Why is the Canadian/UK Blue Water dub of DBGT so hated?

[Blade]

Low production values, bad acting and needless censorship aside, I'd rather watch the Blue Water dub of GT than the Funimation.

Thinking back to when it was actually broadcast here in the UK, I think the main issue a lot of people had was the complete re-casting compared to the Westwood dub of Z and the totally different sounding score, which was ironically the original Tokunaga score.

Dragonball went down like a bomb in the UK due to how stylistically different it was on the whole to everything that had been broadcast chronologically before it, although if I remember rightly, the ratings did pick up towards the end.

[ShaneisMC]

I'm pretty certain that a talented high school cast could do a better job than that. That was so painful i couldnt tell if it was to the point of humor or not but man..... whoo....... I mean thats just my opinion but other than a persons possible nostalgia i dont personally see how anyone could stomach this. I would be horribly embarrassed for someone who had never been introduced to the series to see some of these performances.

[Blade]

I'm pretty certain that a talented high school cast could do a better job than that. That was so painful i couldnt tell if it was to the point of humor or not but man..... whoo....... I mean thats just my opinion but other than a persons possible nostalgia i dont personally see how anyone could stomach this. I would be horribly embarrassed for someone who had never been introduced to the series to see some of these performances.

I'd say that the Funimation dub of GT isn't any better, not least because their production mandate to essentially reversion the show into something quite departed from the original was executed so poorly.

[ShaneisMC]

I'm pretty certain that a talented high school cast could do a better job than that. That was so painful i couldnt tell if it was to the point of humor or not but man..... whoo....... I mean thats just my opinion but other than a persons possible nostalgia i dont personally see how anyone could stomach this. I would be horribly embarrassed for someone who had never been introduced to the series to see some of these performances.

I'd say that the Funimation dub of GT isn't any better, not least because their production mandate to essentially reversion the show into something quite departed from the original was executed so poorly.

I certainly feel Funimation is better. But yeah, Pre Kai Funi definitely still had a lot of problems. I'm sure people would still argue they do but man.... these past few years that group have truly grown into some professionals. At least in my opinion.

[dbboxkaifan]

I'd say that the Funimation dub of GT isn't any better, not least because their production mandate to essentially reversion the show into something quite departed from the original was executed so poorly.

Indeed. FUNimation skipped the first 16 episodes which then they went on releasing them as "The Lost Episodes" to fix the fuckup they've done, it was rather unfortunate that the soundtrack used was Menza's and the script isn't accurate to the translated version by Mr. Simmons.

You can have a show/movie in its uncut form but if the cast, script, music, etc are unable to make you feel like it's worth watching then it has failed to do its job.

[Cure Dragon 255]

The Blue Water dubs of both Dragon Ball and GT have some issues, primarily with the ability to emote and act. I feel like Dragon Ball made out better than GT though.

The more modern Blue Water dubs like Pretty Cure and the stuff done with casts partially from Vancouver are solid efforts. It'll be interesting to see how much some of the returning talent has improved if that vapordub of Kai ever rears its head.

I LOVE YOUUUUUU.

lol

[Cure Dragon 255]

I wasn't aware that this dub was hated by any means, but it's probably seen by most as being an unnecessary and inferior alternative to the Funimation Dub. Funimation has a clear edge being uncut, and having had the same voices since the beginning of DB. On top of that, it features English versions of all 5 of the original theme songs. The Blue Water dub may not be heavily edited, but it still counts. I hear they even cut out title cards. Also, only a shortened English version of the Opening and First Ending. Also, it isn't the same cast since the beginning (and didn't even cover all of Z). The only edge I could think of would be the original score, but even that is beaten out by the score's inclusion as the primary option on the Green Bricks.

The same logic could be applied to the Ocean/Blue Water stuff for DB and DBZ. Again, uncut is a big factor. That being said, it doesn't sound like it's as bad as the average edited dub. It just can't hold a candle to the actual uncut version.

You DO realize the Unfcut Funimation version came LATER. NO ONE is saying it beats the actual uncut Funi Version, all that is being said its that its decent for being an TV deal dub aimed at kids and that its decent on its own. If we compared all the dubs to the actual uncut funimation versions ALL versions wil fall short.

