Funi names: a review (update: Namek)

[dbgtFO]

Gogeta on the other hand doesn't dub himself as such, instead I recall the South Kai proclaiming him as such, when the first Fusion fails.

I can't speak for the English dub, but in Japanese the line is something like, "That's not Gogeta, that's Veku!"

Yes, I too recall something like that from the japanese version, but I don't know if the Funi dub contains that line as well, as I haven't seen it as much, as I've seen the japanese version.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

Gogeta on the other hand doesn't dub himself as such, instead I recall the South Kai proclaiming him as such, when the first Fusion fails.

I can't speak for the English dub, but in Japanese the line is something like, "That's not Gogeta, that's Veku!"

Yes, I too recall something like that from the japanese version, but I don't know if the Funi dub contains that line as well, as I haven't seen it as much, as I've seen the japanese version.

In the dub it was like "That's no Gogeta, that's more of a Veku."

[Gyt Kaliba]

Huh, I remembered Veku being a thing in the dub, but I didn't at all remember the subtitled version also having that name - I thought it was more of a dub thing.

Come to think of it, even in outside the series sources like games or guides, have the fat and thin versions of Gotenks ever had different names?

[Valerius Dover]

And now I feel silly. I guess I might've gotten this confused with something else. Well, forget that then.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on some of the complete name changes and their possible explanations.

[Theophrastus]

I'm so happy that the FUNi dub of One Piece didn't use straight up untranslated terminology just to cater to the Kaizoku Fansubs crowd. The amount of people that say Shichibukai, Yonko and Nakama instead of Warlord, Emperor and Friend is insane.

QFT! Before I stopped watching fansubs altogether, one of my biggest pet peeves with them is how they wouldn't translate certain Japanese words under the pretext of, "It's a Japanese word, there isn't really an English word for it." That's true in a select few cases, but in many cases, that simply isn't true at all, and the people doing the fansubs were just trying to earn "internet cool points." There are a few specific instances of this that I find annoying, but the one I underlined tops the list. I even heard somebody say, "No, it's 'nakama,' it can't really be translated, it means 'friend.'" I remember sitting there and thinking....it can't be translated? You just did!

I probably wouldn't be so bothered by it if fansubs weren't luring people away from supporting the official release based on superficial stuff like that...but in any event, I apologize for the rant. Thanks Herms, this is a great idea for a thread!

We did end up with "Haki" instead of "Ambition", though, which is super weird considering basically everything else gets translated properly (even the really dumb-sounding stuff like Soru -> Shave). ...Actually, considering both Funimation and Viz ended up doing it, I kinda wonder if maybe there's some sort of mandate from Oda that they have to leave that particular term untranslated for some reason.

[precita]

You can't blame FUNI for calling Kami, "Kami" as if that's his name rather than God. That's why the dub also refers to him as, "Guardian of the Earth" to still retain that meaning.

[VegettoEX]

You can't blame FUNI for calling Kami, "Kami" as if that's his name rather than God. That's why the dub also refers to him as, "Guardian of the Earth" to still retain that meaning.

On one hand, of course; it's not like we don't recognize the obvious reason they did it. On the other hand, too bad; he is who he is and it's not my fault if someone's religion doesn't like what some guy in Japan called a green alien in his comic book.

[Fionordequester]

You can't blame FUNI for calling Kami, "Kami" as if that's his name rather than God. That's why the dub also refers to him as, "Guardian of the Earth" to still retain that meaning.

On one hand, of course; it's not like we don't recognize the obvious reason they did it. On the other hand, too bad; he is who he is and it's not my fault if someone's religion doesn't like what some guy in Japan called a green alien in his comic book.

Wasn't FUNI still an up-and-comer back then? Meaning that they were still a little guy? Meaning that they were still fragile back then? Besides, "Kami" MEANS God anyway, it's just happens to mean "God" in another language.

[VegettoEX]

Besides, "Kami" MEANS God anyway, it's just happens to mean "God" in another language.

Sure, but that's real close to saying "besides, keikaku just means plan in another language" or "besides, nakama just means friend in another language" to justify their usage.

[Kamiccolo9]

You can't blame FUNI for calling Kami, "Kami" as if that's his name rather than God. That's why the dub also refers to him as, "Guardian of the Earth" to still retain that meaning.

On one hand, of course; it's not like we don't recognize the obvious reason they did it. On the other hand, too bad; he is who he is and it's not my fault if someone's religion doesn't like what some guy in Japan called a green alien in his comic book.

