How would you move past EoZ?

[JulieYBM]

• Blooma and the other older Dragon Ball girls are kidnapped and have their youth restored by their kidnappers. Blooma uses her usual wiles to help them escape, all before Vegeta and the others have any time to do anything.
  
• Goten runs around impregnating every girl he can find.
• Mai forces Trunks to work, when all he wants to do is play.
• A bored Gokuu picks a fight with various demon clans in the Makai, kickstarting a new chain of events in which the world is wrap up in battle.
• Uub dies and we never have to think of him again.

Seriously? I don't see that happening ever outside of fanfics.

Goten making up for the lack of horniness in the Son family is the funniest route.

[Gog]

• Blooma and the other older Dragon Ball girls are kidnapped and have their youth restored by their kidnappers. Blooma uses her usual wiles to help them escape, all before Vegeta and the others have any time to do anything.
  
• Goten runs around impregnating every girl he can find.
• Mai forces Trunks to work, when all he wants to do is play.
• A bored Gokuu picks a fight with various demon clans in the Makai, kickstarting a new chain of events in which the world is wrap up in battle.
• Uub dies and we never have to think of him again.

Seriously? I don't see that happening ever outside of fanfics.

Goten making up for the lack of horniness in the Son family is the funniest route.

It'll only ever happen in your dreams. Also a doujsin if someone ever manages to get around to it. But it'll never happen in the actual show. It's a kid's show unfortunately.

[s-shield]

Here's an idea: What if Uub is the bad guy?

Think about it like this, 1) everyone always gives Uub crap for being boring and 2) no one wants him taking over from Goku as the main character. Taking both those points into account, what the heck do you do with him?

For all the enemies Goku has fought (and arguably been responsible for), the one variation we haven't seen is Goku fighting his own disciple. Maybe I'm skewing a little Obi-Wan and Anakin here (I wouldn't know, not a big Star Wars guy), but I think the difference could be that Goku senses Uub's darker, original, nature coming thru, and he doesn't care. He just wants the best fight ever!

We already saw Uub have a rage-out moment when he was introduced, when Goku kept insulting his family. Maybe he gets those a lot, and every time he does, he gets a little closer to becoming Buu Reborn, or something.

In any case, however you spin it, I think Uub turning bad for whatever reason kind of solves "The Problem of Uub" and also ties into classic DBZ themes of the heroes creating their own problems by being battle junkies. All this allows for Goku to stay on as the main character but doesn't undo his promise to Uub and the reader in the finale. He does train Uub, who goes on to be super important, just not the way we thought.

Just my take.

[JulieYBM]

It'll only ever happen in your dreams. Also a doujsin if someone ever manages to get around to it. But it'll never happen in the actual show. It's a kid's show unfortunately.

Thus thread is based on a premise of fantasy. Anything goes, because our ideas sure as hell will never be used no matter what 'facts' and 'logic' we cling to in any sort of grabs at legitimacy.

[Gog]

It'll only ever happen in your dreams. Also a doujsin if someone ever manages to get around to it. But it'll never happen in the actual show. It's a kid's show unfortunately.

Thus thread is based on a premise of fantasy. Anything goes, because our ideas sure as hell will never be used no matter what 'facts' and 'logic' we cling to in any sort of grabs at legitimacy.

I know, I know. But I also know that you want Dragon Ball to be a more sexier show. Also... Female Broly, and Evil Goku were used. So anything goes at this point in time.

[mfwlegend3]

I thought how GT opened with Goku and Oob finishing up their training sessions was pretty fun to watch, even though it was pretty short, so I'd open up the time-skip with that. Only except the battle being taken place inside of Kami's Temple, I would have it near Oob's village so that we could be introduced to Oob's family and fellow villagers. The time gap would be about roughly 3 years. Goku and Oob engage in an intense battle. Afterwards, Goku praises Oob's improvement and thanks him for the matches they've had up until then. Goku stays with Oob in his village for one final night before finally deciding to head out to meet up with his family. The series would go from there.

[emperior]

Here's an idea: What if Uub is the bad guy?

Think about it like this, 1) everyone always gives Uub crap for being boring and 2) no one wants him taking over from Goku as the main character. Taking both those points into account, what the heck do you do with him?

