I did think the blue form was an altered Super Saiyan, meaning Goku and Vegeta would always have blue hair instead of yellow due to their inner energy being now blue (Godly). As a way to refresh the old Super Saiyan "blond hair" concept we've seen for decades.
But given that we now have proof of the contrary, it just means that Goku and Vegeta can access both forms of energy and both kinds of transformations, the weaker old-fashionned Super Saiyan and the almighty refreshing Super Saiyan Blue that remains the supreme star transformation that makes everyone think "serious stuff is going down now".
Plus, the fact that they can go both ways is in line with the fact that we still see Goku going Super Saiyan in the opening, which would be a thing of the past not to be featured in the opening otherwise.
Despite Toriyama claiming he doesn't envision Goku using Super Saiyan 2 and 3 again, he still could if he wanted to show his true strength gradually: Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Super Saiyan Blue.
Even though, until proven otherwise (again?), I rather think that the color has become the new way to show the levels, so it will likely graduate like: Base --> Super Saiyan --> Super Saiyan Blue.
Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in DBS?
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
Cold Skin wrote:I did think the blue form was an altered Super Saiyan, meaning Goku and Vegeta would always have blue hair instead of yellow due to their inner energy being now blue (Godly). As a way to refresh the old Super Saiyan "blond hair" concept we've seen for decades.
But given that we now have proof of the contrary, it just means that Goku and Vegeta can access both forms of energy and both kinds of transformations, the weaker old-fashionned Super Saiyan and the almighty refreshing Super Saiyan Blue that remains the supreme star transformation that makes everyone think "serious stuff is going down now".
Plus, the fact that they can go both ways is in line with the fact that we still see Goku going Super Saiyan in the opening, which would be a thing of the past not to be featured in the opening otherwise.
Despite Toriyama claiming he doesn't envision Goku using Super Saiyan 2 and 3 again, he still could if he wanted to show his true strength gradually: Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Super Saiyan Blue.
Even though, until proven otherwise (again?), I rather think that the color has become the new way to show the levels, so it will likely graduate like: Base --> Super Saiyan --> Super Saiyan Blue.
Umm the timeline went SSG then Goku went SSJ while fighting Beerus and having God Ki. Then Vegeta and Goku go into RoSaT for 3 years and out pops a SSJ in the first battle. We dont actually KNOW anything yet other than he looks different. Can he access both? We don't know yet.
Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
I know that Toriyama never intended to make SsGod Goku red, but he had to show to the viewer somehow that Goku achieved a new stage that's why Toriyama didn't change much in SsGod and turned back to regular Ssj, hope the same goes for Ssj Blue when they fully master it or maybe a mix of yellow and blue
Last edited by shinmaru on Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GodVegetto91
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
Except that SSGSS is only a very small increase over his Base in RoF. (Though still significant ofcourse) it's actually the same with regular Super Saiyan Goku in BoG. He's only "a little bit" stronger then his base. While still "significantly". We know that based on feats. So if SSJB really is less than a 2 x increase. Normal Super Saiyan should give Goku exactly the same increase.Cold Skin wrote:I did think the blue form was an altered Super Saiyan, meaning Goku and Vegeta would always have blue hair instead of yellow due to their inner energy being now blue (Godly). As a way to refresh the old Super Saiyan "blond hair" concept we've seen for decades.
But given that we now have proof of the contrary, it just means that Goku and Vegeta can access both forms of energy and both kinds of transformations, the weaker old-fashionned Super Saiyan and the almighty refreshing Super Saiyan Blue that remains the supreme star transformation that makes everyone think "serious stuff is going down now".
Plus, the fact that they can go both ways is in line with the fact that we still see Goku going Super Saiyan in the opening, which would be a thing of the past not to be featured in the opening otherwise.
Despite Toriyama claiming he doesn't envision Goku using Super Saiyan 2 and 3 again, he still could if he wanted to show his true strength gradually: Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Super Saiyan Blue.
Even though, until proven otherwise (again?), I rather think that the color has become the new way to show the levels, so it will likely graduate like: Base --> Super Saiyan --> Super Saiyan Blue.
So there really shouldn't be any room for regular Super Saiyan to fit in between Base and SSGSS. Since they both give Goku the same "small" yet "significant" boost.
