Sources on Kuririn being the strongest human

[Khin]

- To which I would argue that there's no real way to gauge that statement due to them never fighting. From that point on they encounter beings that are far stronger and could one shot either of them. Sure, Tenshinhan just pushed back Cell, but he pushed back CELL. That's impressive considering their gaps in power.

- Other than The Grand Elder's power up, what suggests that Kuririn would stay stronger? It's heavily implied that Tenshinhan has a great natural aptitude for fighting, I would argue much moreso than anyone who isn't a god or an alien.

• Pushing back Cell doesn't mean anything since it deals 0 damage to him.Android #16's [Who is way stronger than Ten] punch didn't even scratched or moved Cell an inch.
• The highest official Power Level for Kuririn was 75,000 for Freeza Arc.Tenshihan was 1,830 for Saiyan Arc.That alone is a very big gap for Ten to work out.Toriyama himself stated that Kuririn is the strongest earthling,ROF and BOG's bio for Kuririn have him as the strongest earthling,Yamcha stated that Kuririn is the strongest among earthlings.Just because Tenshinhan trained more/like's fighting more.It doesn't mean he surpassed Kuririn.We was shown in the series where characters have limits.[Vegeta stating he and Goku are already close to their limits in Super].So,no matter how much Ten train,if he already reached his limit.He wouldn't get stronger.Kuririn probably have more potential that Tenshinhan.

[ABED]

It is because there's no explicit evidence one way or the other. The closest thing is something Yamcha said and though volumes earlier.

It would be arbitrary if I was assuming something without good eason. That would be arbitrary. Stating merely that it's an assumption either way, whether we think it's Krillin or Tenshinhan the stronger one, that's just describing how it is.

And I have reason to believe that aliens exist (to be clear, I don't think they visited Earth), but it's an arbitrary statement because there's no evidence of their existence. There's no evidence that shows Tenshinhan is stronger. The closest we get is something Yamcha stated chapters earlier and your argument was essentially "there's no evidence that Tenshinhan wasn't stronger." That's an arbitrary statement. There's logic to it, but that doesn't mean it isn't arbitrary.

•Pushing back Cell doesn't mean anything since it deals 0 damage to him.Android #16's [Who is way stronger than Ten] punch didn't even scratched or moved Cell an inch.

It does since how many guys just take those huge blasts like they were nothing? Tenshinhan is at least able to budge him. What was Kuririn ever shown to do against Cell?

I'm not arguing what Toriyama said, I'm just disagreeing with his reasoning.

So,no matter how much Ten train,if he already reached his limit.He wouldn't get stronger.Kuririn probably have more potential that Tenshinhan.

But we aren't ever shown anything that would prove that one way or the other. There are no feats to compare it to. Let's use an analogy. My friend and I both can't lift 1000 lbs. From that you can't infer who the stronger of us is considering it's out of our ability to do so. However, if you put 135 on a bench press, you will get a much better idea of who the stronger is. In DB, we aren't really shown any feats like that in order to get an accurate comparison. After the Saiyan arc, powers go off the scale and neither do a bit of damage to any antagonist.

[rereboy]

And I have reason to believe that aliens exist (to be clear, I don't think they visited Earth), but it's an arbitrary statement because there's no evidence of their existence. There's no evidence that shows Tenshinhan is stronger. The closest we get is something Yamcha stated chapters earlier and your argument was essentially "there's no evidence that Tenshinhan wasn't stronger." That's an arbitrary statement. There's logic to it, but that doesn't mean it isn't arbitrary.

Except I never argued that Tenshinhan was stronger or that Krillin was stronger at the end of the manga, just like I never argued that aliens existed or that they didn't exist.

I merely stated that it was an assumption either way.

That is an accurate description and pretty much the opposite of arbitrary since I didn't assume anything. You aren't making sense, frankly.

[Khin]

- It does since how many guys just take those huge blasts like they were nothing? Tenshinhan is at least able to budge him. What was Kuririn ever shown to do against Cell?
- But we aren't ever shown anything that would prove that one way or the other. There are no feats to compare it to. Let's use an analogy. My friend and I both can't lift 1000 lbs. From that you can't infer who the stronger of us is considering it's out of our ability to do so. However, if you put 135 on a bench press, you will get a much better idea of who the stronger is. In DB, we aren't really shown any feats like that in order to get an accurate comparison. After the Saiyan arc, powers go off the scale and neither do a bit of damage to any antagonist.

