Is Nozawa's voice the only thing that turns people off of the Japanese version?

[Deathbringer]

The point of the thread may be being slightly missed here, it's not another English vs Japanese debate although it is to do with that subject, it's basically the result of me seeing so many comments only giving Goku's Japanese voice as the reason why they "can't stand the sub".

It has been pointed out in the thread that there are people who would also be turned off by the Japanese music but that only really works for DBZ, although having said that most of these sort of comments I'm talking about are usually just going on about DBZ anyway. The real question here is when it comes to the voice cast themselves do most people just ignore them and choose to only focus on Nozawa?

Sometimes it feels like these sort of comments are made by people who would never watch the Japanese version anyway, sometimes it feels like they just use Goku's voice as an excuse for why they don't watch it when in reality they're just used to the English dub and would never watch the Japanese version even if Goku was played by a man or they just only ever watch dubbed anime. This is just me trying to be deductive so don't take that as me saying that's definitely the case, it's just an idea.

Hypothetical scenario here, if Nozawa was replaced by a male voice actor during the Piccolo Jr story arc would there be more people willing to accept the Japanese version or would hate merely be replaced by disinterest?

- side note -, Yeah those comments you sometimes see online where the person basically says "I only ever watch anime in Japanese with subtitles...unless it's DBZ", those are for one, surprisingly frequent, but also they're confusing to me. So these people I can only assume they saw DBZ on Toonami or whatever as a kid and then never watched any other anime for a few years before they moved onto only watching anime in Japanese? The other assumption I make is that they must not watch a lot of anime, I mean who watches Cowboy Bebop, Fullmetal Alchemist, Baccano and Black Lagoon in Japanese? (no offence to anyone who does watch those shows in Japanese, I'm sure they're just as good in Japanese), however the final other assumption I can make is that these people start watching anime in Japanese from the start, they watch a couple of shows, then they remember that awesome fighting show that the internet loves so much and they watch it, then after they're done watching HunterxHunter they watch DBZ (i'm joking I'm joking) and they seek out the Japanese version since it's just natural to them at this point, but then they hear Goku's voice and it's so bad to them that they break from their tradition altogether and watch the dub instead (i mean honestly their real error was watching DBZ before DB!) (I mean imagine if someone started watching DB in Japanese but then immediately stopped the moment teen Goku showed up with the same voice, this is why i think it's exclusively an adult Goku problem)

[TheGreatness25]

I'm pretty sure that using Nozawa's portrayal of Goku is just an excuse. I can't imagine how watching a version of the series vastly different from its English-speaking counterpart does not solely hinder on one voice. And why Goku? Why not Gohan or Goten? I understand that it's probably the most frequently-heard voice in the franchise, but I don't think that's enough to really affect how a fan watches the series. It might be one of the things that those fans find annoying about the original series. I think that nostalgia plays a huge, huge, huge role in all of this. In one way or another, most of us are here because of nostalgia. Some fans never got to experience the original version of Dragon Ball until they were adults (or never got to experience it, period), so naturally nostalgia would gravitate them to the version that they grew up with.

[Ajay]

I mean who watches Cowboy Bebop, Fullmetal Alchemist, Baccano and Black Lagoon in Japanese?

I do.

And I think Fullmetal Alchemist on that list is a good way to answer your question of, "Would people be more accepting of the Japanese cast of Dragon Ball if adult Goku were voiced by a man?"

I'm sure Fullmetal Alchemist's dub is just fine and dandy, but dear god, I cannot watch it. Edward sounds far too old and Mustang's voice is weirdly deep. Doesn't work for me. Doesn't mesh with how I see those characters or what I'm used to from the Japanese.

So, much like how Nozawa's higher voice is a barrier to entry for a lot of dub fans, the opposite is true for me and Fullmetal Alchemist -- well, that, and the fact I don't really care for dubs in the first place.

