Will people give up if humans/androids can withstand attacks from Gods/Super Saiyan Blue?

[Lord Beerus]

MajinMan hit the nail on the head with his post. There's nothing wrong with wanting consistency in power strength. But if Dragon Ball Super went down the conventional route of power scaling, then really nobody would matter in the plot beyond Goku and Vegeta. And Super is already dealing with major complaints that Goku and Vegeta do everything the show. So having guys like Roshi, Tien and Krillin being brought back into prominence is a very welcome direction to me. How consistent the battle powers are have never been a issue to me. I'm more interested in the show providing major moments for characters outside of the Saiyans, aliens and Gods and the latest arc is doing that. And more power to them for it.

I don't agree with the underlined. Ridiculous/over-the-top power-ups is the rule in Dragon Ball, the difference between them and Super anime is that no matter how silly they were Mr.Toriyama would give us an explanation; Zenkais, Super Saiyan, magical water, training with Kami, Elder Guru bringing out the potential, etc..

Super Saiyan Ikari or whatever it's called is something that would totally fit in Dragon Ball to make a character stronger. The problem is the Super Anime didn't even bother giving a semblance of an explanation to something that's out-of-nowhere. Add this example to all others and we have a problem and not a case of people being uptight.

I find it very problematic that the "we have to disregard writing to make characters stronger" argument is going around in this thread. The anime should bother to saying something like "Trunks unlocked this new transformation because he trained with Vegeta and was able to mix God Ki with regular Ki". It's exactly the kind of short and simple information Mr. Toriyama would have given us. We need to hold the anime to these standards which aren't even high!

I did not say transformations don't need explanations. I mean, in regards to Super Saiyan Rage, we already know that Saiyan's battle power spike when under intense emotion and can lead to them tapping into new form previously not possible. We see it with Goku, Gohan and Vegeta. On top of that, being a half breed Saiyan automatically put you ahead of the genetic curve, and gives you better access to more latent power. And considering that SSJ2 Future Trunks was able to raise his SSJ2 form to being comparable to SSJ3 Goku, it obvious that Future Trunks had a hell of lot of hidden power, and just need the right trigger to tap into all of it. I mean, we still don't explicit explanations as to how Super Saiyan 3 or Super Saiyan 4 are a thing. One minutes Goku say's he's gonna fight SSJ2 Majin Vegeta at his maximun strength at SSJ2. Then the next second, he can suddenly transform into a SSJ3. One minute Goku is a Golden Oozaru and then next minute he's a Super Saiyan 4. And those transformations are pivotal to the context of the story for when they are introduced and continue to be so within their own narrative. You just have take at face value what's happened and make your own deduction from pre-established material so that you can come to you own rationale conclusion. Like I just did with Super Saiyan Rage. It's not the greatest explanation, but at the very, it work well enough within the context of the the current story and what we've seen previously in Dragon Ball.

[HybridSaiyan]

...But Krillin is as strong as SSB Goku now, who cares. This Is Super, where anything can become a reality. We have fembroly for fucks sake lmao. I'm sure Toriyama said woman can't become Super Saiyans.

[Zamasu55]

Yes, I will.
But I don't think it'll happen at all, probably there will be a maximum of 2/3 God-tier characters per Universe...

So far we have:

Goku.
Vegeta.
Hit.
Toppo.
Jiren.

[Zamasu55]

SS2 Trunks hurting Goku Black Rosé and surviving a Black Kame Hame Ha says hello. He also fought Future Zamas, who was able to damage the SSBs.

Future Zamasu was said to lower his guard at times because of his immortality.

[Ki Breaker]

I'm sure Toriyama said woman can't become Super Saiyans.

He never said that

[Polyphase Avatron]

No, it's always been inconsistent like that

[SansrivaaL]

Will I give up? no not really, but I will to some degree be pissed for a day or two, what matters to me the most is watching some good fights with good animations and choreography thats all I ask for, which the exhibition match didnt lack in, so long as we get fights like that? I'd be ok with Krillin beating the shit out of Toppo or Roshi beating the bloody hell out of FemBroly. For plot purposes I'm sure the others will get matched up with characters close to their levels, it is not a guarantee that everyone not from U7 will be SSJB tiers.

[Lord Beerus]

...But Krillin is as strong as SSB Goku now, who cares. This Is Super, where anything can become a reality. We have fembroly for fucks sake lmao. I'm sure Toriyama said woman can't become Super Saiyans.

He never said anything like that.

[SansrivaaL]

I'm sure Toriyama said woman can't become Super Saiyans.

He never said that

...But Krillin is as strong as SSB Goku now, who cares. This Is Super, where anything can become a reality. We have fembroly for fucks sake lmao. I'm sure Toriyama said woman can't become Super Saiyans.

He never said anything like that.

I think he's being sarcastic since we've barely seen anything that puts Krillin close to SSJB level besides the preview. Goku going SSJB there can have a different meaning, Toei's not that desperate to have Krillin go toe to toe or remotely close to SSJB, I mean, they couldnt do it with Future Trunks.