For all the enemies Goku has fought (and arguably been responsible for), the one variation we haven't seen is Goku fighting his own disciple. Maybe I'm skewing a little Obi-Wan and Anakin here (I wouldn't know, not a big Star Wars guy), but I think the difference could be that Goku senses Uub's darker, original, nature coming thru, and he doesn't care. He just wants the best fight ever!

We already saw Uub have a rage-out moment when he was introduced, when Goku kept insulting his family. Maybe he gets those a lot, and every time he does, he gets a little closer to becoming Buu Reborn, or something.

In any case, however you spin it, I think Uub turning bad for whatever reason kind of solves "The Problem of Uub" and also ties into classic DBZ themes of the heroes creating their own problems by being battle junkies. All this allows for Goku to stay on as the main character but doesn't undo his promise to Uub and the reader in the finale. He does train Uub, who goes on to be super important, just not the way we thought.

Just my take.

Uub was reincarnated to be pure good, that's why he's shown riding the Kinto'un in the Kanzenban ending. It would be impossible for him to become evil. About his rage moments, he was obviously going to get a little angry when Goku started to insult him and his family.

[s-shield]

Uub was reincarnated to be pure good, that's why he's shown riding the Kinto'un in the Kanzenban ending. It would be impossible for him to become evil. About his rage moments, he was obviously going to get a little angry when Goku started to insult him and his family.

And Vegeta has murdered countless people throughout the universe, but got resurrected along with all the good people in the Buu arc. Master Roshi used to be able to ride Kinto'un too (presumably), but lost that privilege for something as simple as being a pervert. People change. Anyone can be anything if you write it that way. Nothing's impossible, lol.

[emperior]

Uub was reincarnated to be pure good, that's why he's shown riding the Kinto'un in the Kanzenban ending. It would be impossible for him to become evil. About his rage moments, he was obviously going to get a little angry when Goku started to insult him and his family.

And Vegeta has murdered countless people throughout the universe, but got resurrected along with all the good people in the Buu arc. Master Roshi used to be able to ride Kinto'un too (presumably), but lost that privilege for something as simple as being a pervert. People change. Anyone can be anything if you write it that way. Nothing's impossible, lol.

Sure, but it would be lame if the good reincarnation of Buu became evil.

[s-shield]

Sure, but it would be lame if the good reincarnation of Buu became evil.

I feel like it would be even more lame if he just stood there and applauded while Goku did cool stuff for the rest of their lives, lol. But to each his own.

[Metalwario64]

If we ever move past Z, I really want a SS5/Tablos esque design to appear. That would be the ultimate fanservice.

[Basaku]

Goku was training for the inevitable clash with the strongest being in the known universe at the time. I'd say that was important.

It was not moving the plot though. Kuririn, Gohan, Vegeta, Namekians & Freeza were doing it. And it was fine, everyone loved it, Namek saga turned out to be fantastically constructed and engaging. Without Goku even on the planet.

Everything revolving around the main character is nothing remotely new in DB. The story existed before Z. The best part of DB for me was the first series and Goku was firmly in the driver seat the whole time. It became a little more of an ensemble later. That just shows the story can do both and it's not bad if it is one or the other.

Yet you're arguing with me at every point where I mention examples within the franchise where the ensemble cast shined or even outshined Goku lol. I get it, he's your favourite in the "driver's seat". But the larger cast is a huge part of the reson the series is so beloved. Not because of DBS-quality of "content" thrown at Gohan/Kururin like a bone to a dog, but thanks to critical plot involvement in Freeza-Cell sagas. The series could have easily swapped to Gohan as main lead, or even someone else because multiple characters were heavily established with quality content. Nowadays it would be harder as Super is pandering amost exclusively to GOku & Vegeta, but nonetheless. DBZ made the franchise NOT synonymous with Goku and fully dependant on him and showed that it could move forward. Other characters had no issues maintaining the audience's interest for extended periods of time.

Are we talking about popularity?

You're saying this as if it didn't matter? Yes, Saiyan/Freeza/Android/Cell sagas made DB the phenomenon it is. Popularity is not everything, but to dismiss obvious examples is to dismiss facts.

[Ozotto]

1) I'd probably just do a retelling of GT, adjust character designs slightly. Off the top of my head...

