Is Dragon Ball becoming too soft?

[Captain Space]

I think they mean stuff like this:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 1007035329

[rereboy]

I don't get this obsession with hardcore violence. Is it really that important to see blood splattering everywhere? That's something 14-year-olds pay attention to when they want to pretend that something they're watching is "mature." There are mindless slasher films out there if you want something to scratch that itch.

You can't even blame this on Toriyama. Sure, the man prefers comedy over action, but that doesn't explain why Dragon Ball Kai is airing on Japanese television with censored violence. The television and film industries have simply changed worldwide. You can no longer get away with what certain shows did in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. We'll probably never again see the levels of blood we saw in DBZ. I imagine that was pushing the boundaries of what you could show on Japanese television even back then. If blood and impalement was what attracted you to this series in the first place, you need to reevaluate your priorities.

If we can keep getting well-choreographed action with interesting characters, I'll be here for life. That's always been the appeal. Stories can be tactful and tell an interesting, dramatic story without resorting to cheap gore to get their point across. I still can't believe so many fans have turned their backs on Toriyama and his world because of two measly lighthearted productions (the JUMP Special and the 2013 movie).

The terms you quoted aren't the most relevant ones. The one most relevant is "tension". When things are well made, even when we know that at the end of it everything will be fine, we can still feel the very satisfying "tension" in the key moments. Dragon Ball was built on more than just that kind of "tension", but it was a great part of made Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball. And the newer stuff simply lacks "tension". Like this topic tittle suggests, it feels too soft.

[MCDaveG]

I think they mean stuff like this:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 1007035329

Well, then the question is probably, did anime become too soft and retarded?
I'd say yes. Sadly, even Dragon Ball has to be made with some new standards.
I am also sad, that I won't see anime like Hokuto No Ken or old Gundam shows nowadays in TV.
It's all pop idol s**t, cute s**t and squealing girls for nerds. Not to mention the music.
I stopped watching Gundam Builders at the beginning of 4th episode because of that idol singing about Gundams.
I was embarassed being a Gundam fan. Not to mention Gundam SEED - bouncy junks and pop idol goes politics...

I have hope for JoJo's Bizzare Adventure tough. I saw first 12 episodes and it wasn't that bad. Really classic oldschool anime feel sans the modern animation.

[Bullza]

Its unfortunate that the violence has been toned down in anime yet the perverted hentai garbage is still around.

[Captain Space]

I think they mean stuff like this:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 1007035329

Well, then the question is probably, did anime become too soft and retarded?
I'd say yes. Sadly, even Dragon Ball has to be made with some new standards.
I am also sad, that I won't see anime like Hokuto No Ken or old Gundam shows nowadays in TV.
It's all pop idol s**t, cute s**t and squealing girls for nerds. Not to mention the music.
I stopped watching Gundam Builders at the beginning of 4th episode because of that idol singing about Gundams.
I was embarassed being a Gundam fan. Not to mention Gundam SEED - bouncy junks and pop idol goes politics...

I have hope for JoJo's Bizzare Adventure tough. I saw first 12 episodes and it wasn't that bad. Really classic oldschool anime feel sans the modern animation.

I would say there's still some old-school-style stuff, at least on the manga front. The Toriko anime was pretty bleh but the manga's great and that's really starting to hit its stride in the last couple years, and Saint Seiya: Next Dimension and Kamen Rider Spirits are currently ongoing. All of them properly badass.

[MagicBox]

The terms you quoted aren't the most relevant ones. The one most relevant is "tension". When things are well made, even when we know that at the end of it everything will be fine, we can still feel the very satisfying "tension" in the key moments. Dragon Ball was built on more than just that kind of "tension", but it was a great part of made Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball.

I agree with this, and I actually made a post about the importance of tension on the previous page.

But that's not what the first post of this thread is talking about. tx3 was specifically talking about how Dragon Ball now has "less muscle, less buff dudes" and how he prefers "more and more action" over "having fun and friends and love."

He wasn't talking about tension. He was talking about action. About violence. Other posters responded to talk about violence. The terms I quoted in that post were indeed the most relevant as far as this thread is concerned.

[MCDaveG]

I don't get this obsession with hardcore violence. Is it really that important to see blood splattering everywhere? That's something 14-year-olds pay attention to when they want to pretend that something they're watching is "mature." There are mindless slasher films out there if you want something to scratch that itch.

You can't even blame this on Toriyama. Sure, the man prefers comedy over action, but that doesn't explain why Dragon Ball Kai is airing on Japanese television with censored violence. The television and film industries have simply changed worldwide. You can no longer get away with what certain shows did in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. We'll probably never again see the levels of blood we saw in DBZ. I imagine that was pushing the boundaries of what you could show on Japanese television even back then. If blood and impalement was what attracted you to this series in the first place, you need to reevaluate your priorities.

If we can keep getting well-choreographed action with interesting characters, I'll be here for life. That's always been the appeal. Stories can be tactful and tell an interesting, dramatic story without resorting to cheap gore to get their point across. I still can't believe so many fans have turned their backs on Toriyama and his world because of two measly lighthearted productions (the JUMP Special and the 2013 movie).