[TheMikado]

So as we know, Android 17 and 18 are only more powerful than a standard Super Saiyan 1. Piccolo is somewhere above that but below Super Saiyan 2 or Perfect Cell. Krillin, Tenshihan cannot possibly be near Freeza 100% on Namek, and Roshi is weaker than King Piccolo in Dragonball.

If you see these characters somehow withstanding and hurting characters on the level of Super Saiyan Blue or the other Gods, will people officially give up? At that point literally all form of logic or progression of power levels will be completely thrown out the window, and there will be no justification of how they can do something like that.

If anything like this happened back in DBZ, the characters would be vaporized or knocked out in one blast or attack. Will the crap really hit the fan and put a damper on this tournament if this happens?

Here is pretty much the crux of the issue.. Scale.
We've basically been told that a single SSG punch is enough to destroy the entire universe with a shockwave. We then futher exceed that by stacking SSB on top of that and exceeding it. Further we actually have Goku going SSB X KK X10. It would think that would make Goku at least 100x stronger if not 100s of x stronger than he was as a SSG when he could destroy the universe with a single punch. If Krillin is about to withstand the force of even Goku just breathing heavy it would feel completely unearned on Krillins side.

[Nano]

If ss2 Trunks can do it, why not Roshi?

[Lord Beerus]

So as we know, Android 17 and 18 are only more powerful than a standard Super Saiyan 1. Piccolo is somewhere above that but below Super Saiyan 2 or Perfect Cell. Krillin, Tenshihan cannot possibly be near Freeza 100% on Namek, and Roshi is weaker than King Piccolo in Dragonball.

If you see these characters somehow withstanding and hurting characters on the level of Super Saiyan Blue or the other Gods, will people officially give up? At that point literally all form of logic or progression of power levels will be completely thrown out the window, and there will be no justification of how they can do something like that.

If anything like this happened back in DBZ, the characters would be vaporized or knocked out in one blast or attack. Will the crap really hit the fan and put a damper on this tournament if this happens?

Here is pretty much the crux of the issue.. Scale.
We've basically been told that a single SSG punch is enough to destroy the entire universe with a shockwave. We then futher exceed that by stacking SSB on top of that and exceeding it. Further we actually have Goku going SSB X KK X10. It would think that would make Goku at least 100x stronger if not 100s of x stronger than he was as a SSG when he could destroy the universe with a single punch. If Krillin is about to withstand the force of even Goku just breathing heavy it would feel completely unearned on Krillins side.

Power-scaling has really been an issue as old as time in Dragon Ball. We see Roshi blow up the fucking moon with a battle power of 180. Yet we see the likes of Goku, Raditz, and Piccolo, who are several times stronger than that, and the best they do is blow up mountains. And then when Vegeta powered up at the beginning of his fight against Goku in the Saiyan arc, he was created cyclones from it, turned the skies dark and literally made the whole world shake. And yet the only time we see anything even remotely similar to that is when Goku is powering up... into a SSJ3. Which is tens of millions stronger than anything we see in the Saiyan arc. And then later in the Namek arc, we see that you don't need a big gap in strength at all to kill you opponent, as clearly demonstrated with Vegeta and Zarbon fight each other. Hell, a very minuscule gap in power is more than enough to overwhelm and kill your opponent. And when Goku hits Vegeta, who has a BP of 18,000, with his KKx4 Kamehameha, which has a BP of over 32,000. How the hell does Vegeta not instantly die from that?

How does any of this add up?

It's the pitfalls of Toriyama's improvisational writing style, coupled with the awful power creep that has had a stranglehold on the plot of Dragon Ball from the Saiyan arc and beyond. Even though you know that a character with a battle power in the tens of thousands would wipe out the Earth by just powering up, you ultimately don't see that much in terms of display from a character that thousands, if not, millions of times stronger because there would simply be no Earth left, period. The best you're gonna get is lip service in terms of strength.

[Dbzfan94]

Will still be more interesting than the Resurrection 'F' re-telling arc...!

Watching paint dry is more interesting than the Resurrection F retelling.

[Lord Beerus]

Will still be more interesting than the Resurrection 'F' re-telling arc...!

Watching paint dry is more interesting than the Resurrection F retelling.

Don't drag paint into this. It's make the wall in my room more lively and interesting.

But seriously, nothing in Super can reach the unbelievably low bar of quality that is the Resurrection F retelling.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

So as we know, Android 17 and 18 are only more powerful than a standard Super Saiyan 1. Piccolo is somewhere above that but below Super Saiyan 2 or Perfect Cell. Krillin, Tenshihan cannot possibly be near Freeza 100% on Namek, and Roshi is weaker than King Piccolo in Dragonball.

If you see these characters somehow withstanding and hurting characters on the level of Super Saiyan Blue or the other Gods, will people officially give up? At that point literally all form of logic or progression of power levels will be completely thrown out the window, and there will be no justification of how they can do something like that.