[Adamant]

I mean the Big Green dub is probably more faithful than FUNi's original dub yet it's considered one of the worst anime dubs ever since the acting is atrocious.

So is "Funi's original dub".

All the English Dragonball dubs are pretty awful, which of them people hate for being bad and which they loved and insist aren't bad has extremely little to do with anything other than which of them they grew up on.

And there's your answer to the question: It's "so hated" because it's a bad dub with far less over-nostalgic fans letting their rose-colored glasses tint their vision than the other available dub has.

[Cure Dragon 255]

So True~!

Also I want to touch on the whole "Unnecesary Censorship thing"

Stop that. Its not up to fans to decide. If any given BS&P persons says something is to be censored, that's that. You CAN try and fight for more freedom (If you are a writer working on the show) which IS admirable and even win some battles which is even better, but at the end of the day they decide, not you.

And no they are not "EVUL BASTERDS OUT TO CENSOR ANIMU". ANY and all shows have to undergo revision by BS&P. Even original ones. In the 70's Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry had to be edited for Syndication to be allowed to air at all.

And they ALSO arent "DUMB PEOPLE WHO THINK CHILDREN ARE DUMB" The censorship they do isnt really for children at all. Its for Dumb adults who have nothing better to do than try and sue the networks out of their money. I know it seems like I'm a censorship apologist but you have to know the context behind people's actions and why they do what they do. If they didnt censor some stuff the Goverment would jump in and give ANY sort of controversial material they dont like the axe. Its like the Hayes code, which was dumb. even by my standards, but prevented worse rules from taking its place.

And you have to remember a show has to make money to justify airing it. And you are most definitely NOT going to make money if advertisers think your show is "Poisoning Children's Minds".Mark Evanier (Awesome Cartoon Writer) said that stakes are WAY higher with Kids TV than Adult TV, especially in Broadcast TV. I know its really dumb but it is a necesary evil. Its dumb sure, but its that's that. Its not unccesary.

[dbboxkaifan]

The old European dubs that received the AB Groupe material to work with weren't really very good at all, but you know what? Kids like it regardless and in my childhood I never really thought of how unprofessional the voices were or the script's inaccuracy because when they're watching they just want to have a good time and enjoy the show.

Blue Water's GT dub at least maintained the original soundtrack which is something that FUNimation didn't.

[Kakacarrottop]

Blue Water's GT dub at least maintained the original soundtrack which is something that FUNimation didn't.

This dub also uses the original soundtrack, does that mean it should be compared in a favorable light to FUNimation? Trust me many crumby foreign dubs use the original music since the people behind those dubs don't have what is required to create their own original music, it doesn't make them in any way better dubbers than companies like FUNimation and Ocean who use their own music. The fact North American dubs get new music composed for them proves the creators of the dub have at least put effort into the dub, no matter how bad or butchered the scripts are.

Have you actually even listened to Menza's score? Sure it has some slight hip hop esque rhythms and the intro was a rap-rock song but other than that it's just as industrial/metal as Faulconer's overhyped work and Nathan Johnson's terrible music. The only real reason people don't like it as much as Faulconer's score is because it doesn't have any catchy character "themes".

You can't compare the Faulconer score because that was composed by more than one composer (Mike, Bruce, Julius, Morgan) whereas the Menza score was by just Menza himself, and as such, there really wasn't much variety at all, it felt too much alike the other tracks and they're quite repetitive while at it too. It's boring, bland, repetitive, uninteresting and cheesy.

The Menza tunes used for GT just don't fit the series at all and FUNimation should have never hired him for it but rather use the original soundtrack which is far superior.

I've heard the exact same words used by non-Japanese people to describe Kikuchi's Dragon Ball Z score.

[dbboxkaifan]

Where'd you get the idea that because they used the original music that it made them lazy and untalented? If it isn't broken then don't try to fix it. FUNimation did the reverse.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Blue Water's GT dub at least maintained the original soundtrack which is something that FUNimation didn't.

