Super retelling BOG and ROF

[Zenkai]

These are basically Toei's options:

- You retell the movies within the series and tell anyone who has seen them that they have to juggle two different media- a film and a set of TV episodes- in their minds from here on out, something we have never had before. Bardock and the 2008 special "happened", but they're self-contained footnotes.

The 4 Dragon Ball movies are retellings of the series (with changes). What if this is the same, except in reverse?

[ParkerAL]

Let me get this straight. We're going to get Battle of Gods and Revival of F retold, but with markedly inferior animation?

Damn you Toei!

Okay, that may be a little harsh on my part. In truth, both movies could stand to benefit from having expanded plots (RoF much, much much more so than BoG), but come on. Based on Toei's track record, the trailer they've posted and the proportionally smaller budget allotted to TV series compared to films, Dragon Ball Super is going to look like ass compared to the two movies. And if you can't remake something to be better, there's little point in remaking it at all.

I know many people are probably willing to overlook lesser animation if it means more robust pacing and character development. Perfectly understandable. But ultimately an animated series has to be judged based on its animation. That's how the medium tells its stories. Visually. For that reason alone, it's going to take exceptional scripts for Dragon Ball Super to even hope to live up to its movie source material.

But that's just my two zeni.

[ABED]

Perfectly understandable. But ultimately an animated series has to be judged based on its animation. That's how the medium tells its stories.

Says who?

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

These are basically Toei's options:

- You retell the movies within the series and tell anyone who has seen them that they have to juggle two different media- a film and a set of TV episodes- in their minds from here on out, something we have never had before. Bardock and the 2008 special "happened", but they're self-contained footnotes.

The 4 Dragon Ball movies are retellings of the series (with changes). What if this is the same, except in reverse?

So long as there is only one version of those stories that we need reference from then on, and not this weird overlap. If Super's takes are what "actually happened", and Battle of Gods and Resurrection F are regulated to "Sweet Nothings" status like the rest of the movies, left to maintain value on their better animation and theatrical structure, that could work. I would simply find it a bit trashy for Toei to disown its new movies before the second even releases on home media. Series getting a second anime adaptation or continuation 18 months, two years afterward is something that happens, but if Super goes down this route, we will be scheduled for a new take on Resurrection F two months after it released. It would explain why Resurrection F had such a throwaway premise.

Based on Toei's track record, the trailer they've posted and the proportionally smaller budget allotted to TV series compared to films, Dragon Ball Super is going to look like ass compared to the two movies. And if you can't remake something to be better, there's little point in remaking it at all..

If Toei could pull-off the "Movie is pretty, Super is fleshed out" duality, you could find a reason.

[ParkerAL]

Says who?

Animation is the art of using moving pictures to tell stories. Dragon Ball Super is an animated series. Hence, its quality will rest in large part on how well its animation works. It doesn't have to look amazing. I never expected anything other than functional animation like the original series had. But now its setting itself up at a disadvantage from the start by inviting comparisons between it and two other recent works. If it hopes to stand up as a palpable alternative, its going to have to pull off its plot exceptionally well to make up for falling short visually.

[Hellspawn28]

If they where going to retell the new movies then make them short. We don't need 50 episodes to beat Beerus or Golden Freeza. The old DBZ formula needs to stop since it hurts the series. People always joke about how long it takes for fights to be over in DBZ. As bad GT was, at least the pacing was better then DBZ.

[fadeddreams5]

Isn't the pacing actually better in GT? It flows better, IIRC.

[Hellspawn28]

The pacing in GT was better then it was in DBZ. However GT shows short when it comes to story telling in my opinion. I remember it took 10 episodes to beat Bebi compare to Freeza, Cell and Buu.

[ABED]

Animation is the art of using moving pictures to tell stories. Dragon Ball Super is an animated series. Hence, its quality will rest in large part on how well its animation works. It doesn't have to look amazing. I never expected anything other than functional animation like the original series had. But now its setting itself up at a disadvantage from the start by inviting comparisons between it and two other recent works. If it hopes to stand up as a palpable alternative, its going to have to pull off its plot exceptionally well to make up for falling short visually.