- No,it doesn't mean anything since it deals 0 damage to him.Kikoho is more like a kiai technique so it makes sense for it to push back Cell.But it doesn't mean it will deal damage to him.If we go by your logic.Tenshinhan would be stronger than Android #16.
- Yes,both does nothing that makes one stronger than the other.But we got

• Akira Toriyama's comment.
• BOG and ROF bio for him.
• Yamcha's statement

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P3.2-3
Context: as Kuririn goes up against Punter
Marron: “That person dad’s fighting is big and looks strong…I wonder if he’ll be alright?...”
Yamcha: “It’s fine, fine! Someone like that doesn’t matter at all! Your father is the strongest in the world! Among Earthlings…”

We got an statement from a two movie bio,the author himself and a character from the series that puts Kuririn as the strongest earthling.Tenshinhan on the hand had 0 if i remember correctly.

[ABED]

just like I never argued that aliens existed or that they didn't exist.

I merely stated that it was an assumption either way.

That is an accurate description and pretty much the opposite of arbitrary since I didn't assume anything. You aren't making sense, frankly.

The alien thing was an analogy. I don't know why you have trouble with that idea.

This isn't the opposite of arbitrary. The opposite of arbitrary is fact or at least a fact based argument. Saying "we have no proof that he's not" is an arbitrary argument. The most we can say is there's room for reasonable disagreement about who's stronger than whom.

- No,it doesn't mean anything since it deals 0 damage to him.Kikoho is more like a kiai technique so it makes sense for it to push back Cell.But it doesn't mean it will deal damage to him.

Do you think I just don't watch the show? I'm well aware of what happened, but considering that Cell does budge, it's impressive. The fact that it's kind of like a kiai doesn't make any difference. He still had to be strong enough to move him.

I'm well aware of Toriyama's statement and Yamcha's. I would argue that although he says that, there's room for disagreement since we aren't shown it and Yamcha's words are hardly conclusive proof. For one, it's Yamcha, and two, it's reassuring Marron. I'm open to the idea that Kuririn is stronger but it's much stronger to have it demonstrated somehow than have a character state it or even the creator says so.

[rereboy]

The alien thing was an analogy. I don't know why you have trouble with that idea.

This isn't the opposite of arbitrary. The opposite of arbitrary is fact.

And pointing out that, going by the manga, it's an assumption, is pointing out a fact since there's nothing in the manga confirming it...

Or are you going to say that there's confirmation in the manga? Or are you going to deny that it's an assumption, going by the manga?

[ABED]

The alien thing was an analogy. I don't know why you have trouble with that idea.

This isn't the opposite of arbitrary. The opposite of arbitrary is fact.

And pointing out that, going by the manga, it's an assumption, is pointing out a fact since there's nothing in the manga confirming it...

There's nothing denying it either, hence arbitrary. The most we can really say is that Toriyama and Yamcha have stated Kuririn to be stronger, but it was never conclusively shown in the story.

[rereboy]

The alien thing was an analogy. I don't know why you have trouble with that idea.

This isn't the opposite of arbitrary. The opposite of arbitrary is fact.

And pointing out that, going by the manga, it's an assumption, is pointing out a fact since there's nothing in the manga confirming it...

There's nothing denying it either, hence arbitrary. The most we can really say is that Toriyama and Yamcha have stated Kuririn to be stronger, but it was never conclusively shown in the story.

But that was exactly my point and precisely what I've stated from the start... The only thing I added to that is that Yamcha's statement occurs in the Buu saga and is relevant for that moment in time.

Like I said before "there is only speculation and based on the manga there is no way to know who is stronger at the end of it". I didn't assume anything.

Your claims of disagreeing and of what I'm saying being arbitrary continue to not make sense...

[Khin]

Do you think I just don't watch the show? I'm well aware of what happened, but considering that Cell does budge, it's impressive. The fact that it's kind of like a kiai doesn't make any difference. He still had to be strong enough to move him.

I'm well aware of Toriyama's statement and Yamcha's. I would argue that although he says that, there's room for disagreement since we aren't shown it and Yamcha's words are hardly conclusive proof. For one, it's Yamcha, and two, it's reassuring Marron. I'm open to the idea that Kuririn is stronger but it's much stronger to have it demonstrated somehow than have a character state it or even the creator says so.

