Buu saga Goku is the best version of the character

[sintzu]

What character development are you referring to other than him being a little smarter ?

Getting a lot smarter, taking things seriously & caring for others to name a few.

[ABED]

What character development are you referring to other than him being a little smarter ?

Getting a lot smarter, taking things seriously & caring for others to name a few.

He always cared about people and when did he not take things seriously? I fail to see how he changed. It's more that his circumstances changed and he responded accordingly.

[sintzu]

I fail to see how he changed.

Everything about Goku's development is here.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Goku

If you still won't be able to see the changes he went through after reading all that then it's because you don't want to see it.

[StrawHatPatriot]

I agree, Goku's character is very different in Super - not that they even changed him, but rather they reverted him back to how he was in before the Buu arc.

Although , I will say that against Majinn Vegeta, goku didn't really take Vegeta seriously at that point. He probably thought he was going through some stupid temper tantrum.

[ABED]

I fail to see how he changed.

Everything about Goku's development is here.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Goku

If you still won't be able to see the changes he went through after reading all that then it's because you don't want to see it.

No, it's because he's the same character. Meeting new people isn't character development and that wikia isn't proof. Give me concrete examples of how he cared more or how he became more serious.

[sintzu]

Give me concrete examples of how he cared more or how he became more serious.

At this point you're just going around in circles so there's no need to continue this any longer.

[ABED]

Give me concrete examples of how he cared more or how he became more serious.

At this point you're just going around in circles so there's no need to continue this any longer.

We aren't going around in circles, you haven't given me one concrete example. You've spoken in generalities. Goku getting serious against Tao Pai Pai isn't character development. He hasn't changed, just the circumstances have.

[TheMikado]

Give me concrete examples of how he cared more or how he became more serious.

At this point you're just going around in circles so there's no need to continue this any longer.

We aren't going around in circles, you haven't given me one concrete example. You've spoken in generalities. Goku getting serious against Tao Pai Pai isn't character development. He hasn't changed, just the circumstances have.

Read my post, it lays it out in various scenarios and people have added to it.

[TheMikado]

I agree, Goku's character is very different in Super - not that they even changed him, but rather they reverted him back to how he was in before the Buu arc.

Although , I will say that against Majinn Vegeta, goku didn't really take Vegeta seriously at that point. He probably thought he was going through some stupid temper tantrum.

Well I think we arguably see Goku take into consideration that Vegeta is an actual person as has had his pride hurt. Further injuring it would only drive him further to evil and that's something not even Goku wanted to risk and should great maturity and insight with Vegeta and wanting redemption.

[ABED]

This is pretty much a perfect example of why DBZ was far more exceptional and even in DB.
Goku basically grows up from a aimless kid to a full on hero in the original dragonball.
In the beginning of Z we basically see Goku retired and living in peace, settled down and had a kid.
Plus he seems to deeply care about his family.
We see this extend throughout Z and into the Cell saga where he basically pins all his hopes on his only son.
Then when he dies he makes an incredibly mature decision to stay dead for the good of the Earth and they enjoy several years of peace.
In the Buu arc he is not only mindful of the destruction Vegeta causes but also acknowledges why Vegeta is on the path in the first place.
Vegeta believes evil is his source of strength and Goku needs to convince his that evil is not the only path to power otherwise he risks having Vegeta as an enemy to the world which is NOT a good idea especially if going up against Buu.
Goku also recognizes the strength of the kids, he even actually appears to have decent parenting skills in the way he compromises with Goten and Trunks.
He wants those who are alive to handle the issue of Buu, to be honest I feel the reason he really steps in is because Goku's appearance seems to have helped trigger the events.

Are you saying DBZ was more exceptional than DB?
Goku was never aimless. He always wanted to be strong.
Goku hasn't retired, he's still training until the almost inevitable fight with Piccolo.
He does to an extent, but I will give you that this was a development.
How is pinning his hopes on Gohan development?
He decides to stay dead in part because he wants to fight
Being mindful of Vegeta's destruction isn't a change.
Leaving it up to Goten and Trunks doesn't show decent parenting. It's also kind of reckless don't you think, leaving a universe ending situation to kids?

I would say the big changes he goes through are he gets slightly smarter, becomes a husband and father, but even then he's not a good husband. He is NOT a drastically different character.

Well I think we arguably see Goku take into consideration that Vegeta is an actual person as has had his pride hurt. Further injuring it would only drive him further to evil and that's something not even Goku wanted to risk and should great maturity and insight with Vegeta and wanting redemption.

I don't think so. Vegeta's beyond redemption. He can't undo the massive body count. Vegeta was a problem that needed to be dealt with, not shown understanding he didn't deserve. If Vegeta was so insecure, that's his fault, Goku doesn't owe him anything, nor do I think it shows any maturity on Goku's part. It shows naivete, if anything. I'll give you that it was insightful of Goku to see through Vegeta's BS.

