ssj x10 multiplier?

[dbgtFO]

It weakened Freeza to the point the x30 is significant to defeat him.

I'm still not following this reasoning. How can you compare Goku's strength of Kaioken or a multiplier to the strength of the Spirit Bomb as a feat?
It's not generated from his own Ki so it's not even comparable? If that's your primary argument for x30 I'm really not following at all. It's not like the Spirit Bomb itself had a power level that we could rate it at. It could be weaker than Base Goku or Stronger than SSJ Goku we have no idea especially since it caught Frieza off guard. I'm just really not following how its possible to use the Spirit Bomb as a gauge of anyone's power level?

Maybe someone else can explain it to me because honestly I'm feeling pretty stupid for not understanding this.

From where I'm standing, it seems you have completely misunderstood, what LightBing's trying to get across.
Basically the spirit bomb damaged Freeza so much, that his power dropped to a level, that 30x Goku could handle. If Freeza hadn't been damaged, then Goku would need the 50x multiplier, as calculated in the guidebooks. That's all there is to it. It's not because the Spirit Bomb is used as a gauge for anyone's power level, only the spirit bomb's effects on Freeza is speculated about, that being inflicting severe damage.

In numbers to simplify:

Freeza(50%): 60.
-100%: 120.
-Damaged from Spirit Bomb: 40.
--100%: 80.

Goku: 3.
-KK x10: 30.
-KK x20: 60.
-Super Saiyan: 150.
-Super Saiyan: 90.

The text in red is LightBing's approach, whereas the rest is the official levels.

[TheMikado]

^ Thank you! Finally got it, but I also don't see why this applies to Frieza and not Goku when he was pretty banged up as well?
So Frieza, for the sake of making x30 fit gets a reduction in base power but Goku doesn't?
I can see his point mathematically now but it he invented a plot point to make the number fit and we have to assume that Frieza's 100% wasnt really his 100% like he said which would go again the original author and the way its written.

[Speedster]

Basically the spirit bomb damaged Freeza so much, that his power dropped to a level, that 30x Goku could handle. If Freeza hadn't been damaged, then Goku would need the 50x multiplier, as calculated in the guidebooks.

Even disregarding the irony of supporting that 100% Freeza was not really 100%...it still doesn't add up as this requires undamaged SSJ Goku to be weaker than Namek arc undamaged 100% Freeza and this is not what the narrative implies at all. The narrative very clearly implies that SSJ Goku is stronger than 100% Freeza even in undamaged states as also further illustrated by Trunks Vs Mecha Freeza (who was even stronger than on Namek). Not to mention that both Goku turning SSJ and Freeza going 100% were more treated as a boost that was added to their states thus far. For example when Freeza received damage from the Genki Dama he may went to 40 million but when he went 100% he added 60 million (half of his full power) and went to 100 million.

Anyway this whole static SSJ multiplier thing is a load of fan-made and 3rd party non-sense anyway. Toei in GT had the SSJ increase being just more than 2-fold (episode 19). It is whatever. It is not consistent at all and it might well be the case that in the millions or billions range the scale is different from the thousands range where it was established that KK is a power level multiplier. And there is evidence to support this too as the Genki Dama against Freeza was 1million times bigger in volume than the one against Vegeta - weakened Vegeta for sure but still with power level above 5,000.

[dbgtFO]

^ Thank you! Finally got it, but I also don't see why this applies to Frieza and not Goku when he was pretty banged up as well?
So Frieza, for the sake of making x30 fit gets a reduction in base power but Goku doesn't?

I should point out, that the numbers I posted are just how I'd take LightBing's approach, he may also have given Goku reductions in base power and having that affect his resulting Super Saiyan power, but I don't know.

In any case, I think it can make sense, if we do not see the Super Saiyan power as a flat out multiplier of base form, but rather a reserve of power, that's 50x(or insert own number here) greater than base power.

Since Goku hadn't used any of that reserve power, his Super Saiyan form is only slightly weaker, than it would have been, had he achieved it, while fresh.(if his base form is 1, he'd still have 147,000,000 BP in reserve).

Freeza, on the other hand was already using 50% of his power and then lost a huge chunk of energy, thus it's more significant in his case as he is so close to his 100%, unlike Goku who was at 2% of his power.

[LightBing]

dbgtFO hit the nail on the head. I also have Goku damaged but my idea aligns with dbgtFO, SSJ is separated from base. I very much see it as the Saiyans own version of an adrenaline rush. Just better, much better.
After SSJ is introduced the characters never again train in base, in the manga at least. Then we have the mastery talk and the surpassing SSJ talk. If it multiplied wouldn't just increasing the base give immense increases?

