So do some at Funi have regrets with how DBZ was handled?

[ImmaDeker]

What does FUNimation have to regret? They kept the lights on for their families and continue to do so today. It just so happens to be at the cost of artistic integrity,

It's fucking Dragonball.

[Mosaic]

Sean Schemmel- ""I'll talk as loudly as I want now, and I'll be heard. The reason is you're misunderstanding some things about companies and dubbing and how they control our mouths. Just because I was in the original DBZ, doesn't mean I liked it or supported it artistically. We were all frustrated with the old powers that be at Funimation, and for those of you who have never worked in show business professionally, which I would say is, all of you, you may not realize that many companies stance on gag orders is this. "Shut up or be fired." Also, I have a LOT more experience, writing, dubbing, directing and acting in anime than I did when I recorded DBZ the first time. That was my first acting audition. I understand Japanese culture, voice acting, adaptation, the differences between japanese and english significantly more, and, as far as music is concerned I have vast experience in that area, so when I tell you the music will suck, aside from your own subjective experience, I'm pretty qualified to talk about the suckiness of music or not. Of course to each his own at the end of the day. I will be silent about my opinions no longer. We did the best we could with DBZ with some really really crappy decisions that were made by people, who in my opinion, not only had zero artistic talent and experience, were also trying to appease american audiences to make money because perhaps they thought the Pokemon formula would work for DBZ. If America wasn't so uptight about things and parents didn't allow the tv to babysit their children, perhaps more shows would come the U.S. and be uncut. At the end of the day, I am, and have always been a freelance actor, and just because I work for a company doesn't mean I support their decisions. This is the first time I have supported Funi's decisions publicly, and the staff at Funi is now amazing. It's a completely different company.

The problem I had with the post-Ocean dub was not even the censorship, it was everything else FUNI was doing. The music changes, questionable name translations, the dumb jokes, the questionable rewrites, etc. Censoring a shot of Goku's booty wasn't the issue. The issue was changing a great song like "DAN DAN" and replacing it with "Step into the Grand Tour".

It nice to hear from Schemmel on these issues, but representatives from FUNI have always said questionable stuff, and continue to do so. Remember how for years they said they didn't have the rights to the Japanese score? I don't know how credible Schemmel is either. He came to my school a couple of years ago, and he told everyone how he was close friends with Akira Toriyama.

FUNImation is a business at the end of the day. At the end of the day, they care about making money. Other than Dragon Ball, they've made dumb decisions in releasing certain series, but it's nothing out of the ordinary. VIZ, Geneon, and other big names have done similar things. Thankfully they don't do anything extremely awful like S'mores Entertainment or Toei's American releases from years back (Air Master, Slam Dunk).

I think I've already stated this in other threads, but of course Toei is to blame for a lot of other stuff. Questionable masters, vocal songs and lack of NEPs especially.

They seem to have a pretty good handle on the franchise now. They ironed out their relationship with Toei to get better materials, and they seem to know their fanbase better. Still wish they'd rerelease Dragon Ball though...

[JulieYBM]

What does FUNimation have to regret? They kept the lights on for their families and continue to do so today. It just so happens to be at the cost of artistic integrity,

It's fucking Dragonball.

Am I supposed to respect this comment and a disregard fact you find unworthy of mention?

EDIT: Whoops, completely forgot to include the word 'disregard' when I first wrote this post.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Sean Schemmel- ""I'll talk as loudly as I want now, and I'll be heard. The reason is you're misunderstanding some things about companies and dubbing and how they control our mouths. Just because I was in the original DBZ, doesn't mean I liked it or supported it artistically. We were all frustrated with the old powers that be at Funimation, and for those of you who have never worked in show business professionally, which I would say is, all of you, you may not realize that many companies stance on gag orders is this. "Shut up or be fired." Also, I have a LOT more experience, writing, dubbing, directing and acting in anime than I did when I recorded DBZ the first time. That was my first acting audition. I understand Japanese culture, voice acting, adaptation, the differences between japanese and english significantly more, and, as far as music is concerned I have vast experience in that area, so when I tell you the music will suck, aside from your own subjective experience, I'm pretty qualified to talk about the suckiness of music or not. Of course to each his own at the end of the day. I will be silent about my opinions no longer. We did the best we could with DBZ with some really really crappy decisions that were made by people, who in my opinion, not only had zero artistic talent and experience, were also trying to appease american audiences to make money because perhaps they thought the Pokemon formula would work for DBZ. If America wasn't so uptight about things and parents didn't allow the tv to babysit their children, perhaps more shows would come the U.S. and be uncut. At the end of the day, I am, and have always been a freelance actor, and just because I work for a company doesn't mean I support their decisions. This is the first time I have supported Funi's decisions publicly, and the staff at Funi is now amazing. It's a completely different company.