The quality looks fine, and being a well animated movie doesn't mean it's a better story.

The pacing in GT was better then it was in DBZ. However GT shows short when it comes to story telling in my opinion. I remember it took 10 episodes to beat Bebi compare to Freeza, Cell and Buu.

Shorter doesn't mean better. I'll take the fight against Freeza over any fight in GT. I like GT, but one of its biggest faults is its terrible fights.

[FortuneSSJ]

The last thing we need for Super is fights dragging for 20 episodes. DBZ only did this for boss battles, but Goku vs Freeza is a exaggeration. No doubt about it.
I don't feel very proud for that being the longest fight ever.

I can say the other arcs dragged their final battles too, even though its the right move for the final battle being longer than the others. But all of them kept me interested until the end, because of the good plot-twists and not being that long compared to Freeza final battle. Which I only love it from when SSj Goku appears until the end.

Saiyan arc final battle:
- Goku is beating Vegeta.
- Vegeta turns Oozaru and beats Goku.
- Yajirobe cuts Vegeta's tail and he turns back to normal.
- Vegeta fights Gohan and Krillin. Gets hit by Genkidama.
- Vegeta survives. Gohan grows his tail, turns Oozaru and beats him.
- Vegeta cuts Gohan's tail, both fall.
- Krillin gonna finish him off. Goku asks him to spare Vegeta and Vegeta lives.
(Still the best arc ever)

Cell arc final battle:
- Goku fights Cell.
- Goku gives up for the first time and calls out Gohan.
- Gohan doesn't get angry. A16 tries to kill Cell, but fails and its killed instead.
- Cell create Cell Juniors and attack Z Fighters.
- Gohan finally gets angry. Kills the Cell Juniors and Beats Cell.
- Cell becomes a bomb and plans to destroy everything. Goku saves the earth and dies.
- Cell survived and kills trunks.
- Gohan kills him with Vegeta's help.

Buu arc final battle:
- Goku fights Kid Buu. Goku loses.
- Vegeta fights Kid Buu. Vegeta loses. Goku comes in.
- Goku wants to power up. Vegeta buys time and gets tortured.
- Satan comes to play causing Majin Buu to appear.
- Majin Buu fights Kid Buu. Goku starts the Genkidama.
- Vegeta buys time. Most earthlings don't help.
- Satan speaks and Genkidama is ready.
- Goku fires the Genkidama but hasn't any strenght left to make it past Kid Buu.
- Porunga gives him Ki. Kid Buu gets killed.

All this final battles are full of plot-twists, now lets look to Freeza final battle arc:

- Goku fights Freeza. Freeza keeps having the upper hand.
- Goku starts the Genkidama. (Freeza barely does anything at first and is just looking at him).
- Piccolo buys time. Krillin and Gohan help too in the end.
- Genkidama is ready and hits Freeza.
- Freeza survives and kills Krillin.
- Goku becomes ssj.
- Both fight. Goku wins.

I put the plot-twists in bold.

[ABED]

I'm not sure most of these qualify as plot twists, they are interesting moments but it's not like finding out Rosebud is a sled, for instance, how do Vegeta turning Great Ape or Vegeta fighting Buu after Goku qualify? Goku giving up and tagging in Gohan is one, but most of the others aren't moments where the plot radically changes direction.

[supercat]

Following the confirmation that Battle Of Gods and Resurrection F are going to adapted into arcs for Dragon Ball Super, do you feel as though this was a good idea? Or do you feel as though this was an unnecessary retcon that just only adds further confusion to the continuity of Dragon Ball? I'm personally torn about this. I loved Battle Of Gods as it was, and the fact that the story will most likely be significantly changed, upsets me. However, on one hand, ROF could certainly uses for a bit of retooling and addition of more context and content. And of course there's the elephant in the room that is the 2008 OVA, which has been caught in the middle of the continuity retcon fiasco. And following the details of the plot of the Super and the time placement of where the plot begins, where does that fit in now?

