Let's talk about Trunks...

[perucho1990]

Trunks win wasnt really 100% full plot armor, it was 50 50.

The other 50 goes to Zamasu fighting like a headless chicken after the beatdown Vegetto gave him, he was completely blinded in rage and relied on raw strength.

[Bullza]

OH BOY ANOTHER BUT Z DID TOO THEREFORE SUPER SHOULD GET PASS BULLSHIT! no most of those examples you listed were explained while trunks wasn't at all. Seriously this "z did too shtick" needs to stop.

It's that Z did it and nobody really complains about it but Super does these things and people will.

I know they explained these things but that's not my point, it's that they're cheap and lame ass pull power ups. Gohan sitting down while the Elder Kai does a jig around him for a few hours that now made him enormous more powerful than Goku even though he'd spent years training was cheap.

What needs to be explained about Trunks? He got angry and got a new really powerful form out of it just like Goku and Gohan did in the past. It's self explanatory.

[Fishman]

Well that part we can blame it on Toriyama for making more powerful opponents and the Secondary characters becoming more and more useless.

But Potaras doesnt exactly make u 10000x more powerful(aside that they got nerfed...

Goku said that if he were to fuse with Mr Satan he could get weaker, and also Old Kai lost his raw strength when he fused with the witch, since it was implied all the Kaioshins could fodderize Namek Saga Frieza.

Old Kai lost strength when fusing with a witch because the witch was a sickly old woman. And as far as Goku saying he could get weaker if he fused with Mr. Satan, I can't help but feel like that was a joke (a funnier one than anything i've seen in Super) and not a statement to be taken literally. Because, I mean, come on. It's Satan. Wouldn't you worry?

It's that Z did it and nobody really complains about it but Super does these things and people will.

People complain about stupid things in Z all the time. It's basically the bulk of threads in the In-Universe Discussion subforum. Come on, now.

[Bullza]

People complain about stupid things in Z all the time. It's basically the bulk of threads in the In-Universe Discussion subforum. Come on, now.

Nothing like this though, not to the extent that half the people dislike the episode. I think part of it is just that it's how people are now, they're not able to enjoy things like they used to but there was no criticism like this for the ass pulls in DBZ.

The ass pull at the end if the Broly Movie didn't stop it from being the most popular one because people just enjoyed it for what it was. It wasn't picked apart like what things are these days.

[dbs fanboy]

And in #66 he absorbed a Genkidama, is not like he powered up on his own.

True, how did he do that again lol

That's pretty much the issue that i had with that scene, i liked the symbolism, i liked the fact that it was Trunks the one that gave the final blow, but it didn't make sense, either Trunks created a Genkidama and it doesn't make sense, or the humans simply gave Trunks their energy and it doesn't make sense.

[Boo Machine]

OH BOY ANOTHER BUT Z DID TOO THEREFORE SUPER SHOULD GET PASS BULLSHIT! no most of those examples you listed were explained while trunks wasn't at all. Seriously this "z did too shtick" needs to stop.

To be fair, If people can use comparisons to Z to convey what they don't like about Super, then others should be able to use comparisons to Z to defend Super.

I think when people do so, it isn't to make Z look worse, but to ask the question of 'Why is it ok for Z to get away with this, but not ok for Super to get away with it."

[PsionicWarrior]

I know they explained these things but that's not my point, it's that they're cheap and lame ass pull power ups. Gohan sitting down while the Elder Kai does a jig around him for a few hours that now made him enormous more powerful than Goku even though he'd spent years training was cheap.

What needs to be explained about Trunks? He got angry and got a new really powerful form out of it just like Goku and Gohan did in the past. It's self explanatory.

At least these "lame ass" powerups were backed up by context and took their time to happen, Trunks going straight from SSJ2 to something above GodKi because he got angry is anything but self-explanatory lol

[Bullza]

I know they explained these things but that's not my point, it's that they're cheap and lame ass pull power ups. Gohan sitting down while the Elder Kai does a jig around him for a few hours that now made him enormous more powerful than Goku even though he'd spent years training was cheap.

