Is Bulma's age 38 or 45 during BoG?

[Vegard Aune]

It's not just a universe where Bulma is a different age. It's also a universe where Vegeta gets rage boosts, Mr. Satan never met Dende, Piccolo has five fingers, Mai is a different age, Shenron doesn't grant the correct number of wishes, there are more surviving saiyans than 4, Beerus sealed Elder Kaioshin instead of some other guy (according to Toriyama's BOG related interviews), etc.

The Mr. Satan thing does actually have a semi-plausible explanation provided in-story though... He was drunk at the time. Granted, this is only shown in the extended cut, but it does help make his sudden not knowing who Dende is a bit more logical.

[ImmaDeker]

It's not just a universe where Bulma is a different age. It's also a universe where Vegeta gets rage boosts, Mr. Satan never met Dende, Piccolo has five fingers, Mai is a different age, Shenron doesn't grant the correct number of wishes, there are more surviving saiyans than 4, Beerus sealed Elder Kaioshin instead of some other guy (according to Toriyama's BOG related interviews), etc. Again, this is the in-universe answer, which I only gave because someone pointed out this was an in-universe question. I acknowledged from the beginning that the real reason Bulma was stated to be 38 was because BOG made an error, and there's nothing more to it than that.

And "it's a different universe" is a boring answer lacking in creativity.

You know which one of these really bugs me? One of the differences being "there are more than four surviving Saiyans." Like the idea that Raditz being misinformed is some giant break of continuity and not just, y'know, maybe he was misinformed. No, it's way simpler to assume this is some alternate reality parallel with another reality and that there are entire layers of reality about dickpunching Ubermensches and not, y'know, Raditz just being wrong. "Alternate universe" isn't even the simplest answer, it's an answer that actively ignores several correlations with real life (as broadly applied as it could be) and the flexibility of what is and isn't known about a subject at a given time. I recently saw a newspost trending in my Facebook about there maybe being two other planets in the Solar System. That contradicts what we knew before. We must live in an alternate universe divorced from the year 1995.

The idea that character dialogue is treated as gospel truth when human beings are fallible is laughable to me. You're having a debate about the validity of continuity when you're completely incapable of trying to approach any given statement with even the slightest area of contextual wiggle room. Context just doesn't even exist. The idea things can act or be contradictory or relevatory even slightly like the real world is just unheard of to some fucking people.

And "Shenron doesn't grant the right number of wishes?" He didn't grant any, from what I remember. The entire joke was Beerus was such tough cosmic shit he just gave the question up and left. That doesn't contradict anything, that's just a familiar thing taken in a new context.

Beerus sealed Elder Kaioshin instead of some other guy (according to Toriyama's BOG related interviews

So what's exactly the criteria? The movie didn't contradict anything. Why should Toriyama's statements matter if he didn't feel it was important enough to include in the script? Just because it's his intent while writing it, nobody's really obligated to factor it into a discussion if it's not in the work in question. I can't tell if you endorse or oppose auteur theory or what your boundaries for that even are.

Piccolo has five fingers

Oh my fucking God.

[rereboy]

So what's exactly the criteria? The movie didn't contradict anything.

Old Kaioshin mentions in the manga that the guy who sealed him probably wasn't as strong as Buu. If it was Beerus, considering how strong he is, that seems to be a contradiction.

[ImmaDeker]

So what's exactly the criteria? The movie didn't contradict anything.

Old Kaioshin mentions in the manga that the guy who sealed him probably wasn't as strong as Buu. If it was Beerus, considering how strong he is, that seems to be a contradiction.

To be fair, he said "probably." Assuming you're right, as I don't remember the dialogue offhand.

And characters can be fallible. I don't get what's so wrong with a character's statements just...being wrong.

[Kamiccolo9]

So what's exactly the criteria? The movie didn't contradict anything.

Old Kaioshin mentions in the manga that the guy who sealed him probably wasn't as strong as Buu. If it was Beerus, considering how strong he is, that seems to be a contradiction.

He says "bad as Buu." "Bad" could mean strong, sure, or it could just mean "bad."

Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P6.5, P7.2, P8.2-3
Elder Kaioshin: “That’s ri~~~ight. Lo~~~ong, lo~~~ong ago, there was this ridiculously strong and ba~~~ad dude. Well, he wasn’t as bad as this Majin Boo guy now, but still~~~. He did it, he se~~~ealed me away inside that sword. Me here. He was freaked out by how fearsome I am. Yep, sure wa~~~as.”

[ImmaDeker]

So what's exactly the criteria? The movie didn't contradict anything.

Old Kaioshin mentions in the manga that the guy who sealed him probably wasn't as strong as Buu. If it was Beerus, considering how strong he is, that seems to be a contradiction.

He says "bad as Buu." "Bad" could mean strong, sure, or it could just mean "bad."

Everything ever is power levels.

[rereboy]

He says "bad as Buu." "Bad" could mean strong, sure, or it could just mean "bad."

I thought it said strong. If that's the case, then it gets murkier. Still, the line seems iffy if it indeed was Beerus.

[ImmaDeker]

Because when you say someone is as bad as someone else, it's a precise, mathematical statement and someone not just eyeballing a range of danger that seems unimportant to emphasize at the time.

Statements never exist in the context they are spoken.

[rereboy]

To be fair, he said "probably." Assuming you're right, as I don't remember the dialogue offhand.

And characters can be fallible. I don't get what's so wrong with a character's statements just...being wrong.

Beerus was stronger than Vegetto who was WAYYYYYYY stronger than any Buu. And Old Kaioshin is consistently shown to actually know what he is talking about in regards to character's power. It would be weird for him to be that wrong regarding such a huge difference.