In that sense, I can totally understand their perspective, even if I don't agree with it. I do think making yourself understand the appeal of the original show is far more important than getting used to some other company's version of it, though.

Maybe that's me justifying a little bit of hypocrisy here, but eh, I do think that's a big difference that's important to acknowledge.

Side note: I think all of those examples are part of this weird western trend of, "Well, the setting is western-looking, so clearly an English dub is better suited". I hate that argument so much.

[Metalwario64]

I assume so, lots of people I know only really point out Nozawa as the "problem" with the Japanese version. Quite a few of these people actually really like the others, especially Piccolo and Vegeta's VS.

Most of the time I see people say "everyone in the Japanese version sound like girls!".

[ekrolo2]

I assume so, lots of people I know only really point out Nozawa as the "problem" with the Japanese version. Quite a few of these people actually really like the others, especially Piccolo and Vegeta's VS.

Most of the time I see people say "everyone in the Japanese version sound like girls!".

Really? I can see this complaint for Goku and the males of his family but Piccolo and Vegeta sure as hell don't sound like girls at all.

[TheGreatness25]

Most of the time I see people say "everyone in the Japanese version sound like girls!".

But come on, this is clearly the argument of someone who hasn't seen anything more than a tiny clip or something. It's obvious that not everyone sounds like a girl and if a fan throws this argument at you, you're better off just smirking, turning around, and ignoring everything else that such a fan has to say. It's the same as arguing with someone that's never watched the series at all.

[Metalwario64]

Most of the time I see people say "everyone in the Japanese version sound like girls!".

But come on, this is clearly the argument of someone who hasn't seen anything more than a tiny clip or something. It's obvious that not everyone sounds like a girl and if a fan throws this argument at you, you're better off just smirking, turning around, and ignoring everything else that such a fan has to say. It's the same as arguing with someone that's never watched the series at all.

I know, I'm just saying that, outside of this place, I still see lots of people making that clearly uninformed statement.

[TheGreatness25]

What are you looking to get out of this, though? Kanzenshuu is obviously the place for you, where you don't have to deal with that kind of stuff. Are you trying to expand your horizons? I understand if you're frustrated that this is the only real place where you can be surrounded by fans that you like, but I feel like that on a daily basis with other things. Do you know of a good Batman forum? Because I sure don't. And yeah, I wish that there were many other forums like Kanzenshuu where there's always something new to talk about. I wish that I could talk to my friends about all things Dragon Ball. But I can't, so I know my parameters. If I want to have a good DB discussion, this is the place. I used to post frequently on another forum site before this and oh, how I wish that it was still like the good old days, but that forum is polluted by the most ridiculous nonsensical stuff now. Everything is a stupid vs thread (not even a good one, like Chaozu vs Ginyu type of stuff) and all of the seasoned members on there can't stop joking. Everything they post is sarcastic or trying to be funny. "Lord Appule kills SS Blue Goku lololol." You think I enjoy that stuff? No, but this is your sanctuary for being a DB fan. Just be grateful that we have Kanzenshuu in the first place. You'll never ever change those kinds of fans' minds. In this era, anyone can watch DB and suddenly become a "hardcore" fan. But those people will never know what it's like to watch a new episode come out on Toonami after years of re-runs. Those fans will never know what it's like discovering the original Japanese version for the first time. Those fans will never know what it's like to live in a world where everyone around you -- not just on the internet -- is a huge DB fan. So what do you want from them? They're a bunch of kids who saw a cartoon and now they think they're authority on it. Those are the fans that use scapegoat excuses because they simply do not care enough about the series. They're "hardcore" fans but don't care enough to educate themselves on it. We live in a world where anyone, anywhere can write whatever he or she wants and here you go. Your best bet is to stop expecting so much from these "lolol I'm a sooper hardcore fan bro" people.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

There are many combinations of issues that turn people off from the original style of DB to various extents, & everyone has brought up valid points. I do think that most people don't care for or understand dubs, & I plan to respond to almost all of the posts in here.