What needs to be explained about Trunks? He got angry and got a new really powerful form out of it just like Goku and Gohan did in the past. It's self explanatory.

At least these "lame ass" powerups were backed up by context and took their time to happen, Trunks going from SSJ2 to something above GodKi because he got angry is anything but self-explanatory lol

But if his new form has the aura that resembles God Ki and he can sense Super Saiyan Blue Vegito when he couldn't sense Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta before then it would mean that Trunks obtained God Ki so it'd explain why he'd be at or above that level.

Unless the problem people have is why he obtained God Ki and they didn't explain it to which I'd wonder where all these complaints were when Vegeta obtained it and it was never explained why. All we know that Vegeta did was cut grass, change bed sheets, scrub trees and lift blocks.

[Bansho64]

Unless the problem people have is why he obtained God Ki and they didn't explain it to which I'd wonder where all these complaints were when Vegeta obtained it and it was never explained why. All we know that Vegeta did was cut grass, change bed sheets, scrub trees and lift blocks.

What do you mean? I see those all the time. Especially, on here.

[PsionicWarrior]

But if his new form has the aura that resembles God Ki and he can sense Super Saiyan Blue Vegito when he couldn't sense Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta before then it would mean that Trunks obtained God Ki so it'd explain why he'd be at or above that level.

But you don't acquire GodKi by anger lol

[Boo Machine]

Trunks transformation FOR SURE needs at least some hint of what it even is. It's so weird to not have any idea of what he is doing.

But if we don't get one it will not ruin my enjoyment of the arc. It will just forever be this weird thing I can never explain to my friends.

Which is fine, I can't explain half the stuff that happens in this franchise anyhow.

[Bullza]

What do you mean? I see those all the time. Especially, on here.

I dont, I see people mention it or question it but people weren't complaining to this extent about it. A lot of people were fine to just accept it because "Oh but he trained with Whis" even though absolutely nothing that was shown explained it.

He was shown to have done chores and somehow he could sense God Ki, from changing the bed.

But you don't acquire GodKi by anger lol

We only know of two ways to acquire God Ki. Being born with it or going through that ritual. Vegeta did neither so how did he acquire it? Maybe it can be obtained by anger. Maybe it wasn't God Ki at all even though it looked like. Maybe it was just a really powerful form that put him at a high enough level to sense it like Golden Frieza could.

[PsionicWarrior]

We only know of two ways to acquire God Ki. Being born with it or going through that ritual. Vegeta did neither so how did he acquire it? Maybe it can be obtained by anger. Maybe it wasn't God Ki at all even though it looked like. Maybe it was just a really powerful form that put him at a high enough level to sense it like Golden Frieza could.

IIRC what we do know though is SSB is obtained through the opposite of anger so it would make little sense to link anger to that new kind of power, yes good question about Vegeta if someone knows I'd be happy to read about it lol

IMO it can only be something unrelated to God Ki but good luck explaining the whats and hows, not to mention the jump in power is the most ridiculous the franchise ever saw lol

[Lord Beerus]

I don't really mind the absurd moments that lead up to Future Trunks killing Zamasu. I swallowed worst bullshit in the original story and still enjoyed it for what it was because the moment(s) that is produced were usually great. So really all of the unusual moments in the Future Trunks arc are no different. I don't follow Dragon Ball and feel tied down by the quality of its writing, because if that were the case, I would have quit the series once the Androids and Cell appeared. I watch and keep following Dragon Ball because it's a spectacle. It's a fireworks show. And Future Trunks arc was the greatest fireworks show Dragon Ball has ever produced, in my opinion.

[Fishman]

People complain about stupid things in Z all the time. It's basically the bulk of threads in the In-Universe Discussion subforum. Come on, now.

Nothing like this though, not to the extent that half the people dislike the episode. I think part of it is just that it's how people are now, they're not able to enjoy things like they used to but there was no criticism like this for the ass pulls in DBZ.

The ass pull at the end if the Broly Movie didn't stop it from being the most popular one because people just enjoyed it for what it was. It wasn't picked apart like what things are these days.