Wasn't FUNI still an up-and-comer back then? Meaning that they were still a little guy? Meaning that they were still fragile back then? Besides, "Kami" MEANS God anyway, it's just happens to mean "God" in another language.

Kami means "god" in the (kinda) same way you would do when discussing The Greek or Roman pantheons. It has a totally different connotation than the concept of a Judeo-Christian "God."

He's never depicted as any kind of omnipotent creator. If Hercules is fair game, an alien slug man is fine.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Unforunately, that kind of thing has barely changed either. Not to go too far off topic, but very recently, when the show 'Lucifer' began to air, the 'One Million Moms' group launched a protest/suggested boycott of various companies related to the show (even Olive Garden simply for their endorsement), simply because they felt the show was 'painting the devil in a good light, as a sympathetic good guy'...despite the fact that the show is, after all, fictional, and not exactly the first show or movie to ever use the devil as a character that's not the primary villain. And even going back to yesteryear, the TMNT had outcry against it as well for supposedly 'religious' reasons, and I'm not even going to look up any of the outcry Pokemon had against it as well cuz that's far more well known and talked about. Heck, even on a personal level, I recall one of my fellow elementary students back in grade school being barred from participating in a play or reading certain stories we were reading in class, because they touched on Greek mythology, and apparently even talking about that was 'against their religion'.

So, on the one hand, I can certainly understand why FUNi and any other companies were afraid to broach that subject, from a financial point of view...but I completely disagree with the reasoning and hate that it had to be so just to avoid having to deal with people like that.

[Fionordequester]

Besides, "Kami" MEANS God anyway, it's just happens to mean "God" in another language.

Sure, but that's real close to saying "besides, keikaku just means plan in another language" or "besides, nakama just means friend in another language" to justify their usage.

The difference between those two instances though is that "Kami" will be accepted by both dubbies and subbies, whereas with your example, dubbies are just going to go "huh?! Nakama? The heck does that mean?", and then that's going to immediately take them out of the show.

Now, that being said, I will agree with you, as a Christian, that "God" is not something that should ruin the show for someone. Yes, yes, yes, "don't take the Lord's name in vain", but, Akira Toriyama doesn't subscribe to my same set of beliefs. And furthermore, the Japanese are nowhere near as serious about religion as we are, and are in fact, somewhat suspicious of it. Why? Because they believed that their Emperor was God till, you know, WWII happened. Imagine sending your sons off to die in a war you believed was divinely mandated, only to then find out that it was all a complete lie (the Emperor was forced to admit that he was NOT divine in front of the entire nation, so that kind of hosed their entire belief system). You wouldn't be all that serious about religion too if that were to happen, right?

But...the thing is, many people are not going to be as understanding as all that. I mean, it's a Christian virtue, but well...just because Jesus is perfect doesn't necessarily mean his followers are. And for a small company like FUNi, I can see why they wouldn't want to take that kind of risk.

[ekrolo2]

Kami should've been called God just for the unintentional hilarity. It's not even like he's a God with another name like Thor or Odin or Zeus, he's just God and for some reason, I find this funny and I imagine it would be funnier still with everyone referring to him simply as God with a complete straight face.

[Kamiccolo9]

The Bible calls the gods of other cultures "gods." The word was never taboo to anyone with basic knowledge of the subject. And you are vastly oversimplifying the Japanese view of religion, of which State Shinto, which is what you are referring to, was but one example.

[Gaffer Tape]

The difference between those two instances though is that "Kami" will be accepted by both dubbies and subbies, whereas with your example, dubbies are just going to go "huh?! Nakama? The heck does that mean?", and then that's going to immediately take them out of the show.

Why? What is inherently different about the two? Why will people accept Kami, a Japanese word, but not nakama, another Japanese word? Why will they accept karate and not Tenshinhan? What's going to take them out of the show? Why would they be fine with Kaio-ken, but Genki Dama will take them out of the show? Because it really just sounds like, "I'll accept what I'm used to. If I'm not used to it, then it's just too darn Japanese."

[Vegard Aune]

The difference between those two instances though is that "Kami" will be accepted by both dubbies and subbies, whereas with your example, dubbies are just going to go "huh?! Nakama? The heck does that mean?", and then that's going to immediately take them out of the show.

Why? What is inherently different about the two? Why will people accept Kami, a Japanese word, but not nakama, another Japanese word? Why will they accept karate and not Tenshinhan? What's going to take them out of the show? Why would they be fine with Kaio-ken, but Genki Dama will take them out of the show? Because it really just sounds like, "I'll accept what I'm used to. If I'm not used to it, then it's just too darn Japanese."