We should also take Freeza's 100% affirmation in context, he's at full power of what he can muster at the time. Or else he would be contradicting himself:

Chapter: 317 (DBZ 123), P10.3, P12.1
Context: after getting hit with the Genki-Dama
Freeza: “Ev-even I thought I would die…I, the great Freeza, was pushed to the brink of death…[ ] Even having taken this damage, I can still easily defeat all of you!”

[Speedster]

After SSJ is introduced the characters never again train in base, in the manga at least.

Though I don't disagree with the "SSJ is a boost" theory Goku did train in base in the Buu arc (with 10 tons, a reached his limit with 40tons...). And Gohan with the Z sword was training in base too. And Future Gohan was sparring in base against SSJ Trunks. That is the biggest contradiction to the boost theory by the way. If it was a 147 million boost and independent of the base then given that Gohan was below Goku before he died the theory doesn't quite add up.

[LightBing]

After SSJ is introduced the characters never again train in base, in the manga at least.

Though I don't disagree with the "SSJ is a boost" theory Goku did train in base in the Buu arc (with 10 tons, a reached his limit with 40tons...). And Gohan with the Z sword was training in base too. And Future Gohan was sparring in base against SSJ Trunks. That is the biggest contradiction to the boost theory by the way. If it was a 147 million boost and independent of the base then given that Gohan was below Goku before he died the theory doesn't quite add up.

You're right. Specially Gohan training with the Z-sword, which has this quote:

Spoiler:

Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P5.2-4
Context: when the Z Sword breaks, after Gohan trained with it for a day
Gohan: “But…thanks to that, my arm strength has increased a lot. That Z Sword was incredibly heavy, after all…Perhaps this was what they meant by me obtaining the greatest power in the world.”
Kaioshin: “I-I get it…If he’s acquired that much power in his regular state, then if he becomes a Super Saiyan it will become an even more substantial power-up…! Ye-yeah! That’s it! That’s definitely the greatest power in the world…!”
Goku: “…But…Is he greater than Majin Boo?...I wonder…”

This forces us to take into account the base, it can't be solely a boost then. Still, there's way too many contradictions for it to be solely a static multiplier. I think there's a needs to compromise for this to work. Something like, there's always a natural and minimum multiplier for the base. The rest is all based on mastery. The recent Vegeta vs Cabba is the perfect illustration of this, fairly even in base but Vegeta easily trumps him while both are SSJ. Since Vegeta has mastered his SSJ.
This would also make sense with Mr.Toriyama interview, where he calls SSJ2 and SSJ3 powered up versions and that training base/SSJ would yield better results.

Interesting enough, I had something similar in my old power levels list. Here's the Saiyans at the Cell Games:
Gohan - 12.000.000
Super Saiyan - 480.000.000 + 1.000.000.000 = 1.480.000.000

Goku - 9.600.000
Super Saiyan - 384.000.000 + 750.000.000 = 1.134.000.000

Vegeta - 7.900.000
Super Saiyan - 316.000.000 + 400.000.000 = 716.000.000

Trunks - 7.710.000
Super Saiyan - 308.400.000 + 390.000.000 = 698.400.000

The first number is base x40(I can't remember why I choose this), the second is the power gained from mastery.

Something in this mold might make sense and mitigate all apparent contradictions. It also allows flexibility, since we don't have to force ourselves to have the characters with almost the exact same bases, no matter how unlikely that is. Thoughts?

[TheMikado]

Making it a non static multiplier is way too confusing.
Let's take the below scenario

Frieza Goku Base = 1 X 50 SSJ = 50
Android Goku Base = 5 X 30 SSJ = 60
Boo Goku Base = 10 X 10 SSJ = 100

I'm just pulling random numbers but the scaling in terms of power level increases would be completely random.

Even if having Base Goku 10x stronger than his Frieza self, reducing the SSJ to 10X would make him only 2x as strong in total, despite his base 10x base.
I feel like either way you are going to have problems whether its consistent or static. The problem with making it non static is that now you have has no idea how strong base is, no idea about the multiplier, and no idea about the total end power level. I just don't see a floating multiplier working.

[Desassina]

What if it were both 50x and 10x?