But for Nozawa's voice, I think the one really annoying thing is that she cracks at the loudest, deepest, angriest parts of Goku's character. In your lower register, you don't have as much range, & when you yell (or sing) you eventually just sound like "yourself", & in Nozawa's case...she's an older lady, & crackly voice is kinda what she sounds like. I think her calmer parts are rather cute & characteristic of Goku.

I think there needs to be a separate thread on "Japan vs Hollywood: cultural norms of casting young male characters" because the general norm seems to skew more to female VA's there. Conan is Pit, in the dub he's a dude. Rockman.EXE was a woman, in NT Warrior he's a dude (& in this case, I prefer it honestly. Andrew Francis is smooth as butter). Ratchet in the Japanese dub, is a woman (JAT does him in English). Mario Castaneda mentioned they originally considered casting a lady for adult Goku. I'm sure there's dozens of other times when "Japan cast woman, West cast man".

* The one other thing that bugs me is nepotistic casting - Masako Nozawa is a great Goku, but Gohan, Goten, & ffs Bardock are VERY different characters.

* HOwever, I will say that Chikao Otsuka playing Big Boss over Akio Otsuka's Solid Snake, as well as Banjo Ginga's similar voice to Akio for Liquid...is pretty cool. Plus the young-old combo of Furukawa & Aono (Roy Campbell & Piccolo) is pretty cool.

[TheGreatness25]

I don't think that they should cast a female for a male part just because the Japanese version did. I'm sure they weren't thinking so deeply into it; they just tried to fit the character in their interpretation.

[Metalwario64]

What are you looking to get out of this, though? Kanzenshuu is obviously the place for you, where you don't have to deal with that kind of stuff. Are you trying to expand your horizons? I understand if you're frustrated that this is the only real place where you can be surrounded by fans that you like, but I feel like that on a daily basis with other things. Do you know of a good Batman forum? Because I sure don't. And yeah, I wish that there were many other forums like Kanzenshuu where there's always something new to talk about. I wish that I could talk to my friends about all things Dragon Ball. But I can't, so I know my parameters. If I want to have a good DB discussion, this is the place. I used to post frequently on another forum site before this and oh, how I wish that it was still like the good old days, but that forum is polluted by the most ridiculous nonsensical stuff now. Everything is a stupid vs thread (not even a good one, like Chaozu vs Ginyu type of stuff) and all of the seasoned members on there can't stop joking. Everything they post is sarcastic or trying to be funny. "Lord Appule kills SS Blue Goku lololol." You think I enjoy that stuff? No, but this is your sanctuary for being a DB fan. Just be grateful that we have Kanzenshuu in the first place. You'll never ever change those kinds of fans' minds. In this era, anyone can watch DB and suddenly become a "hardcore" fan. But those people will never know what it's like to watch a new episode come out on Toonami after years of re-runs. Those fans will never know what it's like discovering the original Japanese version for the first time. Those fans will never know what it's like to live in a world where everyone around you -- not just on the internet -- is a huge DB fan. So what do you want from them? They're a bunch of kids who saw a cartoon and now they think they're authority on it. Those are the fans that use scapegoat excuses because they simply do not care enough about the series. They're "hardcore" fans but don't care enough to educate themselves on it. We live in a world where anyone, anywhere can write whatever he or she wants and here you go. Your best bet is to stop expecting so much from these "lolol I'm a sooper hardcore fan bro" people.

I'm... just saying that whenever I've seen the franchise brought up on other places, that's been the things I've seen people say. I was just pointing out some of my experiences. This thread is asking a question of Nozawa's voice turning off people from the Japanese version, and I've seen that happen many times throughout the years. I wasn't even saying that it was the case for everyone who dislikes the Japanese version, I'm just saying that when I've seen people criticize Nozawa for "sounding like a girl", they usually add in a comment about the FUNimation dub being "the only good dub of an anime because the Japanese cast sounds like girls".

