Why did Vegeta think immortality would let him beat Freeza ?

[Saiga]

Guru had already died, as far as he was concerned his chance had gone.

Well by THAT point he's already zenkai'd his way past his old maximum as an Oozaru and believes that he's Freeza's equal, or close enough that the Earthlings can tip the scales.

Nah, I'm not convinced at all by your arguments. He basically stood around shaking in his boots whilst Piccolo fought Freeza, and had Krillin maim him for a Zenkai as a final gambit. Whilst he thought at the time it might work, I think it's fairly clear that once Freeza reached his final form, he knew he didn't have a chance. From there on in he knew he was pissing into the wind, he was running on pure pride.

What point are you trying to make? Vegeta was terrified of second form Freeza, but he openly said that he didn't expect Freeza's transformation to be a big difference - but it was, and that shattered his confidence and plan.

[Blade]

What point are you trying to make? Vegeta was terrified of second form Freeza, but he openly said that he didn't expect Freeza's transformation to be a big difference - but it was, and that shattered his confidence and plan.

Did you actually read the previous posts between myself and Rocketman? I'm arguing against Rocketman's belief that Vegeta believed himself to be the second most powerful being in the Universe both prior to, and during, the events on Namek.

[Kamiccolo9]

What point are you trying to make? Vegeta was terrified of second form Freeza, but he openly said that he didn't expect Freeza's transformation to be a big difference - but it was, and that shattered his confidence and plan.

Did you actually read the previous posts between myself and Rocketman? I'm arguing against Rocketman's belief that Vegeta believed himself to be the second most powerful being in the Universe both prior to, and during, the events on Namek.

Aside from Cold, for the most part, he was. Oozaru Vegeta was much stronger than any of the Ginyus, and Goku didn't pass that until his fight with Freeza.

[Blade]

What point are you trying to make? Vegeta was terrified of second form Freeza, but he openly said that he didn't expect Freeza's transformation to be a big difference - but it was, and that shattered his confidence and plan.

Did you actually read the previous posts between myself and Rocketman? I'm arguing against Rocketman's belief that Vegeta believed himself to be the second most powerful being in the Universe both prior to, and during, the events on Namek.

Aside from Cold, for the most part, he was. Oozaru Vegeta was much stronger than any of the Ginyus, and Goku didn't pass that until his fight with Freeza.

As discussed in the previous page at length, the drawbacks of the Oozaru form made its raw power empty and meaningless in the context, and regardless, the discussion is moot, as Vegeta knew full well that without a tail, he was unable to call upon it on Namek.

[Kamiccolo9]

As discussed in the previous page at length, the drawbacks of the Oozaru form made its raw power empty and meaningless in the context, and regardless, the discussion is moot, as Vegeta knew full well that without a tail, he was unable to call upon it on Namek.

It's not meaningless. The discussion was about strength. As far as strength goes, Vegeta was much stronger than everybody except Freeza while an Oozaru. The form's only drawback was its weakness concerning the tale, and for all we know, the Ginyus didn't know anything about that.

As for on Namek, Vegeta was overpowered by the Ginyus for like, an hour or two at most. After his power up, he was much stronger than any of them, and Goku as well.

[rereboy]

The form's only drawback was its weakness concerning the tale, and for all we know, the Ginyus didn't know anything about that.

That's not true at all.

The transformation, first of all, requires time. He doesn't transform immediately and if he has to create an artificial moon, it takes even longer. Facing the Ginyus, that alone would be enough for him to die.

Second of all, his artificial moon caused him to drop significantly in power, so using that he would never actually at full power.

Third, despite not losing speed, being that big makes all his targets much harder to hit since they become so small, and him much easier to hit, since he becomes so large.

Fourth, the ginyus seemed to be familiar enough with the usual capabilities of the saiyans, and what they should be able to do, becoming shocked at Goku's unnusual power and ginyu claiming that he was a mutant like them. There is absolutely no reason to believe that they somehow didn't know that the saiyans transformed into giant Oozaru thanks to their tails. And thus, that without them they stop being Oozaru.

Fifth, how is the fact that Vegeta lacked a tail on Namek, and he knew it, not relevant?