How does budging someone impressive ? Even the gap between Namek Freeza and Semi Cell was so huge it's crazy.Unless Tenshinhan's Kikoho now becomes more than 100x stronger than the user.It makes no sense.Again,Android #16's punch didn't even budge Cell.Does that mean #16 < Tenshinhan now ?

Why would u disagree an author statement that doesn't contradict anything ?.Why does it matter that it's Yamcha who said it ? If Yamcha wasn't sure or have no idea who's stronger between the two.He should've only said that Kuririn is strong and will have no problem dealing Punter.But instead,he literally stated that Kuririn is the strongest earthling.

[apex_pretador]

It also makes way more sense that Roshi is way stronger than Chi-chi, yet a mere 2 power level points are all the better he is than her power wise at the time of the 23rd Budokai (His base anyway, we're not counting Max power Roshi here).

There is significant difference indicated by the manga between these two at 23rd TB, atleast more than a 2 point difference.

You would also maybe assume that Kami is far stronger than Mr. Popo,

Which he is

but the facts are the facts, Mr. Popo actually has a much higher battle power than Kami,

Which is impossible

he's nearly strong enough to take on Raditz for crying out loud.

I can back up myself from manga.

Yet, there are various points in the series where Vegeta, Goku, Gohan and even Piccolo all take turns being number 1 on earth during the course of the story. It is what it is, accept it and move on I reckon.

And even Yajirobe (lol)

You can't definitively say Tenshinhan is stronger than Kuririn at any point that isn't the 22nd Budokai.

AND Daimao arc AND 23rd TB AND BoZ (scouter numbers)

Frankly, I dont buy the theory/concept of Kuririn being the strongest human at all. Just because Toriyama likes the bald guy, it doesnt mean I should regard him the same way

Tien is bald guy, krillin isn't.
Also, it isn't a theory/concept, it is a fact.
An author has nearly 100% control on his characters. He can make Yajirobe stronger than freeza if he wants to. It does matter. He actually did make Chiaotzu stronger than Young full powered daimao, krillin stronger than nappa, vegeta, cui, Zarbon etc in one moment.

Which doesnt mean a thing actually. Everyone's got their own preference.

OK, but author's preference can't be grouped in the same way as fan preference.

For me, I consider Tien, followed by Yamucha, only then Kuririn comes.

Strengths or preference ? Because Yamcha was left to dust by krillin in a few weeks training as 12 yr old kid.

Tien's 2 cool segments in Cell & Boo Arc respectively (using Shin KiKoHo to stop Semi Perfect Cell & deflect Bootenks blast at Dende) alone makes me feel Tien is "superior" fighter.

Tien's these "cool" moments also put him virtually above Piccolo, and I hope you agree that it is not the case.

Especially when compared to walking plot device (Kuririn fails to deactivate the Android. Oh No! Kuririn flies towards Super Boo to distract him momentarily. Wow!) doesnt work for me

I can't understand your point. If you don't like a character, it doesn't mean he's weak. I seriously hate mecha freeza, but I agree that he is stronger than post nail piccolo & post Zenkai vegeta.
I don't like Yakon either, but even he's above these two, and very likely above #19.
I don't like kids either , but it is obvious that they are stronger than semi-perfect cell atleast.

[Kuririn Fan]

Frankly, I dont buy the theory/concept of Kuririn being the strongest human at all. Just because Toriyama likes the bald guy, it doesnt mean I should regard him the same way

Which doesnt mean a thing actually. Everyone's got their own preference.

For me, I consider Tien, followed by Yamucha, only then Kuririn comes.

Tien's 2 cool segments in Cell & Boo Arc respectively (using Shin KiKoHo to stop Semi Perfect Cell & deflect Bootenks blast at Dende) alone makes me feel Tien is "superior" fighter.

Especially when compared to walking plot device (Kuririn fails to deactivate the Android. Oh No! Kuririn flies towards Super Boo to distract him momentarily. Wow!) doesnt work for me

But it doesn't matter if you don't like Kuririn or if you think that fucking Yamcha is stronger, you didn't create this series. No offence, but it's more important what guy who created this whole thing says, not you.

[Lord Beerus]

Frankly, I dont buy the theory/concept of Kuririn being the strongest human at all. Just because Toriyama likes the bald guy, it doesnt mean I should regard him the same way

Which doesnt mean a thing actually. Everyone's got their own preference.

For me, I consider Tien, followed by Yamucha, only then Kuririn comes.