- Goku wouldn't become a child.
- Keep Baby and Shadow Dragons, replace Super 17 arc with a Makaioshin arc, maybe i'd bring back Dabura, idk.
- I feel as if Raditz should make a return appearance or something.
- Uub, Gohan, Goten and Trunks would play bigger roles in the series.
- Adult Gotenks. But more true to the DBZ version over the Heroes version... aka no black shirt.
- EoZ clothing seen more regularly on Goten and Trunks.
- Redesign SS4 and it's lore. Becomes a stage after ssj3, gold hair remains, current ssj4 hair style is the same. No monkey fur or tails.
- Remove movie characters from background.
- Uub begins series by wearing an orange dogi then is replaced with Kid Buu's clothing when he assimilates Fat Buu.
- SSJ3 Vegeta
- SSJ Pan
- Gohan still looks as bad ass as he did against Super Buu.
- The main fighting cast against the major villains would be Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten & Trunks (Gotenks), Uub, and Pan.
- Nuova Shenron doesn't die, becomes good, joins Z fighters.


IDK basically a fusion of GT with AF weaseling its way in there a bit.

[Gog]

1) I'd probably just do a retelling of GT, adjust character designs slightly. Off the top of my head...

- Goku wouldn't become a child.
- Keep Baby and Shadow Dragons, replace Super 17 arc with a Makaioshin arc, maybe i'd bring back Dabura, idk.
- I feel as if Raditz should make a return appearance or something.
- Uub, Gohan, Goten and Trunks would play bigger roles in the series.
- Adult Gotenks. But more true to the DBZ version over the Heroes version... aka no black shirt.
- EoZ clothing seen more regularly on Goten and Trunks.
- Redesign SS4 and it's lore. Becomes a stage after ssj3, gold hair remains, current ssj4 hair style is the same. No monkey fur or tails.
- Remove movie characters from background.
- Uub begins series by wearing an orange dogi then is replaced with Kid Buu's clothing when he assimilates Fat Buu.
- SSJ3 Vegeta
- SSJ Pan
- Gohan still looks as bad ass as he did against Super Buu.
- The main fighting cast against the major villains would be Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten & Trunks (Gotenks), Uub, and Pan.
- Nuova Shenron doesn't die, becomes good, joins Z fighters.


IDK basically a fusion of GT with AF weaseling its way in there a bit.

If SS4 is a stage after SS3 then there would not be any reason to use it in the first place. Also I'd actually replace 17 with Gero

[ABED]

Goku was training for the inevitable clash with the strongest being in the known universe at the time. I'd say that was important.

It was not moving the plot though. Kuririn, Gohan, Vegeta, Namekians & Freeza were doing it. And it was fine, everyone loved it, Namek saga turned out to be fantastically constructed and engaging. Without Goku even on the planet.

Everything revolving around the main character is nothing remotely new in DB. The story existed before Z. The best part of DB for me was the first series and Goku was firmly in the driver seat the whole time. It became a little more of an ensemble later. That just shows the story can do both and it's not bad if it is one or the other.

Yet you're arguing with me at every point where I mention examples within the franchise where the ensemble cast shined or even outshined Goku lol. I get it, he's your favourite in the "driver's seat". But the larger cast is a huge part of the reson the series is so beloved. Not because of DBS-quality of "content" thrown at Gohan/Kururin like a bone to a dog, but thanks to critical plot involvement in Freeza-Cell sagas. The series could have easily swapped to Gohan as main lead, or even someone else because multiple characters were heavily established with quality content. Nowadays it would be harder as Super is pandering amost exclusively to GOku & Vegeta, but nonetheless. DBZ made the franchise NOT synonymous with Goku and fully dependant on him and showed that it could move forward. Other characters had no issues maintaining the audience's interest for extended periods of time.

Are we talking about popularity?

You're saying this as if it didn't matter? Yes, Saiyan/Freeza/Android/Cell sagas made DB the phenomenon it is. Popularity is not everything, but to dismiss obvious examples is to dismiss facts.

The show was already popular, the Saiyan arc nor the Freeza arc made it what it was. It simply was more popular. It's far too difficult to say what was the reason for the show's increasing popularity.

Your view on plot is limited. Yes, the chess pieces were being moved without Goku, but it is all moving in the direction of Goku vs. Freeza. Goku flying to Namek is part of the plot.