So by all counts IF he WERE to turn regular Super Saiyan.(Which makes absolutely NO darn sense!) since his inner power source is now God Ki! Then he would still be exactly as strong as SSGSS. (Only difference is one has god ki, the other doesn't)
Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
In ROF, the God Ki merged and he was still able to go SSJ while fighting Beerus after the time limit expired which brought him up close to SSG levels.
So.
SSJ way less than SSJ3 way less than Beerus.
SSG can fight Beerus. No SSG but some merged God Ki+Regular SSSJ is close to SSG in power.
Confused? Yeah it is.
So.
SSJ way less than SSJ3 way less than Beerus.
SSG can fight Beerus. No SSG but some merged God Ki+Regular SSSJ is close to SSG in power.
Confused? Yeah it is.
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GodVegetto91
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
I'd rather they just get rid of regular Super Saiyan altogether. And completely replace it with SSGSS.
It makes things so confusing to still have Super Saiyan around now. And i've simply grown tired of the Golden/Yellow look we've seen for decades now.
I have a feeling Akira Toriyama and Toei have a thing for normal Super Saiyan. Like they're all stucked in Nostalgia Mode or something. (Just because it's iconic^^)
It makes things so confusing to still have Super Saiyan around now. And i've simply grown tired of the Golden/Yellow look we've seen for decades now.
I have a feeling Akira Toriyama and Toei have a thing for normal Super Saiyan. Like they're all stucked in Nostalgia Mode or something. (Just because it's iconic^^)
Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
Right, Akira Toriyama was far more involved in BoG than RoF and kept SSJ even with God Ki and from what I've read, he didn't even want Goku's hair to be red let alone turn blue. (From what I read, he never wanted it to be blue either and it wasn't his idea). I think Akira does prefer the iconic design he made and it could be a means for getting it back to what he wanted.GodVegetto91 wrote:I'd rather they just get rid of regular Super Saiyan altogether. And completely replace it with SSGSS.
It makes things so confusing to still have Super Saiyan around now. And i've simply grown tired of the Golden/Yellow look we've seen for decades now.
I have a feeling Akira Toriyama and Toei have a thing for normal Super Saiyan. Like they're all stucked in Nostalgia Mode or something. (Just because it's iconic^^)
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Pannaliciour
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
Hmm, if Goku isn't using his full power but only ssj, why does he lose then to Frost?
The moment Goku turned ssj, Fros became final form. Why? Unlike freeza he trained and so he can read Ki? Or he saw this form (ssj) also in his universe and knows it is something strong?
The moment Goku turned ssj, Fros became final form. Why? Unlike freeza he trained and so he can read Ki? Or he saw this form (ssj) also in his universe and knows it is something strong?
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GodVegetto91
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
Source?TheMikado wrote:Right, Akira Toriyama was far more involved in BoG than RoF and kept SSJ even with God Ki and from what I've read, he didn't even want Goku's hair to be red let alone turn blue. (From what I read, he never wanted it to be blue either and it wasn't his idea). I think Akira does prefer the iconic design he made and it could be a means for getting it back to what he wanted.GodVegetto91 wrote:I'd rather they just get rid of regular Super Saiyan altogether. And completely replace it with SSGSS.
It makes things so confusing to still have Super Saiyan around now. And i've simply grown tired of the Golden/Yellow look we've seen for decades now.
I have a feeling Akira Toriyama and Toei have a thing for normal Super Saiyan. Like they're all stucked in Nostalgia Mode or something. (Just because it's iconic^^)
Where did you read it?
I've read Chuquita's theory and it actually makes sense if that were the case. Though still highly unlikely ofcourse. Since i don't think SSJB is going anywhere anytime soon.
Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
^ Just reread the Akira interview and it was an interview that had been spliced with parts from another interview. Ignore the he didn't want/design it part.
But originally in BoF he appears to not want to change anything but needed a visual indicator.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -toriyama/
"I was resistant to [the idea of] Goku getting more and more macho, or having a flashy transformation, so I wanted to make a course-correction. Except, visually-speaking, a Goku who doesn’t have any change at all would be difficult to understand, so I changed just his hair color and his eyes."
But originally in BoF he appears to not want to change anything but needed a visual indicator.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -toriyama/
"I was resistant to [the idea of] Goku getting more and more macho, or having a flashy transformation, so I wanted to make a course-correction. Except, visually-speaking, a Goku who doesn’t have any change at all would be difficult to understand, so I changed just his hair color and his eyes."