The problem I had with the post-Ocean dub was not even the censorship, it was everything else FUNI was doing. The music changes, questionable name translations, the dumb jokes, the questionable rewrites, etc. Censoring a shot of Goku's booty wasn't the issue. The issue was changing a great song like "DAN DAN" and replacing it with "Step into the Grand Tour".

It nice to hear from Schemmel on these issues, but representatives from FUNI have always said questionable stuff, and continue to do so. Remember how for years they said they didn't have the rights to the Japanese score? I don't know how credible Schemmel is either. He came to my school a couple of years ago, and he told everyone how he was close friends with Akira Toriyama.

FUNImation is a business at the end of the day. At the end of the day, they care about making money. Other than Dragon Ball, they've made dumb decisions in releasing certain series, but it's nothing out of the ordinary. VIZ, Geneon, and other big names have done similar things. Thankfully they don't do anything extremely awful like S'mores Entertainment or Toei's American releases from years back (Air Master, Slam Dunk).

I think I've already stated this in other threads, but of course Toei is to blame for a lot of other stuff. Questionable masters, vocal songs and lack of NEPs especially.

They seem to have a pretty good handle on the franchise now. They ironed out their relationship with Toei to get better materials, and they seem to know their fanbase better. Still wish they'd rerelease Dragon Ball though...

He adressed most of your concerns and even admitted Old Guard Funimation was very Business First=Art Second. He even said that it was Funi's money fetish that kept it from being like it should be. He didnt say "ITS THE FAULT OF THOSE DEM CENSORS". He didnt deflect blame at all.

A

[ABED]

He adressed most of your concerns and even admitted Old Guard Funimation was very Business First=Art Second. He even said that it was Funi's money fetish that kept it from being like it should be. He didnt say "ITS THE FAULT OF THOSE DEM CENSORS". He didnt deflect blame at all.

But there's no guarantee that they made more money because of those changes.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I'm on your side! I know they did it because they thought kids needed the unnecesary changes. I never said "Old Guard Funimation was all about doing the right changes to make DB work in America". I said "Sean does know the changes were stupid, he put no blame on the censors other than the edited dub. He knows how stupid Funimation used to be in the past."

The reason I loved Toonzai/Vortexx and gushed it to death was because it finally showed the fans of the original were right, Kids didnt turn of the TV in disgust when they heard silence, and even,GASP! Kikuchi tracks! It was a major victory for all sides. Little kids got to enjoy Dragon Ball, Funimation and 4kids/Saban made money and the former learned they didnt need to butcher a show beyond recognition (Too late to matter but still) and Japanese Version fans were vindicated in their belief that Dragon Ball could be enjoyed with the most bare necesary changes. No Faulconer, No silly jokes, No Lull Destruction.

And yes the changes, while ridiculous, were minimal. Sure Blue Popo is fucking moronic no matter what side you are on the "Is he a racist caricature?" debate and many others. But I did watch many episodes of the CW version (And keep in mind I grew up with the Uncut Latin American version of Z) and they QUITE GOOD actually. And even Vegeta gets to have his death scene mostly unchanged.

TL;DR. Funimation was stupid to do those changes, Sean knows it,admits it, doesnt sugarcoat it at all and doesnt pin blame on censors like the post I quoted tried to say.

[ImmaDeker]

What does FUNimation have to regret? They kept the lights on for their families and continue to do so today. It just so happens to be at the cost of artistic integrity,

It's fucking Dragonball.

Am I supposed to respect this comment and a disregard fact you find unworthy of mention?

EDIT: Whoops, completely forgot to include the word 'disregard' when I first wrote this post.

As much as I like Dragonball, my point is I'm pretty sure poorly dubbing the animated adaptation of a silly kung fu comic for children isn't sacrificing "artistic integrity."

[rereboy]

As much as I like Dragonball, my point is I'm pretty sure poorly dubbing the animated adaptation of a silly kung fu comic for children isn't sacrificing "artistic integrity."

The people who make these mangas/shows are artists and, as such, parting significantly from their view breaks the integrity of their artistic vision for the mangas/shows. Or are you gonna argue that only some of them are actually artists and the others aren't, according to a random subjective quality criteria?

[RandomGuy96]

Sure, they have nothing to regret. Except for ruining a great piece of art and then selling their souls to Satan. Oh wait, no, I'm sorry, "Hercule-".

[JulieYBM]

As much as I like Dragonball, my point is I'm pretty sure poorly dubbing the animated adaptation of a silly kung fu comic for children isn't sacrificing "artistic integrity."

I don't find the works of [Example A] to be interesting, but that doesn't mean when the works of [Example A] are altered to be less offensive for the lowest common denominator they are not altered.

I don't see how acknowledging the abandonment of artistic integrity means anything but good things. Yeah, FUNimation tossed aside artistic integrity (so does every licensor, for that matter) but they kept folks employed. Jobs are good for the economy, the economy is a reflection of the peoples' prosperity. The people's prosperity is good.