I don't know how you got out of that being me looking around elsewhere for Dragon Ball discussion. I've seen these things said on sites that very much have nothing to do with Dragon Ball.

Though I only really visit Kanzenshuu, I might check up the DBZ Reddit due to Mike's comments in the latest podcast...

[TheGreatness25]

I'm just saying that you seem to be annoyed that people outside of here act that way and say that. Well how can we -- those who don't share that view -- explain why they feel that way and if they really do feel that way? I've learned a long time ago not to even bother thinking about those other fans outside of here. It was enough seeing some YouTube comments here and there to make me not even bother scrolling down there anymore. If "Goku sounds like a girl" was the worst of it, I'd understand, but you have fans who have zero knowledge of Dragon Ball talking about Dragon Ball.

[Bansho64]

[
I'm... just saying that whenever I've seen the franchise brought up on other places, that's been the things I've seen people say. I was just pointing out some of my experiences. This thread is asking a question of Nozawa's voice turning off people from the Japanese version, and I've seen that happen many times throughout the years. I wasn't even saying that it was the case for everyone who dislikes the Japanese version, I'm just saying that when I've seen people criticize Nozawa for "sounding like a girl", they usually add in a comment about the FUNimation dub being "the only good dub of an anime because the Japanese cast sounds like girls".

Bro, I hate those comments man. I know exactly what ones you're talking about. "Why does japanese Dbz have dat stupid old ass kaiju music in it" Not even joking. This is a comment from real life as well. I wrote it word for word. Even worst, I find that people tend to repeat that same argument and that same line. It's not even the repetition that annoys me. It's the sheer stupidity of the argument.
About the topic: Yeah, that one voice seems to be the only thing I find brought up when people say they hate Japanese Dragon Ball.

[Metalwario64]

I'm just saying that you seem to be annoyed that people outside of here act that way and say that. Well how can we -- those who don't share that view -- explain why they feel that way and if they really do feel that way? I've learned a long time ago not to even bother thinking about those other fans outside of here. It was enough seeing some YouTube comments here and there to make me not even bother scrolling down there anymore. If "Goku sounds like a girl" was the worst of it, I'd understand, but you have fans who have zero knowledge of Dragon Ball talking about Dragon Ball.

I honestly don't even care, I just brought them up because that was my experience. If people want to say what they want, then let them... uh.. say what they want?

[Android 50]

I'm used to Goku and Gohan's voices but man do I still find it hard getting used to the japanese score in the Z part of the series. It just sounds so boring and out of place and doesn't fit a lot of scenes for me. Falconers score is definitely the one I prefer and I also don't like Kai or Super's scores either. Kai's before the shoddy music replacement sounds even more dated than Z's soundtrack and Super doesn't have a memorable track out of the bunch for me save for maybe the new themes playing during Trunks' arc.
give me falconer any day over kikuchi.

[ABED]

It just sounds so boring and out of place and doesn't fit a lot of scenes for me

The operative words being "for me". Kikuchi gets the world he made the music for.

[floofychan333]

Not just that, every female Japanese voice sounds strained and unnatural.
Also, I don't personally mind Nozawa but there's no denying that at times she isn't even trying to sound like a man.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Not just that, every female Japanese voice sounds strained and unnatural.
Also, I don't personally mind Nozawa but there's no denying that at times she isn't even trying to sound like a man.

This totally misses the point. She wasn't trying to sound like a man, she was trying to represent the best she can of Goku's character. I take it you aren't familiar with theatrics either.

As far as the "all female Japanese voices" bit, oh my... As a scientist would say, "You're not even wrong."

[MCDaveG]

I dunno man, Japanese version isn't that hardcore, it's pretty lame actually

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I dunno man, Japanese version isn't that hardcore, it's pretty lame actually

Hardcore? Is that what you value in a product? I care more about integrity.