What? The Broly Movies are so bad they're not even canon with each other. A ton of people don't like Broly. Honestly I'd equate the popularity of Super's brand of nonsense to come from the same place as the popularity of the Broly movies. Nothing's stopping Super from being popular, fans of Super just seem to get extremely defensive when they're hyped about something and the person sitting next to them says it sucked.

[perucho1990]

That's pretty much the issue that i had with that scene, i liked the symbolism, i liked the fact that it was Trunks the one that gave the final blow, but it didn't make sense, either Trunks created a Genkidama and it doesn't make sense, or the humans simply gave Trunks their energy and it doesn't make sense.

It looked like Trunks unlocked that ability, maybe it was one of the hidden ability his SSJB transformation has?

IIRC SSJG had regeneration abilities.

[dbs fanboy]

That's pretty much the issue that i had with that scene, i liked the symbolism, i liked the fact that it was Trunks the one that gave the final blow, but it didn't make sense, either Trunks created a Genkidama and it doesn't make sense, or the humans simply gave Trunks their energy and it doesn't make sense.

It looked like Trunks unlocked that ability, maybe it was one of the hidden ability his SSJB transformation has?

IIRC SSJG had regeneration abilities.

Idk, Trunks was surprised when the ball appeared.

[TheMikado]

What do you mean? I see those all the time. Especially, on here.

I dont, I see people mention it or question it but people weren't complaining to this extent about it. A lot of people were fine to just accept it because "Oh but he trained with Whis" even though absolutely nothing that was shown explained it.

He was shown to have done chores and somehow he could sense God Ki, from changing the bed.

But you don't acquire GodKi by anger lol

We only know of two ways to acquire God Ki. Being born with it or going through that ritual. Vegeta did neither so how did he acquire it? Maybe it can be obtained by anger. Maybe it wasn't God Ki at all even though it looked like. Maybe it was just a really powerful form that put him at a high enough level to sense it like Golden Frieza could.

I'm sorry but this is completely untrue. I've literally seems some of the same people in here defending Vegetas and Golden Freeza's power up and not claiming never to see the complaints. Idk how many threads on the topic have been made but claiming the fans are not complaining about Vegeta acquiring God ki is incredibly disingenuous and seems to be taking that stance yo validate something equally ridiculous.

[Marlowe89]

But you don't acquire GodKi by anger lol

Yeah, that's most likely the case for Goku and Vegeta since we saw them manifesting God ki for the first time after Whis specifically instructed them to calmly raise their ki within themselves without letting it leak.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean there's not more than one way of obtaining God ki, or at least a way of obtaining a transformation that is on par with God tier characters. Super Trunks' aura surely symbolizes that he's accomplished one of the two.

[Kamen Rider Revolver]

Power levels matter in this case as it is just 1 character getting stronger after doing nothing while the others get called weak and get nothing. Every characters should be able to get power ups like Trunks in this arc simple as.

It shouldn't matter that much that it gets in the way of people's enjoyment. Power levels aren't supposed to be taken that seriously. He trained, he got angry, he got a new form, that's why he was able to do what he did, it's simple enough. It doesn't need to be broken down into any kind of geeky analysis where people say "but he only trained for X period of time but when this character trained for Y period of time he didn't get the same consistent mathematical increase in power" or "but when he got angry this time his power only increased by X percent but now his power has increased by Y percent".

The series doesn't follow that line of thinking as was proven by the whole zenkai boost thing back on Namek. They get as strong as they need to be to tell the story that they want to tell, that's about it. It's just supposed to be a fun action series to entertain people, not something that is supposed to boggle the mind with thoughts of logic and consistency like some science book.

That's fine if want to turn your brain off and enjoy the scene as is. But power levels are important because consistent levels help create tension. If power levels are all over the place, then its hard for the viewer to know when something is a threat to heroes. That's just that excuse that you have to turn your brain to enjoy something.

Sometimes it feels like GT would of got destroyed for doing the same things Super is doing.