Super: Yay or Nay?

[ekrolo2]

Channel your love for the stupidity of Wolverine Origins (if you have it that is) and you'll at least have a decently good time with Super.

But as someone who thinks the series writing progressively breaks down more and more, Super doesn't hold together at all. If anything, it's the worst of any DB related thing in this regard, entire concepts get brought in then dropped entirely and the show contradicts itself with great frequency.

Like how Goku and Vegeta apparently can't power up much anymore from the ROSAT and then later on it gives Vegeta a massive strength increase to overcome a particular adversary. This isn't even an implication: Vegeta flat out says "We can't get much stronger anymore!" and then he does anyway.

And for any who tell me that some semblance of consistency doesn't matter with regards to character powers, in a fighting show it absolutely does. Otherwise, what does it matter if Goku & Vegeta train with Whis when #17 can get a blow job off-screen and match Super Saiyan Blue with fucking nothing at his disposal to justify a power increase like that, means that Goku & Vegeta used and gained far smaller gains.

[TheAldella]

Bardock also lessens it because it's another toei-original Goku clone that murders relentlessly, protagonist or not. I blame Toei's Z contributions for all of this. Not Super.

Bardock was designed by Toriyama, though, if I'm not mistaken.

You're right. Nakatsuru's Bardock looked like Vegeta with even worse bedhead.

[Lord Beerus]

Yay.

Dragon Ball Super shows a lot of promise with it's lore and can be very engaging even during it's most uneventful episodes. Nut the show still has many rough edges with its extremely inconsistent animation, occasionally flat soundtrack and the unappealing current Yamamuro artstyle. On certain days, when Super wants to be great, it can be really great. But when it's awful, holy shit, is it awful. I'd still say the show it worth a shot. But a word of advice, start from the Champa/Universe 6 arc (Episode 28), becuase that's where the show really picks up in terms of overall quality and Future Trunks arc has show the potential of how great Super can be. As while the Battle Of Gods retelling was quite decent despite its problems, one half of the Resurrection F retelling was abysmal and one of the low points of the franchise and the other half was mildly inoffensive.

If the anime is not your thing, check out the manga. It's really damn good. It has a more consistent art style, a more streamlined story with less fat in the narrative compared to the anime and the power scale is far more workable. But the manga itself lacks any time for character development and breather periods which helped the story feel more engrossing and less rushed.

[Grimlock]

Can I choose "meh"? It's the in-between of "yay" and "nay".

I don't know, man... Dragon Ball Super should bring exciting stuff, yet, we're getting tournaments after tournaments and the return of characters who shouldn't return, those factors really affect the quality in my point of view and are unacceptable these days. Yet, the way some things are being handled kinda makes for it. For example, Trunks' returning was unnecessary unless to make a bridge to Dragon Ball Online, while they didn't do it, the way the saga was handled was cool. I didn't even feel Goku Black was a Turles, which means he was his own character, pretty distinctive. The explanation of Majin Buu in his future world, learning that Trunks can transform into Super Saiyan 2... The overall saga was awesome. As I'm always saying, Dragon Ball Super has the potential to leave the safe zone and bring the unexpected but they just don't take the chance to do so. The Universe Survival saga would be more interesting if Universe 6 didn't happen. A tournament made up with other Universes and that they can be destroyed is a nice premise, but nevertheless, it's yet another tournament. Let's see if they will explore the Namekuseijins and Saiyans from Universe 6 at least, that'd contribute for a more positive view.

I like Dragon Ball Super for what it is, but it really and urgently needs to leave the safe zone.

[sintzu]

I like Dragon Ball Super for what it is, but it really and urgently needs to leave the safe zone.

The problem is that safe zone is where the money is coming from so the chances of them changing anything are slim to none.

[Anime Kitten]

Dragon Ball Super should bring exciting stuff, yet, we're getting tournaments after tournaments and the return of characters who shouldn't return, those factors really affect the quality in my point of view and are unacceptable these days.

The Universe Survival saga would be more interesting if Universe 6 didn't happen. A tournament made up with other Universes and that they can be destroyed is a nice premise, but nevertheless, it's yet another tournament.

Didn't the first third of the manga and the original Dragon Ball have a tournament more or less every other arc? This is only Super's second. I'm not really understanding the problem here. And why shouldn't certain characters return? I mean, the show only exists to make money off merchandise anyway.

For example, Trunks' returning was unnecessary unless to make a bridge to Dragon Ball Online, while they didn't do it, the way the saga was handled was cool.

I don't think they acknowledge DB Online, considering it's, well, shut down. If they were to bridge Trunks into something, it'd have been to Xenoverse, but even that seemed very, very unlikely.

[ABED]

Didn't the first third of the manga and the original Dragon Ball have a tournament more or less every other arc? This is only Super's second. I'm not really understanding the problem here. And why shouldn't certain characters return? I mean, the show only exists to make money off merchandise anyway.

Which makes this around the 10th or so tournament thus far in total. It's the cumulative effect. Some characters returning is fine, but Freeza has constantly been retread to the point where it has no meaning any more. It's a shame that such a great villain is reduced to this.

