Super is not so bad like someone says

[Grimlock]

Did people really forget that it was supposed to have a movie which Vegeta would be the protagonist? If not a movie, obviously he would shine eventually... And here is/was his moment. The complaints are indeed nonsense.

[pacz360]

The Champa arc give Vegeta a bigger role and people bitch about it being a "Vegeta wank show". If Goku fought three opponents instead, fans will bitch about how Goku stole Vegeta's chance to shine .

Everyone has different opinions how shocking that mainly piccolo fans mad that veggie told big green to fuck off.

[TheMikado]

The whole show feels like fan service.

I feel like I'm not understanding pacz360 though.
I'm just stating I have little expectation on how they use the cast anymore

[pacz360]

The whole show feels like fan service.

I feel like I'm not understanding pacz360 though.
I'm just stating I have little expectation on how they use the cast anymore

Oh ok that's what you mean i could understand expecting anybody outside of jaco and bulma being usefull are slim.

[Bansho64]

I don't think you're really qualified to dictate if someone is a "true" fan or not. Regardless of what anyone likes, no one is a better fan than the other.

I made it clear that by true fan I don't mean someone who has undergone a spiritual ordeal to prove so, but someone that has watched all the episodes start to finish, and not just tidbits on Toonami and Youtube, and spends all their time talking about Broly SSJ4 being stronger than Vegetto as Golden Ape.

When a show is new, people just watch it and enjoy it, and don't try to impose their own opinion on HOW IT SHOULD BE. When a show returns, everyone has their own opinion about what each character should and shouldn't do, how the story should proceed, and if the writers don't do that, then the show is terrible.

If someone can't enjoy a show because they don't like certain aspects then that's fine. People can't always enjoy everything. No disrepect sir.

[SansrivaaL]

Animation is actually getting a lot better, cant say the same for the Goku V Botamo one but the others yes they were nice. Cabba's fast paced punch was beautiful, Vegeta's aura charge ups were fluid, Goku V Frost had some DBZ vibe type of fight while Goku V Hit brought suspense for me so yes Super aint that bad besides the RoF arc.

[buutenks]

Liked it from ep 4 and onwards.

[TheDBZmaster100]

It's average at best, I would rate this series currently a 5/10.

[Shinsa]

It's average at best, I would rate this series currently a 5/10.

I agree here. The animation is still sub par and the writing is just terrible. Its like a 15 year old kid wrote it and any depth they could possibly have they instantly do away with it by doing the usual DB tropes. Like a tournamnet in which goku acts a fool, shit on gohan, piccolo and majin buu....*FACEPALM

There are some interesting part though. Like what is U6 and the other characters...however I'm not holding my breath for anything good to come out of it.

[DragonHermit]

Yes, the writing is "terrible" as long as Goku doesn't become irrelevant and Tien and Piccolo become the main characters.

It's like some people don't understand the whole concept of a main character. Goku won't ever stop becoming the main character, and it's stupid if it does, because it won't be Dragon Ball anymore. It'll be a spinoff.

[generalred3]

Yes, the writing is "terrible" as long as Goku doesn't become irrelevant and Tien and Piccolo become the main characters.

It's like some people don't understand the whole concept of a main character. Goku won't ever stop becoming the main character, and it's stupid if it does, because it won't be Dragon Ball anymore. It'll be a spinoff.

Exactly. I feel like a lot of people forget this. I see so many try insulting the series by calling it "the Goku show". Lol I don't understand the logic in that. Of course it's the Goku show. He is the main character and it is his show.

[namekiansaiyan]

Yes, the writing is "terrible" as long as Goku doesn't become irrelevant and Tien and Piccolo become the main characters.

It's like some people don't understand the whole concept of a main character. Goku won't ever stop becoming the main character, and it's stupid if it does, because it won't be Dragon Ball anymore. It'll be a spinoff.

In this series there is too much Goku compared to Dragonball Z, In Z he was mising at least half the time whereas he gets pratically everything in Dragonball Super and that includes fights and dialogue.

[fadeddreams5]

I don't think people want Goku stripped of his role as the main character; they just want a better structured story that makes greater use of certain other characters. The biggest example of people's frustrations being how they've misused Buu, Gohan, and Piccolo in the Champa arc. They hyped fans up thinking Buu would serve a respectable role, but he's instantly sidelined and literally never seen again. Piccolo's fight was not only one of the worst shonen battles I've seen in recent history, but he didn't contribute anything at all to the story. At the very least, given that he's supposed to be the "tactician," he should have been the one to reveal Frost's fraudulence, gotten him disqualified, and lost to Magetta after putting up a decent fight. Finally, Gohan. This character has been trashed since the start of this series, but so far--and mind you, it's not too late yet--he's been completely dumped in what could have been the perfect arc to redeem him, especially considering they ****ing showed him training!

So what do we get? Exactly what people are complaining about: the Goku and Vegeta show. A 5 v 5 team tournament in which only Vegeta and Goku get to shine, and even the new character, Monaka, is revealed to be a joke. It's just terrible execution in what could have been a much more fun arc. And mind you, this is me disregarding the fact that it's also very rushed and uninspired. IMO, next to that GT tournament I barely even remember, this is the worst tournament arc in the history of Dragon Ball. Super has done it again.