This dub also uses the original soundtrack, does that mean it should be compared in a favorable light to FUNimation? Trust me many crumby foreign dubs use the original music since the people behind those dubs don't have what is required to create their own original music, it doesn't make them in any way better dubbers than companies like FUNimation and Ocean who use their own music. The fact North American dubs get new music composed for them proves the creators of the dub have at least put effort into the dub, no matter how bad or butchered the scripts are.

Have you actually even listened to Menza's score? Sure it has some slight hip hop esque rhythms and the intro was a rap-rock song but other than that it's just as industrial/metal as Faulconer's overhyped work and Nathan Johnson's terrible music. The only real reason people don't like it as much as Faulconer's score is because it doesn't have any catchy character "themes".

You can't compare the Faulconer score because that was composed by more than one composer (Mike, Bruce, Julius, Morgan) whereas the Menza score was by just Menza himself, and as such, there really wasn't much variety at all, it felt too much alike the other tracks and they're quite repetitive while at it too. It's boring, bland, repetitive, uninteresting and cheesy.

The Menza tunes used for GT just don't fit the series at all and FUNimation should have never hired him for it but rather use the original soundtrack which is far superior.

I've heard the exact same words used by non-Japanese people to describe Kikuchi's Dragon Ball Z score.

By that logic 4kids One Piece is the best dub ever.

[Kakacarrottop]

By that logic 4kids One Piece is the best dub ever.

The 4Kids dub of One Piece is not liked by people who are quote un quote "blinded by nostalgia" and only familiar with the original version since it was heavily localized/censored (btw censoring stuff by adding digital paint takes hours and costs money), it's not like the people who made it put no effort into it. The replacement music in that dub for example is just as good (if not even better) than the original music and cost just as much money to make. If you listen to it on it's own merits without the terrible dialogue attached then it's good music. Same applies for replacement scores for shows like Pokemon, Digimon and in particular Yugioh, they had some really high quality, fitting music that is constantly attacked by people who are "blinded by nostalgia" since bad dialogue is attached to it.

[Michelle91]

I like this dub better then Funimation's dub of GT. At least this dub didn't had awful corny dialogue from what I can remember. One episode of the Funimation GT dub had Goku feel like that he was scared of going into a metal fan .

[Cure Dragon 255]

By that logic 4kids One Piece is the best dub ever.

The 4Kids dub of One Piece is not liked by people who are quote un quote "blinded by nostalgia" and only familiar with the original version since it was heavily localized/censored (btw censoring stuff by adding digital paint takes hours and costs money), it's not like the people who made it put no effort into it. The replacement music in that dub for example is just as good (if not even better) than the original music and cost just as much money to make. If you listen to it on it's own merits without the terrible dialogue attached then it's good music. Same applies for replacement scores for shows like Pokemon, Digimon and in particular Yugioh, they had some really high quality, fitting music that is constantly attacked by people who are "blinded by nostalgia" since bad dialogue is attached to it.

Oh god you GENUINELY believe its good...

That's so sad. Not only because you did have a point but now it will be forever buried in "4kids was right" hyperbolic crap. No, the music was NOT "just as good" as the original. It was mediocre and awful.Oh and before you say "Well, you are blinded by your love of the japanese version" I actually watched 4kids version first and foremost and I LOATHED IT. It wasnt until I saw the Japanese version that I got into One Piece. And MANY will tell you the exact same thing.

And lets not forget the editing. Oh god the editing.

I really DO think 4Kids was right in censoring SOME stuff. Some stuff just wont cut it for Kids on SatAM television....but then they started merging and skipping episodes and their dub became IMPOSSIBLE to defend. And before you say, "Well, they did what they had to do to air the show" Bullshit. They never aired One Piece, the abomination they made has no right to share a name with Oda's work.

And Dragon Ball Z Kai got away with a lot, despite the ridiculous editing that was required, no merging episodes, not adding dumb dialogue ETC. It is THE standard 4kids One Piece SHOULD have followed.


You DO have a point. 4kids did try their hardest to make One Piece succeed, even if this led to its downfall instead. Funimation hardly bothers actually marketing ther anime at kids and mainstream audiences anymore and its freaking infuriating. They seem to be content pandering to perverts with shows like Onii-chan Dakedo Ai Sae Areba Kankeinai yo ne.