I don't either, but when your favorite character has hole in the chest and is realistically bleeding, than it really is bad and there is the tension and you have a sense that something serious goes on.
Wars and real life battles doesn't look like Pokémon battles and that is what actually brought me to Dragon Ball, that even with the humour and adventure, the danger is serious and the heroes feel pain and battle hard.
I don't need to see blood streaks everywhere, but even little stream of blood from the mouth indicates that they are fighting serious, this is not stupid game and you feel more for you favorite characters.
I did like King-fu movies as a kid, not because of the violence, but the story, setting, design and when someone was bleeding, like in real life, you knew that something is going on.
I watched also Pokémon as a kid, but it turned me off for being repetitive and harmless dumb fun, when I encountered Dragon ball which took the Kung-fu genre to different level.
It was that they fight for survival in a serious battles, not to get some badge and later get their monsters that can't die healed. Those lighthearted and humorous moments even create a bigger contrast to that.

PS: I don't like Pokémon as a show, but I was a big fan of the games! It had the adventure and lighthearted fun, which made for a great time during summer holidays

[Captain Space]

(Although to sort of counter my own most recent post, some new-style, "softer" stuff can also be pretty good. Fullmetal Alchemist is in a pretty modern art style, but it's just a really great series.)

[MagicBox]

Its unfortunate that the violence has been toned down in anime yet the perverted hentai garbage is still around.

Dude, it's been toned down a TON. All Muten Roshi has to do nowadays to get slapped is mention something slightly flirty. He hasn't groped anybody in forever, and they absolutely wouldn't get away with showing breasts and butts like they used to. It's all toned down. It's impossible not to notice.

[Captain Space]

That's true. Half-naked Bulma (seen like twice in DB) wouldn't fly now.

[MCDaveG]

I would say there's still some old-school-style stuff, at least on the manga front. The Toriko anime was pretty bleh but the manga's great and that's really starting to hit its stride in the last couple years, and Saint Seiya: Next Dimension and Kamen Rider Spirits are currently ongoing. All of them properly badass.

[/quote]

Next Dimension is great, tough I am not much of a fan of going trough the House of Zodiac like 4th time. But I still enjoy it.
Can't wait for Soul Of Gold this year. They have the same designs as the original series and I wonder how does the story about Gold Saints turns out.

[Captain Space]

Yeah, I at least like that new stuff is happening within that. (And third time in canon, but yeah.) I'm really hoping it'll come off hiatus and we'll get a few chapters this year...

But yes, Soul of Gold. Intrigued. No idea what to expect. Looks very pretty...but then, so did Tenkai-hen Overture, and egh.

[Bullza]

Dude, it's been toned down a TON.

I was referring to Japanese animation in general.

[Kamiccolo9]

Its unfortunate that the violence has been toned down in anime yet the perverted hentai garbage is still around.

You must hate Scarz.

[MagicBox]

Dude, it's been toned down a TON.

I was referring to Japanese animation in general.

But if we're talking about "Japanese animation in general," you can still find violence and gore just as easily as perverted fanservice. You just have to look.

With Dragon Ball, both have been dialed back.

[Lord Beerus]

I don't think Dragon Ball is becoming too "soft" think. I just think there's just a bit more emphasis on creating comedy while still providing awesome fight scenes. I don't know how that equate to being "soft". Modern DBZ just feels like a retread to the Majin Boo arc and Saiyan Arc, where there was an awesome balance of action, comedy and drama.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, even late night series are a bit tame now. The broadcast will be edited but the home video will be unedited.

[Bullza]

Dude, it's been toned down a TON.

I was referring to Japanese animation in general.

But if we're talking about "Japanese animation in general," you can still find violence and gore just as easily as perverted fanservice. You just have to look.

With Dragon Ball, both have been dialed back.

It can still be found but its far less common that the perverted fan service which continues to drag shows down.

Fairy Tail, One Piece, High School of the Dead, Kenichi and pretty much most comedy shows are just plagued with this kind of crap sadly.

Still the amount of anime with violence doesn't compare to the amount with oversexulised underage girls.

[ekrolo2]

I never saw Dragon Ball as particularly bloody or violent to begin with, sure it had some scenes that stick out because of their violence (like Goku & Raditz getting blown through the chest) but it never went that over the top with it. Hell, even when the fighters are beaten to hell all they have is a lot of dirt, bloody scrapes and some generic blood coming out of their lips. It especially didn't seem necessary in BoG which was aiming for a much lighter tone plus Beerus' fighting style, ironically, was more focused on precision blows made to quickly take down an opponent instead of just massacring or blowing the shit out of them.

Really, if there was ever a time where Dragon Ball went a bit farther with the violence, it was when Freeza came onto the picture, after that it got progressively tamer and tamer.

[Bullza]

Really, if there was ever a time where Dragon Ball went a bit farther with the violence, it was when Freeza came onto the picture, after that it got progressively tamer and tamer.

The Buu arc was definitely the most violent saga of the lot. It was wrapped up in a lighter story so probably doesn't seem that way at first glance but the violence it did have was more than that of any of the others.