Goku and Vegeta should have been retired as leads

[sintzu]

You could do that if the franchise was known for changing the leads on a regular bases but to try and change Goku who's been the lead from the 1st arc of DB and Vegeta who joined him in Z would more then likely blow up in their faces in every way possible.

Could they do it once down the line ? maybe cause they did it in the Cell arc and it worked pretty well but they'd still have to play a major role in it and whoever would have to be someone on par with them and well written like Beerus who I think should be a regular main character alongside them moving foreword.

[garfield15]

You could do that if the franchise was known for changing the leads on a regular bases but to try and change Goku who's been the lead from the 1st arc of DB and Vegeta who joined him in Z would more then likely blow up in their faces in every way possible.

Could they do it once down the line ? maybe cause they did it in the Cell arc and it worked pretty well but they'd still have to play a major role in it and whoever would have to be someone on par with them and well written like Beerus who I think should be a regular main character alongside them moving foreword.

But I don't want them to change Goku and Vegeta as leads either. I watch and read this story because I like Goku.

I'm just saying let the other characters have their own fights and subplots stuff. Hell, I am really hoping Universe 6 is a new adventure in every meaning of the word. I would be totally okay with Toriyama taking some pointers from Oda and have everybody having something going on that ties into the final battle

[meiaman]

Goku is a good character, problem with him is that you can't expect anything else from him. He has been there, done that, and many times. Worse is the ridiculous gap between him and the other characters makes him even more prominent and reduces everyone else to commentary/comedy roles (aside from Vegeta), or to beat up the ocasional minion.


From the way i see it, the fanbase is divided about him:

The ones that believe the show grew stale because of the focus that goku gets.

The ones that are satisfied with him.

[Xeztin]

Toriyama originally was going to have Gohan take over as the lead after the Cell Saga, but at some point he realized that Gohan was not like Goku, especially since Gohan did not want to fight unless he had too, so it would be doubtful if he trained (like now) until a threat to Earth came along and by then it would be too late.
Of course Toriyama wasn't going to end DBZ without Goku having an apprentice, as that is what Dragon Ball is about (Master teaching Apprentice) which was Uub.
I believe it ended the way it did because Toriyama made it to where if he wanted to come back, he could picking up with Goku training Uub.
GT did this and it pretty much ruined Uub which is probably not what Toriyama had planned for him as he was supposed to be Goku's eventual Successor after all which is why instead of continuing from the ending he went back to the 10 year gap starting with the Battle of God's Saga beforehand.
As the way the story is going now, I think the ending of Dragon Ball will be changed, or at least certain aspects of it.
If this is the case, and Super is a ratings monster from beginning to end, then I'd safely bet a sequel Dragon Ball Series or a spin-off will be made after Super comes to it's end and will focus on New Heroes.
I think it would be neat, if Toriyama passed the torch to another to continue Dragon Ball after Super, who wrote/drawn in the style of Toriyama such as Toyotaro who is learning under him with the DB Super manga and such and eventually have a anime series adapted from their work.
Some would say this would just cause a second GT catastrophe but if the series took place after Goku's time, or did not include Goku and Vegeta in any major plot way, and they were retired or what have you, and it had Toyotaros original Characters, and Plot I think it would be pretty cool
as far as the whole cannon thing some would argue, since it is done by two different authors and have no relations to each other then being in the Dragon Ball World, I really don't think it would matter.
It wouldn't even have to take place on Earth, or deal with the human race, but as proven Dragon Ball is simply just to big to end, ever since it did in the 90's, Hoax sequel manga's, fake commercials, and Video games kept trying to breath life back into the series in hope that it would grab the attention of Akira Toriyama.
with all that going on it was just a matter of time until it did and here we are now with Super.

[Rockman X]

I agree with removing Goku he's a godddamn autistic child in terms of emotional maturity but WHY VEGETA? he's the best character the series has to offer! I want his murdering psychopathic old self again! It never gets old! i can watch an entire series where all Vegeta does is kill everything!

I'm sorry but Present trunks sucks and goten was never a good character to begin with.. the only interesting character left are Tien,Piccolo&Gohan.

[Lord Beerus]

I agree with removing Goku he's a godddamn autistic child in terms of emotional maturity but WHY VEGETA? he's the best character the series has to offer! I want his murdering psychopathic old self again! It never gets old! i can watch an entire series where all Vegeta does is kill everything!

So you want character regression?