[namekiansaiyan]

I don't think people want Goku stripped of his role as the main character; they just want a better structured story that makes greater use of certain other characters. The biggest example of people's frustrations being how they've misused Buu, Gohan, and Piccolo in the Champa arc. They hyped fans up thinking Buu would serve a respectable role, but he's instantly sidelined and literally never seen again. Piccolo's fight was not only one of the worst shonen battles I've seen in recent history, but he didn't contribute anything at all to the story. At the very least, given that he's supposed to be the "tactician," he should have been the one to reveal Frost's fraudulence, gotten him disqualified, and lost to Magetta after putting up a decent fight. Finally, Gohan. This character has been trashed since the start of this series, but so far--and mind you, it's not too late yet--he's been completely dumped in what could have been the perfect arc to redeem him, especially considering they ****ing showed him training!

So what do we get? Exactly what people are complaining about: the Goku and Vegeta show. A 5 v 5 team tournament in which only Vegeta and Goku get to shine, and even the new character, Monaka, is revealed to be a joke. It's just terrible execution in what could have been a much more fun arc. And mind you, this is me disregarding the fact that it's also very rushed and uninspired. IMO, next to that GT tournament I barely even remember, this is the worst tournament arc in the history of Dragon Ball. Super has done it again.

This is the worst arc in Dragonball history and to me it had the most potential. Nearly everything that could have been good was wasted.

[Chuquita]

I read a lot about a different show's revival yesterday, and what I read left me so bummed out that I'm like...Super really isn't that bad at all. Things could be so, so much worse. There are 2 revived franchises I followed as a kid and no longer follow today whose recent revivals have left me feeling sad. Super does not leave me feeling sad. I wish Super had a better schedule to get things finished with less stress on the employees, but whatever flaws Super has aren't nearly as big a turn-off for me compared to what happened to those other 2 franchises.

[Hellspawn28]

The animation in the Champa saga have gotten a lot better if you ask me. The last two episodes looked fine in my opinion.

[DragonHermit]

I don't think people want Goku stripped of his role as the main character

That's exactly what it is. People were complaining that GT didn't involve Vegeta, then Toriyama included Vegeta. Now they're complaining about Piccolo and Buu. Like wtf. Just enjoy the show. If you want to make Piccolo and Tien the main characters go write fan fiction.

The whole point of the show is to show Goku's growth from a child to a grandfather in EoZ, where he passes the torch to Uub.

[Cipher]

What did Tenshinhan do in the Piccolo Daimao arc other than fail a technique and become a liability for Goku? What did Kame-Sennin do other than fail and provide motivation for Goku?

Surely these complaints and weird scorecards would have existed to be thrown out by oddly dedicated character-centric fans if the Internet had existed for weekly feedback then too. Yes, this is two-on-five tournament, and everything hinting otherwise was a misdirection. Would people take such umbrage with it if the arc had been published ten years ago, and this was known going in?

Or, a little history lesson. The long and tenured tradition of characters who have "jobbed" in Dragon Ball:

Yamcha
Kuririn
Kame-Sennin
Tenshinhan
Chaozu
Goku
Piccolo
Nail
Vegeta
Yajirobe
Gohan
Goten
Trunks
Future Trunks
Kaioshin

Let me know if I missed any. I probably did. Please direct your angry fan mail to Bird Studios <1996.

I'm not excusing Super or saying there isn't a narrative difference between it and arcs during the series' original run, but holy shit -- The "X character didn't do X!" thing is just the most baffling, least productive way to experience a piece of fiction I can imagine, and among the potential differences between this and earlier material, I do not feel this is one of them. Unless that character is Magetta, of course.

[TekTheNinja]

^ I think the only thing people really want is a decent story. I've been experienced a shonen where you can't even really get a sense of the protagonist is in real danger when in a fight. Power scaling is the crux of things as single a Pokemon or Yugi oh. Messing it up in the granddaddy of modern shonen is a HUGE mistake in my opinion.

That and good use of the cast don't forget.

This was a mistake Z made. I'm not going to hold it against Super for continuing the trend. It's really par for the course at this point with the Dragonball series.

Nope. Z used it's cast a lot better than Super. At least they all got screen time there.

[fadeddreams5]

That's exactly what it is. People were complaining that GT didn't involve Vegeta, then Toriyama included Vegeta. Now they're complaining about Piccolo and Buu. Like wtf. Just enjoy the show. If you want to make Piccolo and Tien the main characters go write fan fiction.

I don't know if there's a term for it, but that's a natural reaction. Vegeta was an underdog in people's eyes. He was always one step below his rival, despite his power. Combine that with his overall "no-fucks-given" personality, and people wanted him to shine more, be it by killing a major enemy or surpassing Goku (in his own eyes). People like rooting for underdogs. However, the minute they become champions and these same individuals see them on top for too long, they want a new underdog to take their place.

In DBS, Vegeta is no longer behind Goku; they are pretty much equals. Furthermore, he's not the same character who shed blood and tears trying to catch up, even if it meant putting the world in jeopardy. Thus, the novelty of seeing Vegeta on top is gone. Sure, it's great we get more of him, but I think we're getting a little too much of him when, again, the novelty just isn't there anymore. But even if it was, looking from the outside in, it's very apparent to me that nobody wants to see too much of any of their favorites characters in any franchise, even if they say or truly believe they do. It's like an amusement park ride--you'll be sick of it the 10th time riding it in a row, even if you considered it the best ride ever the first few times. With that said, if Gohan and Piccolo had the same screen-time Goku and Vegeta have now, people would be asking for the latter two to come back.

So again, nobody wants Goku or Vegeta to be relegated to side character roles. All people desire, whether they realize it or not, is a better structured story that doesn't overemphasize on any one or two characters.