SSJ -> (Power: 50) = (Strength: 10) * (Agility: 10) / (Energy: 2)
FPSSJ -> (Power: 100) = (Strength: 10) * (Agility: 10) / (Energy: 1)

Goku is 10 times stronger and more agile, with his power having increased by 50 fold due to his energy consumption, which divides by two. When he mastered SSJ, his energy consumption divided by 1, which made it 100. It's only one exemple of how to fit both multipliers by using a few bits here and there.

[Tectorman]

In any case I am pretty sure that Toriyama never thought SSJ as a 50x multiplier post Freeza arc. Just the base is stronger. If anything in the Buu arc he introduced the kili scale and Yakkon was 800 (Goku is at least on par with him in base) and when Goku transformed into SSJ he went 3000. That is a 3.75x multiplier. We also saw base Vegeta fighting kid Buu (chapter 516)...It is whatever serves the plot!

I gotta disagree here.

"Yakon tops out at 800 kili" is not the same thing as "Yakon is at 800 kili right now". I took it to mean that Yakon had some kind of ability that would make him more powerful than what we saw at the time, but would ultimately never be enough.

Furthermore, Goku was only turning SSJ to show that he could provide his own light source. No reason to assume that the 3,000 kili mentioned was his full. The second time he went SSJ against Yakon, he could've been at 40,000 kili and his brief SSJ2 burst could've been 80,000 kili.

As for Vegeta fighting against Kid Buu in Base, he was beat up and exhausted. Fighting in Base was probably the best he could muster. And the fact that he survives multiple hits from Kid Buu doesn't mean anything either, because we see Hercule do the same. And while I can see Vegeta being so exhausted that he's down near Hercule, I wouldn't elevate Hercule anywhere near an uninjured, unexhausted Buu-Saga Saiyan, let alone a SSJ or SSJ2.

Making it a non static multiplier is way too confusing.
Let's take the below scenario

Frieza Goku Base = 1 X 50 SSJ = 50
Android Goku Base = 5 X 30 SSJ = 60
Boo Goku Base = 10 X 10 SSJ = 100

I'm just pulling random numbers but the scaling in terms of power level increases would be completely random.

Even if having Base Goku 10x stronger than his Frieza self, reducing the SSJ to 10X would make him only 2x as strong in total, despite his base 10x base.
I feel like either way you are going to have problems whether its consistent or static. The problem with making it non static is that now you have has no idea how strong base is, no idea about the multiplier, and no idea about the total end power level. I just don't see a floating multiplier working.

I agree. Whatever the modifier is, whether addition or multiplication, I think it needs to be predictable.

Goku has Goten and Trunks practice matching power levels as SSJs while training for Fusion. Obviously, he is expecting the resulting Fusion of the boys to also be a SSJ. He then predicts how strong that hypothetical fighter would be. That is impossible if SSJ isn't a predictable factor.

Gohan trains with the Z Sword. After it's broken, he and the Supreme Kai speculate that maybe using it as a training tool was the point from the getgo. The Supreme Kai even says that since Gohan is stronger now, that he should be even stronger as a SSJ. Of course, he doesn't know how SSJ works, but considering that Goku and Gohan are right there next to him and they are two of the foremost experts on SSJ and they don't contradict him on his mistaken impression of how SSJ works, it's a safe bet that strength increases in Base do carry over.

If anything, Goku's following line that Gohan's increased strength even as a SSJ might not be enough confirms it more. He cannot make that estimation if SSJ isn't predictable.

[LightBing]

Making it a non static multiplier is way too confusing.
Let's take the below scenario

Frieza Goku Base = 1 X 50 SSJ = 50
Android Goku Base = 5 X 30 SSJ = 60
Boo Goku Base = 10 X 10 SSJ = 100

I'm just pulling random numbers but the scaling in terms of power level increases would be completely random.

Even if having Base Goku 10x stronger than his Frieza self, reducing the SSJ to 10X would make him only 2x as strong in total, despite his base 10x base.
I feel like either way you are going to have problems whether its consistent or static. The problem with making it non static is that now you have has no idea how strong base is, no idea about the multiplier, and no idea about the total end power level. I just don't see a floating multiplier working.

I'm saying to apply a constant multiplier and for the rest of the power to be from mastery. This way the contradictions in the manga, are no more. Since we know that base affects SSJ but that SSJ can be mastered to bring out more power.