Well, "Kami" would seem to the uninitiated to just be the character's name. Hardly the same as leaving a random completely normal word in Japanese for no reason. And "Kami" has the whole, y'know, religious themes issue behind it. Someone would inevitably complain.

...That said I disagree with leaving either of them in Japanese. The Namekian who created the Dragon Balls should just be called God, Luffy should be asking people to be his crewmates, and that's that.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm not saying it's necessarily the same thing. I'm taking issue with the idea that one extremely Japanese word being left in Japanese is going to cause more of a fuss than another extremely Japanese word being left in. Again, Kaio-ken, a word that in the dub has absolutely no meaning, both because they mispronounce it and because they changed the name of the person who invented it. And you're never going to find a dub fan going, "Well, what does that mean? I'm confused. This is so weeaboo. I'm shutting this off." And most likely you're never going to find one who thinks changing it to King Kai Fist is a good idea. Again, they accept what they're used to. If it's something they're used to that's Japanese, and someone suggests making it English, they'll say it's stupid. If it's something they're used to that's English, and someone suggests making it Japanese, they'll say it's weeaboo. I am absolutely convinced if that same crowd grew up with a One Piece dub that used the term nakama, they would have accepted it as just what Luffy's group is called, and they would defend it, regardless of whether they had any idea of how the word is translated.

[Fionordequester]

The Bible calls the gods of other cultures "gods." The word was never taboo to anyone with basic knowledge of the subject. And you are vastly oversimplifying the Japanese view of religion, of which State Shinto, which is what you are referring to, was but one example.

Again, not everyone is quite that knowledgable, and FUNI knew it. Yes, "God's" name is Yahweh, not "God" or "LORD". You're assuming that your typical, uppity Soccer Mom is going to know the difference (when actually, Bible literacy has been shrinking).

I'm not saying it's necessarily the same thing. I'm taking issue with the idea that one extremely Japanese word being left in Japanese is going to cause more of a fuss than another extremely Japanese word being left in. Again, Kaio-ken, a word that in the dub has absolutely no meaning, both because they mispronounce it and because they changed the name of the person who invented it. And you're never going to find a dub fan going, "Well, what does that mean? I'm confused. This is so weeaboo. I'm shutting this off."

Well of course you're not going to find a dub fan who says that. They're already a fan at that point, duh.

The problem, though, is that what you're suggesting would make it so there weren't as many people who BECAME dub fans. They may look at this, admittedly kind of weird show, where people are riding on clouds fighting all of these crazy villains, half of whom are running around in their speedos, have all these crazy names...and now they have to accept that "God" happens to be a giant green pickle on top of all that? Again, I personally don't have a problem with it, but I can see how a lot of people would.

Believe me though, you're preaching to the choir when you talk to me about why it's dumb that it has to be changed.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

I'm so happy that the FUNi dub of One Piece didn't use straight up untranslated terminology just to cater to the Kaizoku Fansubs crowd. The amount of people that say Shichibukai, Yonko and Nakama instead of Warlord, Emperor and Friend is insane.

This. A proper translation into English shouldn't be throwing around random Japanese words like that just to seem cool and exotic.

[Gaffer Tape]

The problem, though, is that what you're suggesting would make it so there weren't as many people who BECAME dub fans. They may look at this, admittedly kind of weird show, where people are riding on clouds fighting all of these crazy villains, half of whom are running around in their speedos, have all these crazy names...and now they have to accept that "God" happens to be a giant green pickle on top of all that? Again, I personally don't have a problem with it, but I can see how a lot of people would.

Believe me though, you're preaching to the choir when you talk to me about why it's dumb that it has to be changed.

I think we're talking about completely different things here. I never mentioned the idea of God being accepted in a dub. You said "nakama" wouldn't be accepted. That the word Kami is a totally acceptable Japanese word, but no one would be able to handle nakama, and I just don't think that's true. I think people say that because they're used to one and not the other.

Well of course you're not going to find a dub fan who says that. They're already a fan at that point, duh.

Like this. This line seems to imply that people are just born a fan of the English Dragon Ball Z dub, or, exhaustively, of anything. Those people who "are already fans, duh" had a time when they weren't. When they had to watch and decide whether or not they enjoyed it. That's what I'm talking about. And they were inundated by these Japanese words, like Kami and Kaio-ken, and yet somehow, it didn't bother them enough to not become fans. To the majority of the NA fanbase, Kaio-ken was not something that came along years and years later. It was there from nearly the beginning. So, no, they weren't already fans, duh.