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
I'm not sure if Goku & Vegeta pre-RoSaT could go regular Super Saiyan. When they were sparring in their base forms, Vegeta went SSB against base Goku. Why would he use his most powerful form against base Goku and hold back at the same time? He could have just gone regular SS in order to overpower him. Not to mention that, IMO, it is heavily implied that base Goku & Vegeta were at SSG level, and SSB is implied to have a small multiplier. For now, I'll go under the assumption that Goku & Vegeta have learned how to fully control the power of SSG, and can "deactivate" its power in their base form.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
Well I hope that someone picks up that phone. Because I fucking called it.Kamiccolo9 wrote:Super Saiyan is by far the most popular and well-known transformation in the series. We haven't seen the last of it.
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
Goku goes SS during his fight with Beerus after he already absorbed God Ki and was able to nearly match SSG. Meaning his base SSJ form was augmented by the God Ki meaning Goku can go SSJ with God Ki in his body. That's been established by RoF.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I'm not sure if Goku & Vegeta pre-RoSaT could go regular Super Saiyan. When they were sparring in their base forms, Vegeta went SSB against base Goku. Why would he use his most powerful form against base Goku and hold back at the same time? He could have just gone regular SS in order to overpower him. Not to mention that, IMO, it is heavily implied that base Goku & Vegeta were at SSG level, and SSB is implied to have a small multiplier. For now, I'll go under the assumption that Goku & Vegeta have learned how to fully control the power of SSG, and can "deactivate" its power in their base form.
We have no evidence God Ki can be turned on or off but we have evidence you can go SSJ with God Ki and have that form augmented with the God Ki.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
But regular SS didn't seem to make Goku much stronger against Beerus.TheMikado wrote:Goku goes SS during his fight with Beerus after he already absorbed God Ki and was able to nearly match SSG. Meaning his base SSJ form was augmented by the God Ki meaning Goku can go SSJ with God Ki in his body. That's been established by RoF.
I'm not stating this as a fact, this is just an assumption I have until we get an explanation. It's the most logical so far IMO, and if it turns out that it works like that it would explain why Piccolo would have a chance against Frost, assuming that Goku will lose before getting the chance to use any other form.TheMikado wrote:We have no evidence God Ki can be turned on or off but we have evidence you can go SSJ with God Ki and have that form augmented with the God Ki.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
^ SSJ did when give a power boost. When Goku went base he started losing, went SSJ and it evened out to near SSG levels. It even says so on the Dragonball wiki.
I'll buy the turn off/on theory if only for keeping every close to the same tier.
However I doubt Beerus really was looking for everyone to be competitive against every fighter. What I mean is if the players were cards.
Monaka and Hit would be Aces.
Vegeta, Goku, and Frost would be King level.
Everyone else would be 5sand just fodder.
Botonma power level wasn't very strong at all. Probably no more the SSJ3 level. Which Boo and possible Piccolo could be around.
Either way I will accept they could use it as a possible mechanism to fix power scaling.
I'll buy the turn off/on theory if only for keeping every close to the same tier.
However I doubt Beerus really was looking for everyone to be competitive against every fighter. What I mean is if the players were cards.
Monaka and Hit would be Aces.
Vegeta, Goku, and Frost would be King level.
Everyone else would be 5sand just fodder.
Botonma power level wasn't very strong at all. Probably no more the SSJ3 level. Which Boo and possible Piccolo could be around.
Either way I will accept they could use it as a possible mechanism to fix power scaling.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
Goku was already losing before going back to base. He actually did better in base than he did as a Super Saiyan God at full power. Beerus also said that Goku's power didn't decrease much after losing God, and he went to base after losing SSG.TheMikado wrote:^ SSJ did when give a power boost. When Goku went base he started losing, went SSJ and it evened out to near SSG levels.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
Correct me if I'm wrong, but after BOG Movie, Goku did not have to use SSJ - 3 anymore, as he obtained God power, similar to Gohan Elder Kaioshin powerup?
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Re: Will Goku or Vegeta use the original SSJ forms again in
Goku and Vegeta now rely on their base and SSJ 1 form with their god ki. SSJ 3 is inefficient now and has not been used after Goku's original fight with Beerus.coola wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but after BOG Movie, Goku did not have to use SSJ - 3 anymore, as he obtained God power, similar to Gohan Elder Kaioshin powerup?