I think it's important we ask ourselves why anyone should feel regret for abandoning a burden--artistic integrity in this case--in a situation where their livelihood matters. It's a question those who participate in these dub discussions like to avoid because acknowledging the abandonment of artistic integrity leads folks to feel bad about themselves, something they don't want to do. This leads me to wonder why anyone should feel bad about liking what they like? It's like seeking legitimacy when legitimacy is defined as being the opposite of what one truly loves. If folks accept the fact they simply don't care about artistic integrity our discussions will be much more clearly defined.

I hope the preceding was as diplomatic as I meant for it to come off.

[ShadowDude112]

As much as I like Dragonball, my point is I'm pretty sure poorly dubbing the animated adaptation of a silly kung fu comic for children isn't sacrificing "artistic integrity."

I don't find the works of [Example A] to be interesting, but that doesn't mean when the works of [Example A] are altered to be less offensive for the lowest common denominator they are not altered.

I don't see how acknowledging the abandonment of artistic integrity means anything but good things. Yeah, FUNimation tossed aside artistic integrity (so does every licensor, for that matter) but they kept folks employed. Jobs are good for the economy, the economy is a reflection of the peoples' prosperity. The people's prosperity is good.

I think it's important we ask ourselves why anyone should feel regret for abandoning a burden--artistic integrity in this case--in a situation where their livelihood matters. It's a question those who participate in these dub discussions like to avoid because acknowledging the abandonment of artistic integrity leads folks to feel bad about themselves, something they don't want to do. This leads me to wonder why anyone should feel bad about liking what they like? It's like seeking legitimacy when legitimacy is defined as being the opposite of what one truly loves. If folks accept the fact they simply don't care about artistic integrity our discussions will be much more clearly defined.

I hope the preceding was as diplomatic as I meant for it to come off.

Do you just like to type really long posts despite the fact that they could be cut down significantly?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Sure, they have nothing to regret. Except for ruining a great piece of art and then selling their souls to Satan. Oh wait, no, I'm sorry, "Hercule-".

You cant be serious. He cant be serious. Is he serious?

[RandomGuy96]

Sure, they have nothing to regret. Except for ruining a great piece of art and then selling their souls to Satan. Oh wait, no, I'm sorry, "Hercule-".

Is he serious?

What do you think?

[Cure Dragon 255]

I think I'd rather not know.

[Ajay]

Do you just like to type really long posts despite the fact that they could be cut down significantly?

Uh, that's kinda rude.

Why is this thread so damn salty, anyway?

[ShadowDude112]

Do you just like to type really long posts despite the fact that they could be cut down significantly?

Uh, that's kinda rude.

Why is this thread so damn salty, anyway?

It's not rude pointing out that someone is verbose.

[Ajay]

It's not rude pointing out that someone is verbose.

Seems unnecessarily abrasive, to me.

Oh well, it's not really my place to take issue with it.

[ShadowDude112]

It's not rude pointing out that someone is verbose.

Seems unnecessarily abrasive, to me.

Oh well, it's not really my place to take issue with it.

How am I being abrasive by telling someone they could make their posts significantly shorter and still prove their point?

[Kakacarrottop]

Japanese Version fans were vindicated in their belief that Dragon Ball could be enjoyed with the most bare necesary changes. No Faulconer, No silly jokes

An argument could easily be made that Dragon Ball Z is better off with these sort of additions. There are unnecessary changes, then there are ones that are justifiable.

I never said "Old Guard Funimation was all about doing the right changes to make DB work in America". I said "Sean does know the changes were stupid, he put no blame on the censors other than the edited dub. He knows how stupid Funimation used to be in the past."

Why should he even care about this stuff? It's not like he was ever involved in anything overly censored or localized. Even the old 1999-2003 FUNi in-house dub wasn't that drastically changed overall in terms of script and visuals, in stark contrast to the prior Saban dub. If you want a well informed opinion on the show's censorship early on then go ask people like Haim Saban or Barry Watson. People like Schemmel essentially had no role in any of this stuff and were just showing up so they could have a steady source of income.

FUNimation tossed aside artistic integrity (so does every licensor, for that matter)

There is no such thing as 'artist integrity'. Fictional Entertainment exists to make money for it's creators. That term is basically another way of metaphorically saying "subjective". No matter how bad FUNi's old dub(s) may seem to you and other dedicated JP version fans, people out there enjoyed it back in the day (mainly people under 18 who had nothing else interesting to watch or do), and some still do (people who have made the conscious decision in their head that the old dub is better than the Japanese version or new accurate dubs as well as people who are "blinded" by nostalgia). In the end it all kind of comes down to who was exposed to what first and what they prefer personally (geographical location plays a big role in that).

[TheWhiz]

To answer your question, yes. Yes they do.