To exemplify, let's say the basic multiplier is x30:
Goku (Namek) - 5
SSJ - 150 + 0 (mastery) = 150

Goku (Cell Games) - 10
SSJ - 300 + 300(mastery) = 600

[Darkprince410]

I'm saying to apply a constant multiplier and for the rest of the power to be from mastery. This way the contradictions in the manga, are no more. Since we know that base affects SSJ but that SSJ can be mastered to bring out more power.

To exemplify, let's say the basic multiplier is x30:
Goku (Namek) - 5
SSJ - 150 + 0 (mastery) = 150

Goku (Cell Games) - 10
SSJ - 300 + 300(mastery) = 600

Except nothing about Goku and Gohan's mastery of the form indicated that it made the form itself stronger though, just more efficient. Vegeta's description, the only thing that really changed was that they could be at full strength and not deal with the stress of the form that would normally be there.

Vegeta: “They’ve judged that state as the best! If they get used to that as a matter of habit, then even if they raise their battle power, the strain on their body is very small! [ ] They’ve thought this through…”

It'd be one thing if there was anything pointing to them tapping into more power than usual because of their mastered state, but, with what's shown and stated, all that can actually be inferred is that the form is no different strength wise than usual (still a static 50x multiplier), just far more efficient in terms of the stress and strain of the form, and that Goku and Gohan are just that much stronger because their base forms are just that much higher.

[Desassina]

Well, they were Super Saiyans when they came out of the Room and Spirit and Time, and they did tap into more power in front of Karin and Cell, but in doing so, they didn't get bulky. It wouldn't be any fun if we couldn't complicate things though.

To address Yakon, Piccolo and Freeza during the Boo saga, it's better to use ranges. Goku is at base from 1 to before 50x his battle power, and SSJ from 50 to 100x his battle power. That way you can say that Piccolo and Freeza are stronger than what Goku walks around with, while the latter can use up more power at base without transforming. Goku would have used around 15x his battle power to dodge Yakon, for example.

[TheMikado]

Well, they were Super Saiyans when they came out of the Room and Spirit and Time, and they did tap into more power in front of Karin and Cell, but in doing so, they didn't get bulky. It wouldn't be any fun if we couldn't complicate things though.

To address Yakon, Piccolo and Freeza during the Boo saga, it's better to use ranges. Goku is at base from 1 to before 50x his battle power, and SSJ from 50 to 100x his battle power. That way you can say that Piccolo and Freeza are stronger than what Goku walks around with, while the latter can use up more power at base without transforming. Goku would have used around 14x his battle power to dodge Yakon, for example.

I agree that SSJ can be a boost too with a range, but we should always assume in a serious fight they are at their max multiplier. I would even venture to say they can push a bit beyond it well and honestly, I also saw SSJ2 as an extension/full mastered form of SSJ1 and not a full on transformation. So I feel like the multiplier could range anywhere from 1-100x but they a cap or max multiplier of the form is always the same rather than the actual output at any instance, but I also think that's generally accepted and implied among the fandom.

[LightBing]

Except nothing about Goku and Gohan's mastery of the form indicated that it made the form itself stronger though, just more efficient. Vegeta's description, the only thing that really changed was that they could be at full strength and not deal with the stress of the form that would normally be there.

How could efficiency make it better than Grade II, for example? Because it has to be stronger than Grade II, if like you say the form maintained it's perceived multiplier. It's makes no sense that reducing the stress is an advantage that trumps such a power gap, even with the speed reduction of Grade II.

We kinda know how much different SSJ is from Grade II, Vegeta was implied to be close enough to defeat Semi-Perfect Cell in regular Super Saiyan, while his Grade II pummeled him easily.

My interpretation of Vegeta's assessment is that by reducing the stress of the form they can increase it's power - he says battle power -, something that was impossible before.

It also makes sense in the narrative. SSJ is crushed by the Androids, Goku and Vegeta immediately think they need to surpass SSJ. We get the grades, strong but with handicaps. Then they turn to mastery. Why all of this, if by the end they just increased the base until the math works...
If it was that simple, better to stick to grade II which has a better multiplier and keep increasing that base.

[Speedster]

In any case I am pretty sure that Toriyama never thought SSJ as a 50x multiplier post Freeza arc. Just the base is stronger. If anything in the Buu arc he introduced the kili scale and Yakkon was 800 (Goku is at least on par with him in base) and when Goku transformed into SSJ he went 3000. That is a 3.75x multiplier. We also saw base Vegeta fighting kid Buu (chapter 516)...It is whatever serves the plot!

I gotta disagree here.

