lighting and a different aura then his ssj aura but it didn't have both plus him going all out would mean using his strongest form.

[dbzfan7]

The whole thing with Gohan is similar to the SSJ Goku recolour in the Other World Tournament Saga

[Hugo Boss]

The screen writer said he was mystic in the script but ssj in the trailer for promotion,Some say he's laying and changed it after fans called him on it which could be true but until it's said by someone official it's nothing more then fan speculation.

I would see why fans would say Vegeta was a ssj if Goku's ssj2 had lighting and a different aura then his ssj aura but it didn't have both plus him going all out would mean using his strongest form.

You're a fan too, I suppose..

Be SS or Mystic, that appeared to be Gohan's maximum form. Just like Gotenks or Vegeta's... I mean. For me, it doesn't matter what form they were at, but they seemed to give everything they got before let Goku take the lead once again. In this particular case, Vegeta doesn't have to be a SS2 to access his full potential as a Super Saiyan, he could have surpassed even a hyphotetical SS3 given the similarities between his and Goku's level.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Gohan's bios for BoG says that he surpasses that of a full-blooded saiyan which by default, would mean Goku in SSJ3. Plus, why would Gohan deliberately attack Beerus in base state since he wasn't ultimate?

He was a SS-SS2. That was the way he was originally animated. They changed the colors at the last minute to make him appear Ultimate when a fan pointed out the inconsistency. The story doesn't make if he has his Ultimate form, because Gotenks is confident against Beerus without even using SS3 after seeing Gohan lose. He was originally a regular SS-SS2, and his appearance in the movie has him treated as such.

Wait, let me get this straight ; You claim that Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks are stronger than SSJG Goku? I'm sorry, but Toriyama said that Beerus is dimensions above even Majin Boo, and SSJG actually managed to put up a decent fight against him.
With your logic, Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks are stronger than Boo Gohan absorbed.

[RandomGuy96]

Gohan's bios for BoG says that he surpasses that of a full-blooded saiyan which by default, would mean Goku in SSJ3. Plus, why would Gohan deliberately attack Beerus in base state since he wasn't ultimate?

He was a SS-SS2. That was the way he was originally animated. They changed the colors at the last minute to make him appear Ultimate when a fan pointed out the inconsistency. The story doesn't make if he has his Ultimate form, because Gotenks is confident against Beerus without even using SS3 after seeing Gohan lose. He was originally a regular SS-SS2, and his appearance in the movie has him treated as such.

Wait, let me get this straight. You claim that Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks are stronger than SSJG Goku? I'm sorry, but Toriyama said that Beerus is dimensions above even Majin Boo, and SSJG actually managed to put up a decent fight against him.
With your logic, Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks are stronger than Boo Gohan absorbed.

When did I say Gohan and Gotenks > SSG? By the way, no, SSG never managed to put up a decent fight against Beerus. Beerus was only using 70% of his power, he could've powered up to 100% and two-shotted Goku again any time he wanted.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Point made though, SSJG Goku still impressed Beerus in their fight since he was the second best person to fight him. You stated Gohan and Gotenks to be superior to SSJG Goku in your previous posts to me.

"Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks weren't in that movie, because if they were, Goku would look shitty and weak prior to and after SSG."

[RandomGuy96]

Point made though, SSJG Goku still impressed Beerus in their fight since he was the second best person to fight him. You stated Gohan and Gotenks to be superior to SSJG Goku in your previous posts to me.

"Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks weren't in that movie, because if they were, Goku would look shitty and weak prior to and after SSG."

"Prior to" = before he got SSG, where he wasn't much stronger than he was in the Buu arc.

"After" = after SSG wore off, when he still considered Pure Buu to be a good fight. Five years later. Again, barely stronger than he was in the Buu arc.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Point made though, SSJG Goku still impressed Beerus in their fight since he was the second best person to fight him. You stated Gohan and Gotenks to be superior to SSJG Goku in your previous posts to me.

"Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks weren't in that movie, because if they were, Goku would look shitty and weak prior to and after SSG."

"Prior to" = before he got SSG, where he wasn't much stronger than he was in the Buu arc.

"After" = after SSG wore off, and after five more years where he was presumably training, where he still considered Pure Buu to be a good fight. Again, barely stronger than he was in the Buu arc.

Didn't it say in the movie that Goku absorbed that realm of power after SSJG state wore off?

[RandomGuy96]

Point made though, SSJG Goku still impressed Beerus in their fight since he was the second best person to fight him. You stated Gohan and Gotenks to be superior to SSJG Goku in your previous posts to me.

"Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks weren't in that movie, because if they were, Goku would look shitty and weak prior to and after SSG."

"Prior to" = before he got SSG, where he wasn't much stronger than he was in the Buu arc.

"After" = after SSG wore off, and after five more years where he was presumably training, where he still considered Pure Buu to be a good fight. Again, barely stronger than he was in the Buu arc.

Didn't it say in the movie that Goku absorbed that realm of power after SSJG state wore off?

Yes, but it was stated in the manga that Pure Buu could possibly defeat EOZ Goku.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Something doesn't add up here then, because how could Goku after inheriting that realm of power lose to Oob who has Pure boo' power?

[RandomGuy96]

Something doesn't add up here then, because how could Goku after inheriting that realm of power lose to Oob who has Pure boo' power?

Three possible explanations:

1. Something will happen in the 2015 movie that takes away the SSG powers.

2. The power just went away on its own after BOG.

3. BOG is in its own continuity. My favorite explanation. This would also explain the other errors.