I too felt that BoG was great as it was, and would much prefer not to see it undergo major alterations. The story should resume after the events have unfolded the way they have in the movie, as I was quite pleased by how the new characters were initially introduced. Throw that in with the new transformation sequence being so seamless, and the deep character development that was outwardly shown, and we have an amazing string of events.

I also agree with your perspective on how FnF could benefit from additional content. I hope that some of the vague factors that had no clear explanation will be addressed more thoroughly in Super. For one, I'd love to finally get some insight on Shisami's power and even get a glimpse of Frieza himself training.

[Polyphase Avatron]

So wait, which version of the events is the canon (yes, I know people hate that word) one then? The films or the TV version? If things happen in one that contradict the other, how do we decide which one to go with?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

It'll depend entirely on what you're talking about, though I imagine Super's continuity might take precedence overall seeing how there will be another whole arc set after the film adaptation in that continuity and building off their changed events.

It might be interesting if they decide to continue both continuities as alternate timelines or whatever. Where Super has its adaption of BOG, F and U6, and then the films have BOG, F and then a third that starts something entirely different and not related to Super.

[Luso Saiyan]

So wait, which version of the events is the canon (yes, I know people hate that word) one then? The films or the TV version?

They are one and the same. Both will complement each other.

If things happen in one that contradict the other, how do we decide which one to go with?

Probably the series.

[90sDBZ]

I think this is a pretty pointless idea. I haven't yet seen RoF, but BoG is a great movie that doesn't need a remake. Sure it has its flaws with the inconsistent tone, but it still deserves to stand as its own thing. Now it's like they're going the route of DB movies 1-4, with 2 versions of the same story arcs. I'm not usually one to obsess over canon, but this really is going to cause all sorts of confusion among the more casual fans. I mean BoG was supposed to be Toriyama's extension of the Manga. It, along with RoF, are still really new and are already been retconed from the Toriyama-verse. At the very least this could be there chance to make things connect to GT better although I wouldn't hold my breath.

[NeoKING]

The pacing in GT was better then it was in DBZ. However GT shows short when it comes to story telling in my opinion. I remember it took 10 episodes to beat Bebi compare to Freeza, Cell and Buu.

Wouldn't that depend on which fight? It wasn't just Goku fighting Baby for those 10 episodes. Plus, Goku and Baby fought twice. Then you had the Uub vs. Baby battle. Finally, Goku vs. Baby fight (Round 3) only took about 5 episodes if I recall.

It's unfair to compare that with the Freeza battle, which lasted about the same amount of time or longer in Kai [so was probably longer in the original series].

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

The pacing in GT was better then it was in DBZ. However GT shows short when it comes to story telling in my opinion. I remember it took 10 episodes to beat Bebi compare to Freeza, Cell and Buu.

That´s one of the thing GT got right, i´d want Super to take some notes from some western cartoons fights, which they generally don´t last more than 1 episode (say the fights lass less than 5 minutes, if you sum all the fighting scenes and exclude the rest) but even if they do, the fight is fragmented throught the episodes.

[ABED]

The pacing in GT was better then it was in DBZ. However GT shows short when it comes to story telling in my opinion. I remember it took 10 episodes to beat Bebi compare to Freeza, Cell and Buu.

<br abp="688">That´s one of the thing GT got right, i´d want Super to take some notes from some western cartoons fights, which they generally don´t last more than 1 episode (say the fights lass less than 5 minutes, if you sum all the fighting scenes and exclude the rest) but even if they do, the fight is fragmented throught the episodes.

They aren't as heavily serialized as DB and generally aren't as centered around fighting. Why would you want the climactic fights to only last one episode?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

For me, DBSuper retelling BoG and RoF, have the same purpose as Marvel/DC retelling the origin stories of their superheroes.