"Yakon tops out at 800 kili" is not the same thing as "Yakon is at 800 kili right now". I took it to mean that Yakon had some kind of ability that would make him more powerful than what we saw at the time, but would ultimately never be enough. Furthermore, Goku was only turning SSJ to show that he could provide his own light source. No reason to assume that the 3,000 kili mentioned was his full. The second time he went SSJ against Yakon, he could've been at 40,000 kili and his brief SSJ2 burst could've been 80,000 kili.

For starters in the manga Babidi says:

Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P3.1
Context: after Babidi measures Super Saiyan Goku's energy as 3,000 kiri
Babidi: "...Is this measuring device malfunctioning...? But if he really is 3,000 kiri... Then Yakon can't win against him... Yakon's energy is 800 kiri..."

Nowhere it says "tops" or that Yakkon still hasn't used his full power yet. Additionally even if Yakkon at that time wasn't fighting at full power neither was Goku in base. So the differences in the increases remains. Not to mention that Goku was fighting in sub-optimal conditions too as he could neither see nor sense his opponent while he opponent could see him. Yeah he was sensing the vibrations but that is not the optimal way of fighting ... it was like Beerus in episode 43 of Super trying to fight Goku while in that Monaka suit.

Anyway 800 and 3000 are the numbers that the original author used to demonstrate his intentions. Even if you say that Yakkon was at 75% of his full power and the measured SSJ Goku was at 50% of his full power the numbers would be 600 and 6000 …….that is a 10x multiplier as per Toriyama’s statement. It is also ridiculous to think that the author would say 3000 for the SSJ but mean 40,000 while at the same time he had the opposition (which included Dabra who was above Perfect Cell) making a big deal about the 3000. Especially given that SSJ2 Goku was not THAT much higher (20x) than SSJ2 Gohan in the Cell games.

As for Vegeta fighting against Kid Buu in Base, he was beat up and exhausted. Fighting in Base was probably the best he could master.

No Vegeta had just been revived with the Dragonballs and had his health and power visibly fully restored. Not even a single scratch. Yet he didn't bother to transform before facing kid Buu while he was trying to buy as much time as possible.

And the fact that he survives multiple hits from Kid Buu doesn't mean anything either, because we see Hercule do the same. And while I can see Vegeta being so exhausted that he's down near Hercule, I wouldn't elevate Hercule anywhere near an uninjured, unexhausted Buu-Saga Saiyan, let alone a SSJ or SSJ2.

You are comparing apples with oranges here. Kid Buu Versus base Vegeta is a serious fight. It is spread in 10 panels and the audience is expected to feel the tension of whether Vegeta will survive these heavy blows (he took on 6 blows by the way). On the other hand kid Buu versus Mr Satan is a gag scene akin to kid Trunks Vs Mr Satan after he won the tournament (chapter 436). Mr Satan is punched just once by the way. When kid Buu was really going for a serious assault he was stopped by fat Buu's blast.

In any case base Vegeta surviving attacks from kid Buu proves that Daizenshuu's statement about Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others post RoSaT is not an understatement and most likely referred only to obtaining the SSJ3.

[Darkprince410]

How could efficiency make it better than Grade II, for example? Because it has to be stronger than Grade II, if like you say the form maintained it's perceived multiplier. It's makes no sense that reducing the stress is an advantage that trumps such a power gap, even with the speed reduction of Grade II.

We kinda know how much different SSJ is from Grade II, Vegeta was implied to be close enough to defeat Semi-Perfect Cell in regular Super Saiyan, while his Grade II pummeled him easily.

My interpretation of Vegeta's assessment is that by reducing the stress of the form they can increase it's power - he says battle power -, something that was impossible before.

It also makes sense in the narrative. SSJ is crushed by the Androids, Goku and Vegeta immediately think they need to surpass SSJ. We get the grades, strong but with handicaps. Then they turn to mastery. Why all of this, if by the end they just increased the base until the math works...
If it was that simple, better to stick to grade II which has a better multiplier and keep increasing that base.

Goku talks about how the "regular Super Saiya-jin" form is the best in terms of balance after commenting on why he finds Ssj 3rd Grade so impractical to use.

Goku: “I can’t win like this…Probably not…[ ] With my muscles swelled up like this, my power greatly increases, but it kills my speed. Huge power doesn’t mean anything if I can’t hit my opponent…And it uses up energy at too intense a rate. Balance-wise, regular Super Saiyan is best. I know that well enough…”

Which means that he's willing to settle for a less powerful form if he finds it more efficient in terms of the balance between speed, strength, and ki drain, and then further indicates that he finds the regular form the most efficient in that regard. He comments about all three major aspects of Ssj 3rd Grade (the power, the speed, and the ki drain) and then indicates that he'd rather stick with the regular Ssj form than use any of the later grades because he finds it the proper balance, even though it's still overall the weaker of the forms.