[Hellspawn28]

I remember when the 2008 Jump special came out, everyone bitch about how Goten and Trunks had too much screen time and not enough for Vegeta or Goku. Now people want Goku and Vegeta retired as leads .

[Lord Beerus]

I remember when the 2008 Jump special came out, everyone bitch about how Goten and Trunks had too much screen time and not enough for Vegeta or Goku. Now people want Goku and Vegeta retired as leads .

The US Dragon Ball fanbase can be quite fickle at times.

[Rockman X]

So you want character regression?

how is that character regressing? Vegeta killing enemies is one of his character traits like goku letting his enemies live Vegeta is the anti-hero of the series not a hero like Goku if Vegeta was on earth he would've straight up slaughtered Freeza's men in Revival of F..making this face

[fadeddreams5]

if Vegeta was on earth he would've straight up slaughtered Freeza's men in Revival of F..making this face

Not in the modern stuff. lol. The Vegeta of old is gone.

[Lord Beerus]

So you want character regression?

how is that character regressing? Vegeta killing enemies is one of his character traits like goku letting his enemies live Vegeta is the anti-hero of the series not a hero like Goku if Vegeta was on earth he would've straight up slaughtered Freeza's men in Revival of F..making this face

Vegeta may kill but, it's not out of pleasure or pride like it was in his past psychopathic and villainy days. He only kills out of necessity nowadays. Much like what Goku went through when he understood the concept of mercy.

Not in the modern stuff. lol. The Vegeta of old is gone.

Yes, the Vegeta of old is gone because he went through significant character development in the Majin Boo arc and BOG.

[ABED]

Vegeta may kill but, it's not out of pleasure or pride like it was in his past psychopathic and villainy days. He only kills out of necessity nowadays. Much like what Goku went through when he understood the concept of mercy.

Goku never killed for pleasure or "pride".

[SylentEcho]

if Vegeta was on earth he would've straight up slaughtered Freeza's men in Revival of F..making this face

Not in the modern stuff. lol. The Vegeta of old is gone.

"Grown" is more like it. Gone is a bit much. I'm sure he'd still slaughter people he really has to, at the drop of a hat.

Vegeta and Goku retiring as leads? That ship sailed as soon as the Boo arc started. Goku and Vegeta are just too popular and Gohan wasn't nearly as entertaining and kooky as Goku was. I don't think the people would have accepted Gohan. Secondly, who else would be the lead guy next to him? Vegeta isn't a good fit and Trunks was too young. I think the Boo arc was pretty balanced, in that the arc was about the kids for quite a while until the end when Goku and Vegeta needed to fuse. Gohan got a huge push, but it would have been boring, had he destroyed Boo. For old time's sake Goku had to be the guy because the series was ending and he hadn't actually defeated anyone in ages and even quit against Cell!

Now that Dragon Ball has made a comeback with Super, Goku has to be number one for a while! It's like this - what if WWE/WWF shut down in 1990 and made a comeback now? Hulk Hogan would have to be the flagship for a while before they passed the torch on to others again because he's the most recognizable.

[Lord Beerus]

Vegeta may kill but, it's not out of pleasure or pride like it was in his past psychopathic and villainy days. He only kills out of necessity nowadays. Much like what Goku went through when he understood the concept of mercy.

Goku never killed for pleasure or "pride".

I worded that wrong. I didn't mean that Goku killed out of pleasure or pride. I meant to imply that Goku went through significant character development much like Vegeta did.

[ABED]

Vegeta may kill but, it's not out of pleasure or pride like it was in his past psychopathic and villainy days. He only kills out of necessity nowadays. Much like what Goku went through when he understood the concept of mercy.

Goku never killed for pleasure or "pride".

I worded that wrong. I didn't mean that Goku killed out of pleasure or pride. I meant to imply that Goku went through significant character development much like Vegeta did.

When? I would argue there are a few times he truly let someone go or tried out of mercy. For instance, Tao Pai Pai, Raditz, and Freeza. Either it ends up badly or he ends up having to kill them anyway. The other times he wanted to fight them again, or at least someone out there that would push him to get better. His reasons for letting villains go is typically self indulgent. H

[SylentEcho]

Vegeta may kill but, it's not out of pleasure or pride like it was in his past psychopathic and villainy days. He only kills out of necessity nowadays. Much like what Goku went through when he understood the concept of mercy.

Goku never killed for pleasure or "pride".

I worded that wrong. I didn't mean that Goku killed out of pleasure or pride. I meant to imply that Goku went through significant character development much like Vegeta did.