I encourage Super to do this, I don't give a single F**** about powerlevels, they are cancer, and I will enjoy every single drop of salt from every fan overly attached to fictional and arbitrary numbers goin nuts for said numbers not matching up with their headcanons

[SaiyanGod117]

At this point I don't even care anymore the powerscaling is so skewd, that its not even worth discussing about anymore. Although, if I ever see anything like the horrible powerscaling and asspulls like we saw in the FT arc, that's officially when I'm done with Super.

[TheMathemagician]

So as we know, Android 17 and 18 are only more powerful than a standard Super Saiyan 1. Piccolo is somewhere above that but below Super Saiyan 2 or Perfect Cell. Krillin, Tenshihan cannot possibly be near Freeza 100% on Namek, and Roshi is weaker than King Piccolo in Dragonball.

If you see these characters somehow withstanding and hurting characters on the level of Super Saiyan Blue or the other Gods, will people officially give up? At that point literally all form of logic or progression of power levels will be completely thrown out the window, and there will be no justification of how they can do something like that.

If anything like this happened back in DBZ, the characters would be vaporized or knocked out in one blast or attack. Will the crap really hit the fan and put a damper on this tournament if this happens?

Here is pretty much the crux of the issue.. Scale.
We've basically been told that a single SSG punch is enough to destroy the entire universe with a shockwave. We then futher exceed that by stacking SSB on top of that and exceeding it. Further we actually have Goku going SSB X KK X10. It would think that would make Goku at least 100x stronger if not 100s of x stronger than he was as a SSG when he could destroy the universe with a single punch. If Krillin is about to withstand the force of even Goku just breathing heavy it would feel completely unearned on Krillins side.

Power-scaling has really been an issue as old as time in Dragon Ball. We see Roshi blow up the fucking moon with a battle power of 180. Yet we see the likes of Goku, Raditz, and Piccolo, who are several times stronger than that, and the best they do is blow up mountains. And then when Vegeta powered up at the beginning of his fight against Goku in the Saiyan arc, he was created cyclones from it, turned the skies dark and literally made the whole world shake. And yet the only time we see anything even remotely similar to that is when Goku is powering up... into a SSJ3. Which is tens of millions stronger than anything we see in the Saiyan arc. And then later in the Namek arc, we see that you don't need a big gap in strength at all to kill you opponent, as clearly demonstrated with Vegeta and Zarbon fight each other. Hell, a very minuscule gap in power is more than enough to overwhelm and kill your opponent. And when Goku hits Vegeta, who has a BP of 18,000, with his KKx4 Kamehameha, which has a BP of over 32,000. How the hell does Vegeta not instantly die from that?

How does any of this add up?

It's the pitfalls of Toriyama's improvisational writing style, coupled with the awful power creep that has had a stranglehold on the plot of Dragon Ball from the Saiyan arc and beyond. Even though you know that a character with a battle power in the tens of thousands would wipe out the Earth by just powering up, you ultimately don't see that much in terms of display from a character that thousands, if not, millions of times stronger because there would simply be no Earth left, period. The best you're gonna get is lip service in terms of strength.

Well just to be clear, BoZ Piccolo did blow up the moon as his best feat.

[HybridSaiyan]

At this point I don't even care anymore the powerscaling is so skewd, that its not even worth discussing about anymore. Although, if I ever see anything like the horrible powerscaling and asspulls like we saw in the FT arc, that's officially when I'm done with Super.

Future Trunks had the power to defeat Cell. That prick.

[kinisking]

So as we know, Android 17 and 18 are only more powerful than a standard Super Saiyan 1. Piccolo is somewhere above that but below Super Saiyan 2 or Perfect Cell. Krillin, Tenshihan cannot possibly be near Freeza 100% on Namek, and Roshi is weaker than King Piccolo in Dragonball.

If you see these characters somehow withstanding and hurting characters on the level of Super Saiyan Blue or the other Gods, will people officially give up? At that point literally all form of logic or progression of power levels will be completely thrown out the window, and there will be no justification of how they can do something like that.

If anything like this happened back in DBZ, the characters would be vaporized or knocked out in one blast or attack. Will the crap really hit the fan and put a damper on this tournament if this happens?

Here is pretty much the crux of the issue.. Scale.
We've basically been told that a single SSG punch is enough to destroy the entire universe with a shockwave. We then futher exceed that by stacking SSB on top of that and exceeding it. Further we actually have Goku going SSB X KK X10. It would think that would make Goku at least 100x stronger if not 100s of x stronger than he was as a SSG when he could destroy the universe with a single punch. If Krillin is about to withstand the force of even Goku just breathing heavy it would feel completely unearned on Krillins side.

Ssg couldnt destroy the entire universe with one punch. Even in the episode where shock waves were shown, it took multiple punches and it still didn't destroy the universe. Not to mention, SSG needed the power of Beerus to do that. It couldn't have done that in it's own. Finally, it only happened when they charged at each other. They weren't mere punches. Also, just because he's transformed doesn't mean he's going all out. Why does everyone assume the characters have to go all out when they're just sparring. It's like seeing a martial arts teacher teaching a kid how to fight and getting mad when the teacher doesn't knock him out in one hit.

[Miracles]

But...But...Mai took an attack from Goku Black, a god, Bro!!!