The problem is that safe zone is where the money is coming from so the chances of them changing anything are slim to none.

That's an assumption. There are plenty of cases where not taking chances leads to diminishing marginal returns

[SaiyanGod117]

Bardock was designed by Toriyama, though, if I'm not mistaken.

He wasn't.

As for watching Super, you should watch it if your a Dragon Ball fan, but just prepare to be disappointed regularly. Don't watch it right now though, wait a month so you will have something look forward to.

[sintzu]

Bardock was designed by Toriyama, though, if I'm not mistaken.

He wasn't.

They both designed him.

This is Toei's original design which Toriyama took and turned it into the design we know today.

[SaiyanGod117]

Bardock was designed by Toriyama, though, if I'm not mistaken.

He wasn't.

They both designed him.

This is Toei's original design which Toriyama took and turned it into the design we know today.

He didn't conceptualize him, that's what I was getting at, because I specifically remember Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru was the one that created Bardock and his team.

[Anime Kitten]

Which makes this around the 10th or so tournament thus far in total. It's the cumulative effect. Some characters returning is fine, but Freeza has constantly been retread to the point where it has no meaning any more. It's a shame that such a great villain is reduced to this.

I get that, but I just don't understand why it's a problem to have so many only now, after the entirety of the Z portion had only one (two counting the epilogue, though I'm not sure how much of it was shown), never mind the break in real time.

As for Freeza, it adds to the uniqueness. The kind of ideas that shake things up such as character positions or, as I mentioned earlier, scenarios, always appeals to me. That's why Ginyū-Tagoma was one of my favorite parts of the Golden Freeza arc - because​ it was such a random idea that both actually makes sense and is interesting. Which is, of course, the same idea as Freeza himself.
(Spoilers for the current Super arc)
[spoiler]Also, if you're not counting the Toei-only stuff, hasn't Freeza only been brought ​back twice (assuming what's happening right now is a Toriyama thing)?[/spoiler]

[ABED]

Because it's the cumulative effect. It wasn't a big issue in DB because it was only 4.

As for Freeza, it adds to the uniqueness.

I fail to see how pulling out Freeza yet again adds to the uniqueness. It would seem quite the opposite. He was a great villain, let sleeping dogs lie.

[Metalwario64]

As for Freeza, it adds to the uniqueness.

I fail to see how pulling out Freeza yet again adds to the uniqueness. It would seem quite the opposite. He was a great villain, let sleeping dogs lie.

That is 100% exactly how I feel. Freeza should have been done after Trunks killed him, and he's only been cheapened and rehashed since then, and nothing has added to the character. He's just become "villain of the week" now.

I also agree with what Masaki Sato feels about Super:

I'm not involved in Super, but it does not give me the same feeling as the series that we did.

[Anime Kitten]

I fail to see how pulling out Freeza yet again adds to the uniqueness. It would seem quite the opposite. He was a great villain, let sleeping dogs lie.

It's unique ​because Dragon Ball's villains are most often a one-and-done type deal. Bringing Freeza back more than once is stepping away from what the franchise is used to, which is what I would consider unique by DB's standards.

[sintzu]

There are plenty of cases where not taking chances leads to diminishing marginal returns.

For sure but in DB's case the old concepts like Freeza, Ssjs, Broly, etc. are what's selling so for the time being their sticking with that.

[Basaku]

At least Freeza's current comaback is filtered through a fresh twist. I'm tired of him too but that's because both Toei and Toriyama kept bringing him back in the most unimaginative ways possible. If they done it like Super's about to, I wouldn't complain

[ABED]

It's unique ​because Dragon Ball's villains are most often a one-and-done type deal.

But that one lasts for a long time.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

The only issue I have with Super (besides the first two arcs being retellings) is that their is no real tension with the main cast. We know that all of them will be ok since they all will be attending the 28th tournament. Although the expansion of the god hierarchy and the expansion of the other universes does make it fresh.

[Anime Kitten]

But that one lasts for a long time.

Relatively. Still, I can't say I understand what exactly that has to do with his second return being unique. Even if they brought back Zamasu somehow, it would still be something fresh as it isn't done often in Dragon Ball. Apologies if I'm repeating myself here (I really feel like I am), but I'm not sure I can express this any other way.

[sintzu]

It's unique ​because Dragon Ball's villains are most often a one-and-done type deal. Bringing Freeza back more than once is stepping away from what the franchise is used to, which is what I would consider unique by DB's standards.

Not just the franchise but anime and manga in general. it's becoming like a comic book where the villain just keeps coming back. DB never revolved around Freeza, he was the villain of one arc and when it was done everything moved on to new things. now for some reason they're treating him like the face of DB villains.

I'm not involved in Super, but it does not give me the same feeling as the series that we did.

That's what happens when a series tries to continue after being done for 20 years. Another thing is that back in the day everything was handled by Toriyama while now you've got him, Toyotaru, Toei & Bandai to name a few who have their hands in the pot.