Tien's 2 cool segments in Cell & Boo Arc respectively (using Shin KiKoHo to stop Semi Perfect Cell & deflect Bootenks blast at Dende) alone makes me feel Tien is "superior" fighter.

Especially when compared to walking plot device (Kuririn fails to deactivate the Android. Oh No! Kuririn flies towards Super Boo to distract him momentarily. Wow!) doesnt work for me

But it doesn't matter if you don't like Kuririn or if you think that fucking Yamcha is stronger, you didn't create this series. No offence, but it's more important what guy who created this whole thing says, not you.

I think anybody's interpretations of statements or events are valid as long as proper and cohesive evidence is provided to back up their own belief or interpretation. Toriyama may have stated that Krillin is the strongest earthling several times in the past, but for every person who accepts that statement, other people equally have the right to not accept that statement and provide their own justified opinion on the matter.

[Kamiccolo9]

Frankly, I dont buy the theory/concept of Kuririn being the strongest human at all. Just because Toriyama likes the bald guy, it doesnt mean I should regard him the same way

Which doesnt mean a thing actually. Everyone's got their own preference.

For me, I consider Tien, followed by Yamucha, only then Kuririn comes.

Tien's 2 cool segments in Cell & Boo Arc respectively (using Shin KiKoHo to stop Semi Perfect Cell & deflect Bootenks blast at Dende) alone makes me feel Tien is "superior" fighter.

Especially when compared to walking plot device (Kuririn fails to deactivate the Android. Oh No! Kuririn flies towards Super Boo to distract him momentarily. Wow!) doesnt work for me

But it doesn't matter if you don't like Kuririn or if you think that fucking Yamcha is stronger, you didn't create this series. No offence, but it's more important what guy who created this whole thing says, not you.

I think anybody's interpretations of statements or events are valid as long as proper and cohesive evidence is provided to back up their own belief or interpretation. Toriyama may have stated that Krillin is the strongest earthling several times in the past, but for every person who accepts that statement, other people equally have the right to not accept that statement and provide their own justified opinion on the matter.

They have the right to think whatever they want, but it's still stupid.

If I make a character called Punch Man, and I tell my friend that my character can punch at the speed of light, I don't have to back that up. He's my character. He does what I want him to.

If people want to be in denial, fine. Don't act like their opinions are in any way valid, though. It doesn't get any more clear than "Yes, he is the strongest Earthling male."

[rereboy]

They have the right to think whatever they want, but it's still stupid.

If I make a character called Punch Man, and I tell my friend that my character can punch at the speed of light, I don't have to back that up. He's my character. He does what I want him to.

If people want to be in denial, fine. Don't act like their opinions are in any way valid, though. It doesn't get any more clear than "Yes, he is the strongest Earthling male."

It's not a matter of the author not being able to make his characters do whatever he wants.

There's nothing stopping Toriyama from saying that Yajirobe is stronger than Tenshinhan at the end of the manga, for example. There isn't anything denying it and Toriyama also can decide whatever he wants. But, would it make sense going by the manga? Not really.

In similar fashion, many fans simply don't feel that it makes much sense for Krillin to be stronger than Tenshinhan going by what happens in the manga. That's all.

[Kamiccolo9]

They have the right to think whatever they want, but it's still stupid.

If I make a character called Punch Man, and I tell my friend that my character can punch at the speed of light, I don't have to back that up. He's my character. He does what I want him to.

If people want to be in denial, fine. Don't act like their opinions are in any way valid, though. It doesn't get any more clear than "Yes, he is the strongest Earthling male."

It's not a matter of the author not being able to make his characters do whatever he wants.

There's nothing stopping Toriyama from saying that Yajirobe is stronger than Tenshinhan at the end of the manga, for example. There isn't anything denying it and Toriyama also can decide whatever he wants. But, would it make sense going by the manga? Not really.

In similar fashion, many fans simply don't feel that it makes much sense for Krillin to be stronger than Tenshinhan going by what happens in the manga. That's all.

To which I reply, "Who cares what they think?"

This would be different if it was a guidebook statement, or something from the anime. But it's not. This is an interview with the author where he clearly lays out that Krillin is the strongest Earthling.

People are free to not like it. That's fine. They can disagree all they want. But it doesn't change the fact. Anyone who says otherwise is factually wrong. And if they continue to spout it off despite knowing of the author's words on the matter, then they're in denial and not worth listening to on the subject.

[rereboy]

To which I reply, "Who cares what they think?"

