BoG/Rof & GT are not in the same universe.

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:27 pm

Barunks wrote:I just want to see a crossover between these two continuities so bad.

Dragon Ball Heroes is on that as we speak.

johnboy1 · Post by **johnboy1** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:41 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Barunks wrote:I just want to see a crossover between these two continuities so bad.
Dragon Ball Heroes is on that as we speak.

Is there a good fan-translation of the manga? I've been meaning to check it out.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:14 pm

rereboy wrote:
Basaku wrote: But Toei does.
No, it doesn't. Toei has never declared what is canon and isn't in Dragon Ball.

You're both somewhat right. There have been statements during BoG's release period that talked about it being apart of the "offical history" of Dragon Ball. I don't remember where in the world that was stated though, so it's possible I'm either wrong or misphrasing. Toriyama-sensei definitely set his movies apart from all the old ones with some of his statements in relationship to the manga, but neither of those pieces of data actually come close to acknowledging a proper canon or continuity. Still very open to interpretation.

DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:43 pm

Duo wrote:You're both somewhat right. There have been statements during BoG's release period that talked about it being apart of the "offical history" of Dragon Ball. I don't remember where in the world that was stated though, so it's possible I'm either wrong or misphrasing. Toriyama-sensei definitely set his movies apart from all the old ones with some of his statements in relationship to the manga, but neither of those pieces of data actually come close to acknowledging a proper canon or continuity. Still very open to interpretation.

You are correct about this, it was stated that BoG isn't a spin-off or a side-story, but part of the official history of Dragon Ball. This could just mean that it's not a random unimportant story, or a story that doesn't fit, but a continuation of the story. Spin-off/side-story doesn't mean non-canon from what I know.

If we really had a canon, the guidebooks & video-games would have make it clear, they wouldn't go by everything.

Basaku · Post by **Basaku** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:59 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Why haven't I seen it yet?

rereboy wrote:No, it doesn't. Toei has never declared what is canon and isn't in Dragon Ball.

Did everyone miss the press release for BOG where they stated it's part of the official story? Unless of course we wanna go for a silly argument that official totally doesn't mean canon in Toei execs' mind.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:48 pm

Basaku wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Why haven't I seen it yet?

rereboy wrote:No, it doesn't. Toei has never declared what is canon and isn't in Dragon Ball.
Did everyone miss the press release for BOG where they stated it's part of the official story? Unless of course we wanna go for a silly argument that official totally doesn't mean canon in Toei execs' mind.

I would definitely argue that "official history" is a much weaker statement than the strict concept of "canon" being used here. It is entirely likely that whomever at Toei animation is attempting to care about the subject would say that filler from the anime isn't canon (they did produce that content to fit with the original material, after all, even if it turned out to be crappy or accidentally plot-holed sometimes). On top of that, BoG goes by character color schemes and designs that are accurate to the anime but contradictory to the full color manga (See: Piccolo's arms, his number of fingers). That still leaves "official history" as a pretty open term still.

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:48 pm

I'm going to make use of what I posted on a thread elsewhere:

I have no problem with the movies not fitting nicely into the show. In fact, I embrace it. The idea of a fluid Dragon Ball continuity seems appropriate. I'd compare it to reading different books depicting the same myth. One telling might have details and tangents that the other doesn't and can't have because it's telling doesn't leave room for consistency. Yet I still enjoy both depictions and I don't hurt my brain by trying to reconcile them.

And I wager that in the big scheme of things, Toriyama feels that way too. Even if he chooses what to use and not to use for the sake of telling the story that he wants.

DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:37 am

Basaku wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Why haven't I seen it yet?

rereboy wrote:No, it doesn't. Toei has never declared what is canon and isn't in Dragon Ball.
Did everyone miss the press release for BOG where they stated it's part of the official story? Unless of course we wanna go for a silly argument that official totally doesn't mean canon in Toei execs' mind.

Check my post above yours.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:44 am

Basaku wrote:Did everyone miss the press release for BOG where they stated it's part of the official story? Unless of course we wanna go for a silly argument that official totally doesn't mean canon in Toei execs' mind.