Lol whatever you want, I wasn't arguing that there weren't points where it was more of an ensemble, but some of the best points of the show, but they didn't outshine Goku. You can't possibly claim the one reason the show was as beloved was any particular thing. There are too many fans for there to be one single reason. The series could never have kept Gohan as the lead. He doesn't have the personality for it in this show. He's a reluctant hero. Goku IS the icon. When people think of Dragon Ball, who is the character most associate with it? Keeping Goku front and center in no way diminishes Toriyama's ability to develop characters and give them a purpose in the story as he did with Dragon Ball.

[Bryesque]

1) I'd probably just do a retelling of GT, adjust character designs slightly. Off the top of my head...

- Goku wouldn't become a child.
- Keep Baby and Shadow Dragons, replace Super 17 arc with a Makaioshin arc, maybe i'd bring back Dabura, idk.
- I feel as if Raditz should make a return appearance or something.
- Uub, Gohan, Goten and Trunks would play bigger roles in the series.
- Adult Gotenks. But more true to the DBZ version over the Heroes version... aka no black shirt.
- EoZ clothing seen more regularly on Goten and Trunks.
- Redesign SS4 and it's lore. Becomes a stage after ssj3, gold hair remains, current ssj4 hair style is the same. No monkey fur or tails.
- Remove movie characters from background.
- Uub begins series by wearing an orange dogi then is replaced with Kid Buu's clothing when he assimilates Fat Buu.
- SSJ3 Vegeta
- SSJ Pan
- Gohan still looks as bad ass as he did against Super Buu.
- The main fighting cast against the major villains would be Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten & Trunks (Gotenks), Uub, and Pan.
- Nuova Shenron doesn't die, becomes good, joins Z fighters.


IDK basically a fusion of GT with AF weaseling its way in there a bit.

Yeah, I could get behind this. There are a few little nuggets of good (or good ideas, at least) in GT, but it's pretty hard to get through on the whole. A do-over like this would sit a lot better with me.

I know the very ending epilogue of the series is one of its better points, but I've always loved this little sketch of Old Man Goku, and if the franchise as a whole has a firm ending, I'd really love to see this come to life:

[Basaku]

but they didn't outshine Goku.

yea they did, to the point of Gohan winning popularity contests. But to quote "whatever you want".

Keeping Goku front and center in no way diminishes Toriyama's ability to develop characters and give them a purpose in the story as he did with Dragon Ball.

Super proves otherwise, Toriyama's having very hard time letting anyone else other than Goku & Vegeta have major involvement in the plot.

[mabalia]

I know the very ending epilogue of the series is one of its better points, but I've always loved this little sketch of Old Man Goku, and if the franchise as a whole has a firm ending, I'd really love to see this come to life:

I'd like to see Goku becoming this old in the series too.

[emperior]

- Showcase a lot more of the training Uub did with Goku, also showing Goku teaching him all his moves including the teleportation
- Uub begins series by wearing an orange dogi, then is replaced with Kid Buu's clothing when he assimilates Fat Buu
- Black Star DBs hunt would last a maximum of 5 episodes
- There would be a few more arcs, and the existing ones would be fixed/changed here and there
- I would remove the fillerish episodes and add more training episodes which are cool and a big part of the series
- Uub, Gohan, Goten and Trunks would play bigger roles in the series
- Goten and Trunks use their EoZ clothes when fighting
- Remove movie characters from background.
- Vegeta would be more important and would be able to go SSJ3
- Pan would eventually go SSJ
- Gohan keeps his Ultimate form
- The main fighting cast against the major villains would be Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten & Trunks (Gotenks), Uub, and Pan

I changed it up a little bit to my preferences. I wouldn't completely change GT as it would lose its identity, but changing some things here and there while improving it would surely make it a much more enjoyable experience.

[UltimateHammerBro]

To be fair, I'm quite happy with the idea of EoZ. It leaves the door open, and there's so much potential for future adventures that I'd rather leave it to our imagination rather than have Toei make a story that is bound to disappoint some of us.

This said, I think EoZ could almost perfectly jump to the last scenes of GT. Goku leaves to train with Uub, we get a nice little montage showing Uub as the righteous defender of Earth, with Goku and Vegeta's families forming generations of fighters, both of them passing (old age? Last fight à la DBO? I prefer the latter) and then we cut to a hundred years later with Goku coming back to the world of the living to see his descendant fight. I think it'd be quite poignant.