Goku pretty much stays the same throughout the series. He was a little ruthless as a kid and had no issues killing bad guys. This changed a little as the series progressed and he became gentler, while his love for battle became more preeminent. After achieving SSJ, he was way more anxious for a challenge even willing to not preempt the Artificial Humans.

Overall, as an adult, Goku becomes a little more selfish and carefree. He chooses to save Piccolo and Vegeta so that he could fight them another time. He also gave Vegeta a senzu on Namek mainly because he wanted a match with him later and not because he saved Gohan and Kurrirn. He matures a lot after Cell dies, stating that Gohan is a much better guy than he is and chooses to not come back to life. This is also because he wants to challenge a lot of dead fighters in heaven. So, he doesn't go through very significant character development. He just gets a little smarter, in fact a little more than he lets on, but basically he's the same guy throughout the series unlike Vegeta in the Boo arc. In the Boo arc, Vegeta changes a lot; he hugs his son, thinks of Bulma as a his wife and not just another woman, gives his life up knowing he's going to hell and will lose his body forever and accepts Goku as a better fighter than he is.

[fadeddreams5]

Yes, the Vegeta of old is gone because he went through significant character development in the Majin Boo arc and BOG.

He had an epiphany at the verrry end of the Buu saga. Besides acknowledging Goku's superiority and warming up to his family, his tendencies in battles shouldn't have changed at all. And they may not have, but I can't see him displaying his murderous self unless it's against someone pure evil who threatens the planet, like Frieza.

Doing what he did against the Ginyu Force or Pui Pui would be far too violent. =/

[ABED]

Yes, the Vegeta of old is gone because he went through significant character development in the Majin Boo arc and BOG.

He had an epiphany at the verrry end of the Buu saga. Besides acknowledging Goku's superiority and warming up to his family, his tendencies in battles shouldn't have changed at all. And they may not have, but I can't see him displaying his murderous self unless it's against someone pure evil who threatens the planet, like Freeza.

Doing what he did against the Ginyu Force or Pui Pui would be far too violent. =/

This might be pedantic of me, but I wouldn't call it murder if someone pure evil threatened the planet and his family. Vegeta would be fully justified in killing them.

[SylentEcho]

This might be pedantic of me, but I wouldn't call it murder if someone pure evil threatened the planet and his family. Vegeta would be fully justified in killing them.

He did kill that entire village of Namekians, though. This double-axe-handle was epic.

[Lord Beerus]

Not much character development. Goku pretty much stays the same throughout the series. He was a little ruthless as a kid and had no issues killing bad guys. This changed a little as the series progressed and he became gentler, while his love for battle became more preeminent. After achieving SSJ, he was way more anxious for a challenge even willing to not preempt the Artificial Humans.

Overall, as an adult, Goku becomes a little more selfish and carefree. He chooses to save Piccolo and Vegeta so that he could fight them another time. He also gave Vegeta a senzu on Namek mainly because he wanted a match with him later and not because he saved Gohan and Kurrirn. He matures a lot after Cell dies, stating that Gohan is a much better guy than he is and chooses to not come back to life. This is also because he wants to challenge a lot of dead fighters in heaven. So, he doesn't go through very significant character development. He just gets a little smarter, in fact a little more than he lets on, but basically he's the same guy throughout the series unlike Vegeta in the Boo arc. In the Boo arc, Vegeta changes a lot; he hugs his son, thinks of Bulma as a his wife and not just another woman, gives his life up knowing he's going to hell and will lose his body forever and accepts Goku as a better fighter than he is.

But the character development that Goku goes many not have been significant in content but its significance lies within how it drives the story forward. Goku's qualms of killing his enemies were not as apparent as adult as he was when he was a child. Yes, Goku did kill him enemies if the time called for it, but he always saw for another option when battling his opponents as he grew older. Whether it was because he wanted to fight them again (Piccolo and Vegeta) or that they were obviously in state that they could defend themselves, and in which case, he would let them live (Nappa, Recoome, Burter, Ginyu and Freeza). If he still had the same mentality as an adult as he did as child, he could have killed the likes Piccolo, Vegeta,The Ginyu Force, Freeza, Dr Gero etc, right off the bat and the story is drastically different as a result. And besides, it was Goku's drive to better himself through battle rather than going straight for the kill that ultimately proved a catalyst is Vegeta incredibly important epiphany in the Majin Boo arc, too.