[Kakacarrottop]

By that logic 4kids One Piece is the best dub ever.

The 4Kids dub of One Piece is not liked by people who are quote un quote "blinded by nostalgia" and only familiar with the original version since it was heavily localized/censored (btw censoring stuff by adding digital paint takes hours and costs money), it's not like the people who made it put no effort into it. The replacement music in that dub for example is just as good (if not even better) than the original music and cost just as much money to make. If you listen to it on it's own merits without the terrible dialogue attached then it's good music. Same applies for replacement scores for shows like Pokemon, Digimon and in particular Yugioh, they had some really high quality, fitting music that is constantly attacked by people who are "blinded by nostalgia" since bad dialogue is attached to it.

Oh god you GENUINELY believe its good...

That's so sad. Not only because you did have a point but now it will be forever buried in "4kids was right" hyperbolic crap. No, the music was NOT "just as good" as the original. It was mediocre and awful.Oh and before you say "Well, you are blinded by your love of the japanese version" I actually watched 4kids version first and foremost and I LOATHED IT. It wasnt until I saw the Japanese version that I got into One Piece. And MANY will tell you the exact same thing.

And lets not forget the editing. Oh god the editing.

I really DO think 4Kids was right in censoring SOME stuff. Some stuff just wont cut it for Kids on SatAM television....but then they started merging and skipping episodes and their dub became IMPOSSIBLE to defend. And before you say, "Well, they did what they had to do to air the show" Bullshit. They never aired One Piece, the abomination they made has no right to share a name with Oda's work.

And Dragon Ball Z Kai got away with a lot, despite the ridiculous editing that was required, no merging episodes, not adding dumb dialogue ETC. It is THE standard 4kids One Piece SHOULD have followed.


You DO have a point. 4kids did try their hardest to make One Piece succeed, even if this led to its downfall instead. Funimation hardly bothers actually marketing ther anime at kids and mainstream audiences anymore and its freaking infuriating. They seem to be content pandering to perverts with shows like Onii-chan Dakedo Ai Sae Areba Kankeinai yo ne.

I never said it's "good", it's a terrible dub aimed at 3 year olds that does no justice to what is a great show, my point is 4Kids put a lot of effort into the dub's production (since they knew the show could make them a lot of money). FUNi's dub is much better since it's how the show was mainly intended to be like, but the production quality is very low compared to 4Kids. I mean they just use the original music (like the genius, faithful dubbers behind the Big Green and Malaysian DBZ dubs), don't alter anything (since their dub isn't intended for Network television but rather the Home video market) and hire semi-professional actors like the ones used in FUNi's Dragon Ball related dubs.

[Theophrastus]

I never said it's "good", it's a terrible dub aimed at 3 year olds that does no justice to what is a great show, my point is 4Kids put a lot of effort into the dub's production (since they knew the show could make them a lot of money). FUNi's dub is much better since it's how the show was mainly intended to be like, but the production quality is very low compared to 4Kids. I mean they just use the original music (like the genius, faithful dubbers behind the Big Green and Malaysian DBZ dubs), don't alter anything (since their dub isn't intended for Network television but rather the Home video market) and hire semi-professional actors like the ones used in FUNi's Dragon Ball related dubs.

For discussion's sake, in terms of production values, it should be noted that Funimation did take the effort to produce proper English-dubbed versions of the OPs/EDs for the English voice track for the first three "seasons" (up through episode 206, the SD era of the show)...and then apparently from "season four" onward it became harder/not really viable to secure the rights to do that, so they stopped doing it.

Still, that's like 18 vocal songs that they spent the time and money to produce.

[90sDBZ]

I like this dub better then Funimation's dub of GT. At least this dub didn't had awful corny dialogue from what I can remember. One episode of the Funimation GT dub had Goku feel like that he was scared of going into a metal fan .

But so did the Japanese version. In the Japanese version he nervously refers to the metal fan as a "Dead end". And I can't think of anything in Funimation's dub that's as misleading as Goku saying Vegeta's Final Explosion defeated Majin Buu, or saying that he was born on earth for that matter.

To me the acting in Funimation's dub was leaps and bounds ahead of Blue Water's.