To have a canon they would have to say what is canon and what isn't. That's what it means to establish a canon. They hardly clarified anything with that statement because they didn't define any parameters at all for a single continuity.

Bullza · Post by **Bullza** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:07 am

but GT isn't "non-canon."

Yes it is. It's not canon so it's non-canon.

ekrolo2 · Post by **ekrolo2** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:36 am

Bullza wrote:
but GT isn't "non-canon."

Yes it is. It's not canon so it's non-canon.

Its canon to the anime, not to the manga. Hell even back when it came out you'd have to stretch the facts quite a bit to make it work with the manga.

Confidence Matters · Post by **Confidence Matters** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:33 am

If people say GT is canon to the anime, then the latest and most accurate anime is Dragon Ball Z Kai, which give or take a few inconsistencies here or there, is pretty much the Manga.

So GT would still be in the same continuity of the manga.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:37 am

Those leaps of logic make no sense.

Confidence Matters · Post by **Confidence Matters** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:51 am

@rereboy

You must really hate GT, don't you? How about we contribute rather than making empty posts that don't do anything to help your point or help you understand?

Dragon Ball Z Kai (original japanese) is the main anime now, because it is both newer and more accurate to the original japanese manga, thus takes precedence over all other anime.

People are claiming that GT (original japanese) is a continuation of the anime.

That would essentially make GT a continuation of the Dragon Ball Z Manga.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:54 am

I've already commented on the topic of this thread. There is no canon because none, no single continuity, has been officially established with concrete parameters. For a canon to exist it's necessary for that to be established, otherwise we only have fan-canon and theories about what the official canon would be.

As for what you said, I also already commented. You make huge leaps in logic that simply don't make sense to me.

Travis Touchdown · Post by **Travis Touchdown** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:07 pm

Guys how often do we have to have the same argument? Why does the same thread keep getting made trying to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GT isn't canon?

Didn't we all agree that there is no official true word of god canon and that its all up to individual interpretation? I guess I dunno how the community came to agree upon that as a whole, but I love that view based on Toriyama ending the manga saying the fan has to look into Dragon World with their own eyes from then on.

Heck I would argue the new movies actually <i>help</i> GT's story make more sense but thats just how I see it and certainly don't declare it infallible canon.

Confidence Matters · Post by **Confidence Matters** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:13 pm

rereboy wrote: There is no canon because none, no single continuity, has been officially established with concrete parameters.

When the heads of the series state a plot/material happened within a time frame, that is established canon, and established continuity - unless either is noted otherwise.

It is stated BOG happened 3 years after Boo, ROF is stated to happen after BOG, GT is stated to happen after the events of Z, etc.

The only difference between GT and BOG & ROF is that GT was stated to be a side-story based on the events of Z - it's canonicity was noted otherwise by AT, and only its canonicity. Which makes it a non-canon continuation.

Cetra · Post by **Cetra** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:29 pm

Confidence Matters wrote: The only difference between GT and BOG & ROF is that GT was stated to be a side-story based on the events of Z - it's canonicity was noted otherwise by AT, and only its canonicity. Which makes it a non-canon continuation.

Side story does not mean not canon. And going by the rules of Dragon Ball asking again would probably even result in different answers because opinions were changed - even if they were different before, which I do not believe.

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:54 pm

Confidence Matters wrote:It is stated BOG happened 3 years after Boo, ROF is stated to happen after BOG, GT is stated to happen after the events of Z, etc.

BOG actually happens five years after the end of the Majin Boo arc.

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:18 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Confidence Matters wrote:It is stated BOG happened 3 years after Boo, ROF is stated to happen after BOG, GT is stated to happen after the events of Z, etc.
BOG actually happens five years after the end of the Majin Boo arc.

You're both wrong. It's four. The Buu Arc takes place in 774, while Battle of Gods is in 778.

Kanzenshuu

BoG/Rof & GT are not in the same universe.

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