[TheMikado]

^ look I've given pretty much a ton of character development if you can show me some examples that are comparable in terms of Gokus development 4 and a half arcs into Super I'm opening to listening. Whether we agree on whether Gokus action were good or bad it doesn't matter because he character "develops" the actions of what he has endured leads him to make decisions about both his personal life and his career as a fighter. Goku literally takes the life lessons he learns in previous arcs and APPLIES them. Do you think Goku would be willing to bet the Cell games on Gohan if he hadn't learned the power of hidden potential within his own self? What about leaving Buu to the kids if he hadn't seen what Gohan did against Cell? He learned things both on and off the battle field and it doesn't exist at all in Super. I doubt any literary scholar would argue this point regardless of personal taste but if that how you feel you are free to feel that way.

[sintzu]

Further injuring it would only drive him further to evil and that's something not even Goku wanted to risk.

It was great that Goku took that into account and instead of trying to defeat him he reached out to him and it worked.

However, I think it would've been interesting to see Goku go Ssj3 and completely wipe the floor with him, leading him to leave the planet and switch completely to the dark side in search of power, kind of like what Sasuke did in Naruto.

[ABED]

Develop means change. A change in circumstance isn't a change in character. Goku didn't learn a lesson with Gohan. Gohan was the only one with the power to defeat Cell. That's strategic, not character development. I think a literary scholar would agree that letting Gohan defeat Cell wasn't a change in Goku's behavior or some change in his character.

Regarding Vegeta, Goku has almost always tried to let a fighter who gave him a good fight go, and with Vegeta, he knows him. So even there, I wouldn't call it character development on Goku's part.

Do you think Goku would be willing to bet the Cell games on Gohan if he hadn't learned the power of hidden potential within his own self?

No, and how does that show he grew and learned?

Goku literally takes the life lessons he learns in previous arcs and APPLIES them.

What lessons?

[sintzu]

Goku didn't learn a lesson with Gohan. Gohan was the only one with the power to defeat Cell. That's strategic, not character development.

Goku chose to let Gohan take care of it instead of trying to reach that power on his own and do it himself.

He could've went back in the ROSAT but he didn't. he could've used those 10 days to train as hard as he could but he didn't, instead he chose to leave it up to Gohan.

The above being character development isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

[ABED]

Goku didn't learn a lesson with Gohan. Gohan was the only one with the power to defeat Cell. That's strategic, not character development.

Goku chose to let Gohan take care of it instead of trying to reach that power on his own and do it himself.

He could've went back in the ROSAT but he didn't. he could've used those 10 days to train as hard as he could but he didn't, instead he chose to leave it up to Gohan.

The above being character development isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

He couldn't! Cell was out of his league. Yes, he could've gone back into the room but as he mentioned, going back in would've put too much strain on his body and would've been counterproductive at that point because he had plateaued and the RST puts strain on the body even when they aren't training. So it's not a fact. Gohan's power DWARFED his and Cell's for that matter.

[sintzu]

He couldn't!

He didn't even try because of how confident he was in Gohan.

[ABED]

He couldn't!

He didn't even try because of how confident he was in Gohan.

He explicitly told Vegeta in episode 169 that it would be counterproductive. Then Vegeta that Vegeta still has room for improvement, clearly implying that Goku's reached his limit.

[sintzu]

He explicitly told Vegeta in episode 169 that it would be counterproductive.

Do you really think Goku would just sit around if he didn't believe Gohan could handle it ?

If training more was counterproductive then he wouldn't have trained for 7 years in the after life, he said that because it was the only thing he could without telling everyone about Gohan.

[ABED]

He explicitly told Vegeta in episode 169 that it would be counterproductive.

Do you really think Goku would just sit around if he didn't believe Gohan could handle it ?

If training more was counterproductive then he wouldn't have trained for 7 years in the after life, he said that because it was the only thing he could without telling everyone about Gohan.

No, but he could handle it, hence it's a moot point and doesn't show he's changed. If Goku could've handled it or believed he could, then he would've fought Cell because he loves to fight.

It's not the training that's counter productive, it's the training in that room in the time he had left. 7 years would be enough plus, he's in the afterlife so not only is his dead body sturdier it's seven whole years. Your last point is pure conjecture. He isn't a liar.

Here's the exchange with Vegeta

{Piccolo:} You mean you had enough use of it? You're not going in again?
{Goku:} No.
{Piccolo:} Why? You can still go in for one day.
{Goku:} The body suffers a lot from that room. Even without doing anything.
{Goku:} Then I can't have a good rest.
{Vegeta:} Even Kakarotto can't beat the suffering in the room?
{Goku:} Right. But even if we force ourselves to tolerate it, it's not practice.
{Goku:} I don't object that you're going back to the room. There's still room for improvement.
{Vegeta:} What? I don't like what you said. It seems like you meant you were more powerful than I am.
{Goku:} Much more.
{Vegeta:} [getting really furious] What!?

[TheMikado]

^ that exchange implies nothing about Goku hitting his limits. From the text it just sounds like it's so hard on the body it's not worth doing as he wouldn't gain much and that Vegeta needed it despite that fact.

He couldn't!

He didn't even try because of how confident he was in Gohan.

He explicitly told Vegeta in episode 169 that it would be counterproductive. Then Vegeta that Vegeta still has room for improvement, clearly implying that Goku's reached his limit.