Still, as it was mentioned, the line actually stated "bad", so the issue isn't clear.

Because when you say someone is as bad as someone else, it's a precise, mathematical statement and someone not just eyeballing a range of danger that seems unimportant to emphasize at the time.

Statements never exist in the context they are spoken.

+5 points for exemplifying how exactly a user goes overboard with irony and unfriendly attitude in response to a simple and neutral post. Really, haven't seen much better examples around.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Beerus was stronger than Vegetto who was WAYYYYYYY stronger than any Buu. And Old Kaioshin is consistently shown to actually know what he is talking about in regards to character's power. It would be weird for him to be that wrong regarding such a huge difference.

I don't see the problem with this though. Goku made absurd gains, growing at least x1,200,000 stronger without transformations or techniques (Kaioken) in ~40 years. Elder Kaioshin's sealing was 75 million years ago and we know Beerus undergoes training from Whis.

[rereboy]

Beerus was stronger than Vegetto who was WAYYYYYYY stronger than any Buu. And Old Kaioshin is consistently shown to actually know what he is talking about in regards to character's power. It would be weird for him to be that wrong regarding such a huge difference.

I don't see the problem with this though. Goku made absurd gains, growing at least x1,200,000 stronger without transformations or techniques (Kaioken) in ~40 years. Elder Kaioshin's sealing was 75 million years ago and we know Beerus undergoes training from Whis.

That could work as an explanation but, if that's the case, it should be explained somewhere, especially since Beerus sleeps for very long periods. The difference between a inconsistency and something that its not a inconsistency is a good explanation (inside the franchise).

But, as it was mentioned, the line was about "bad" not "strong", so its not clear either way.

[RandomGuy96]

He says "bad as Buu." "Bad" could mean strong, sure, or it could just mean "bad."

Actually, Herms said the line meant stronger, and he made a mistake giving the impression that it didn't. I can't find his exact post right now (I'm looking), just some posts where he refers to the line specifically saying "weaker":

--So, Beerus sealing Elder Kaioshin away. I like that Toriyama is trying to integrate Beerus into the previously established DB world as much as possible, but I feel like "Beerus did it" is starting to become a default explanation (why is Kaio's planet so small? Why did Freeza destroy Planet Vegeta? What killed the dinosaurs?). Toriyama's explanation here doesn't match what Elder Kaioshin says in the manga very well either. In the manga, EK says he got sealed away by a super strong, super evil dude (that was still weaker than Buu), because the guy was afraid of EK's power-up ability. Here, Toriyama says it was because EK got into an argument with Beerus (a not all that evil guy who's way stronger than Buu) over some piddling little thing. Maybe they were arguing about EK's power-up ability, and EK underestimates Beerus' power? But you'd think EK would actually mention during the course of BoG that he had this prior encounter with Beerus. Maybe.

And "it's a different universe" is a boring answer lacking in creativity.

You know which one of these really bugs me? One of the differences being "there are more than four surviving Saiyans." Like the idea that Raditz being misinformed is some giant break of continuity and not just, y'know, maybe he was misinformed. No, it's way simpler to assume this is some alternate reality parallel with another reality and that there are entire layers of reality about dickpunching Ubermensches and not, y'know, Raditz just being wrong. "Alternate universe" isn't even the simplest answer, it's an answer that actively ignores several correlations with real life (as broadly applied as it could be) and the flexibility of what is and isn't known about a subject at a given time. I recently saw a newspost trending in my Facebook about there maybe being two other planets in the Solar System. That contradicts what we knew before. We must live in an alternate universe divorced from the year 1995.

Except it's not just Raditz. Vegeta says the same thing, as does the narrator at one point IIRC.

So what's exactly the criteria? The movie didn't contradict anything. Why should Toriyama's statements matter if he didn't feel it was important enough to include in the script? Just because it's his intent while writing it, nobody's really obligated to factor it into a discussion if it's not in the work in question. I can't tell if you endorse or oppose auteur theory or what your boundaries for that even are.

Ignoring Toriyama is fine. A lot of people don't ignore Toriyama's comments on BOG, though, so I thought it to be worthy of note.

And "Shenron doesn't grant the right number of wishes?" He didn't grant any, from what I remember. The entire joke was Beerus was such tough cosmic shit he just gave the question up and left. That doesn't contradict anything, that's just a familiar thing taken in a new context.

Didn't they ask him to explain what a Super Saiyan God was? Shenron isn't supposed to leave until he grants three wishes. Not to mention that doesn't really work as a joke. You don't need to be tough to intimidate Shenron.

Oh my fucking God.

Minor contradictions pile up. They're small errors, but if one insists one trying to explain them in-universe, there's not much of an explanation.

And characters can be fallible. I don't get what's so wrong with a character's statements just...being wrong.

From a purely in-universe standpoint, technically there's nothing wrong. It can be stupid if a character doesn't share information they have when they clearly should, but there's no real contradiction. From a storytelling perspective, though, retconning statements on the scale Toriyama has done is just annoying for the reader/viewer, considering that Toriyama has generally used his characters as tools for storytelling, always giving a clear indication of when they're mistaken, and using them as his mouth in-universe.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So what's exactly the criteria? The movie didn't contradict anything.

Old Kaioshin mentions in the manga that the guy who sealed him probably wasn't as strong as Buu. If it was Beerus, considering how strong he is, that seems to be a contradiction.

Well, we are talking about 75 million years before BoG. It is only a contradiction if we assume that Beerus was at the same level for so long, and we have no reason not to.

(BTW, this wasn't a BoG-related interview, the interview had nothing to do with the movie).

And, well, almost all of the BoG contradictions can be explained without the AU theory.