They do.

This would be different if it was a guidebook statement, or something from the anime. But it's not. This is an interview with the author where he clearly lays out that Krillin is the strongest Earthling.

People are free to not like it. That's fine. They can disagree all they want. But it doesn't change the fact. Anyone who says otherwise is factually wrong. And if they continue to spout it off despite knowing of the author's words on the matter, then they're in denial and not worth listening to on the subject.

But they aren't saying that it didn't happen...

For example, Super has had some strange things like Piccolo having trouble with someone who is around Ginyu level. If something like that is confirmed by the author, people aren't going to deny it hapenned... They are just going to say that it doesn't make sense to them, and at most some will treat it like a plothole.

It's the same regarding Krillin. They don't really deny it, it just doesn't make sense to them and thus some view it kind of like a plothole.

[Analytic]

I don't find that to be a fair comparison because unlike Piccolo being weaker than Captain Ginyu being an actual inconsistency (we know so because he's fought against opponents even stronger than Super Saiyans), Krillin being stronger than Tenshinhan isn't actually contradictory to anything. Saying Krillin being stronger "doesn't make sense" is a cop-out because there's nothing about it that doesn't actually make sense.

[rereboy]

I don't find that to be a fair comparison because unlike Piccolo being weaker than Captain Ginyu being an actual inconsistency (we know so because he's fought against opponents even stronger than Super Saiyans), Krillin being stronger than Tenshinhan isn't actually contradictory to anything. Saying Krillin being stronger "doesn't make sense" is a cop-out because there's nothing about it that doesn't actually make sense.

It doesn't make sense for them in their interpretation of the manga. If it does for you, great, but you are not them.

The Piccolo thing is simply something that more people agree that it doesn't make sense. Besides that, it's the same problem.

[Kamiccolo9]

To which I reply, "Who cares what they think?"

They do.

This would be different if it was a guidebook statement, or something from the anime. But it's not. This is an interview with the author where he clearly lays out that Krillin is the strongest Earthling.

People are free to not like it. That's fine. They can disagree all they want. But it doesn't change the fact. Anyone who says otherwise is factually wrong. And if they continue to spout it off despite knowing of the author's words on the matter, then they're in denial and not worth listening to on the subject.

But they aren't saying that it didn't happen...

For example, Super has had some strange things like Piccolo having trouble with someone who is around Ginyu level. If something like that is confirmed by the author, people aren't going to deny it hapenned... They are just going to say that it doesn't make sense to them, and at most some will treat it like a plothole.

It's the same regarding Krillin. They don't really deny it, it just doesn't make sense to them and thus some view it kind of like a plothole.

Except people in this very thread are denying it. That's my point. They think they know better than the author, who was very clear on the issue. This isn't like the number of Kaioshin thing, or the Buu origin thing. Nothing prevents Krillin from being stronger than Tenshinhan. This is not a contradiction. This is people who had their preconceived notions shattered, and are in denial.

[rereboy]

To which I reply, "Who cares what they think?"

They do.

This would be different if it was a guidebook statement, or something from the anime. But it's not. This is an interview with the author where he clearly lays out that Krillin is the strongest Earthling.

People are free to not like it. That's fine. They can disagree all they want. But it doesn't change the fact. Anyone who says otherwise is factually wrong. And if they continue to spout it off despite knowing of the author's words on the matter, then they're in denial and not worth listening to on the subject.

But they aren't saying that it didn't happen...

For example, Super has had some strange things like Piccolo having trouble with someone who is around Ginyu level. If something like that is confirmed by the author, people aren't going to deny it hapenned... They are just going to say that it doesn't make sense to them, and at most some will treat it like a plothole.

It's the same regarding Krillin. They don't really deny it, it just doesn't make sense to them and thus some view it kind of like a plothole.

Except people in this very thread are denying it. That's my point. They think they know better than the author, who was very clear on the issue. This isn't like the number of Kaioshin thing, or the Buu origin thing. Nothing prevents Krillin from being stronger than Tenshinhan. This is not a contradiction. This is people who had their preconceived notions shattered, and are in denial.

Deny what? That the author said it? That yamcha made that statement? That it happened? Or simply deny that it has much relevance for them because they view it as a plothole since it doesn't make much sense to them?

I didn't read the whole topic but I doubt anyone has denied that Toriyama stated it or that Yamcha stated it. They just "deny" the relevance for their own interpretation because it's like a plothole to them.