As for Vegeta's comment, I don't see it that way. Given that Goku and Gohan were heavily suppressed at the time that they came out, Vegeta's line came off as being that once they were to go to the full extent of their battle power, rather than being suppressed, they would still experience very little strain in comparison to what they normally would. For example:

Let's say that Goku's base battle power is 5, which would make his Ssj battle power 250. When he came out of the Room of Spirit and Time, he was suppressed down in his Ssj state to where it was also 5, and Vegeta's comment was that, even if Goku pushed himself up to his full 250, he'd still have no real stress in the form.

It's the same principle of why Goku is abandoning Ssj2 and Ssj3 following his fight with Beerus. Although they would give him more immediate boosts in strength, he'd rather focus on his base and Ssj forms for power because they're the most efficient.

[LightBing]

Let's say SSJ is x50 and Grade II is x60, SSJ2 x100 and SSJ3 x150.
Base - 6.000.000
SSJ - 300.000.000 (The most balanced form, not denying that)
SSJ Grade II - 360.000.000 (Loss of speed and higher Ki consumption)
SSJ2 - 600.000.000 (I don't think there's any drawbacks mentioned, but Mr.Toriyama says it's a powered up form)
SSJ3 - 900.000.000 (Massive Ki consumption)

The form might be the most balanced, but without power it doesn't matter and makes Goku and the rest look like idiots if it's static. You even say it's the same concept as currently with SSJ2 and SSJ3. Which cames from this interview:

Spoiler:

Goku endlessly keeps getting stronger, with Super Saiyan 3 in the manga and Super Saiyan 4 in the anime; does Super Saiyan keep getting limitlessly stronger too? Might we eventually see things such as a Super Saiyan 5…?!
Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.

Mastering Super Saiyan and Base comes up again, if we interpret it as simply making the base stronger so that eventually SSJ surpasses SSJ2 and SSJ3, it can't work if the multiplier is stable, since just going SSJ3 will always be massively better, even with the drawbacks.

We even have a recent example, Cabba vs Vegeta. Both fairly even in Base but when they turn SSJ, Vegeta is much stronger.

There's has to be a combination of a minimal static multiplier and mastery. With the mastery allowing SSJ to become stronger than even SSJ2 and SSJ3, like Mr.Toriyama suggests and appears to have followed through with the Cabba vs Vegeta fight.

[Darkprince410]

Mastering Super Saiyan and Base comes up again, if we interpret it as simply making the base stronger so that eventually SSJ surpasses SSJ2 and SSJ3, it can't work if the multiplier is stable, since just going SSJ3 will always be massively better, even with the drawbacks.

I interpret it as Goku just training solely in his base and Ssj form, so that he's able to reach levels of power with that static multiplier (and no mastery) that he couldn't have beforehand. He's seen repeatedly what high power but high drain forms do and how inefficient they are for battle, so he's wanting to keep to using one that gives him staying power and keep it useful, rather than forms with higher outputs that burn him out far quicker.

Since base and regular Ssj are the forms that sap less strength, training and reaching battle powers with those that he otherwise couldn't without Ssj2 or Ssj3 gives him the strength he needs while giving him the capacity to fight over long periods of time, so that if he runs into battles against enemies with incredible endurance (such as something like Buu) he doesn't tap himself out in a couple minutes with an incredibly draining form.

Less immediate power, but more staying power is what Goku was going for back then with everything that was described, just as he is now with abandoning Ssj2 and Ssj3 to focus on regular Ssj and his base form.

[LightBing]

The contradiction persists. Goku admitted to be able to take Majin Boo while in SSJ3, despite the major drawbacks. Let's imagine he would fight Boo again, now with an improved SSJ that compares to SSJ3. He would win, without worrying about the Ki consumption. But why wouldn't he just go SSJ2 and SSJ3 to finish him with a quick blast?

Making SSJ equal to SSJ2 and beyond is redundant, because SSJ2 and SSJ3 will always be stronger and resolve any fight were SSJ would have difficulties, if the multiplier is static. Now if we go the mastery route and SSJ can naturally reach the same level as SSJ2 and SSJ3, it makes sense to use it since it's the more balanced form.