Kienzan use ( bad writing )

[Asura]

If this were any other person they'd be lying on the floor bleeding out to death. The Destructo Disk cuts things, the SBC pierces through things. That's what they're designed to do and they can't do anything else. A ki blast doesn't disintegrate a person every time, but the destructo disk will cut through someone every time. Maybe you can make an argument for the SBC, but the destructo disk is just a no-brainer.

Unless Krillin aims to kill, the destructo disk is fine.

What else would Krillin aim for? The only other things he could aim for would be the arena itself, which he can't cut through.
It's a deadly technique. It's like running around swinging an incredibly sharp chainsaw. Although a destructo disk is probably both sharper AND faster than a chainsaw. Either way, you're going to cut through someone using those two things.

[Basako]

The moment I saw the episode title, I already knew who created it. The fact you used "This is not a Krillin hate topic" as your opening line made me Lol because everyone knows that is all you practically do. Saying you were concerned with it is laughable because anything pro Kuririn is never something you like, never.

However, that particular scene with all our heroes attacks doing literally nothing was certainly odd and didn't feel right at all nor make sense.

First of all I rarely make topics here and they are never about Krillin. You confuse Tenshinhan talk as Krillin hate. Which is why I carefully placed my comments. This is actually defending Krillin and the DB lore. And pointing out how DBS is ruining characters or established sensibility for the sake of visual coolness.

Take the Zamasu arc. They thought it would be cool for Trunks to use spirit bomb but in his sword. No explanation and a great potential arc had a horrible ending.

No, don't try to hide it. It's not just topics. 90 percent of posts you make involving Kuririn are full blown negative and of your infatuation with Tien. You were warned about those said posts as well, you can't just think you can magically forget them. Besides on here, you display it elsewhere as well, but that's a different point altogether. You're not defending Kuririn as you don't like the character at all. Everyone knows you as "that guy". As from a previous time, there is no reason to continue in this either as you'll try to say otherwise and the topic itself will just spiral out of control. If anything, you can send me a PM, as to not derail the thread.

Regardless, that whole scene was odd, not just Kuririn's Kienzan. Piccolo's Makankosappo, Gohan's blasts, Roshi's blast, and even Tien's Solar flare seemed off. As another pointed out, it didn't even seem like they hit the opponents, rather the ground. I'm sure the episode could have removed that little part or at least changed it up to make sense somewhat, possibly a Botamo tech.

This is not fair, if anything, he has been defending Tenshinhan, who has been much more heavily criticized than Krilin lately. There has been a recent topic calling him the weakest link in the very title and there have been more. What's up with the thin skin for Krilin now? And over nothing...

This topic is not against Krilin, its clearly against the writing of him using a technique meant to cut whatever it goes through. Most people agree it wasn't appropiate, the least of the four attacks they used, followed closely by the Makankosappo, which has been pointed out many times too. That wouldn't go against Piccolo either, I don't understand that logic.

[Draconic]

Amidst all the stuff happening in this episode I really forgot about this scene. It was so brief and inbetween other stuff more worth of discussion, but yeah, it was really bad. Everyone's signature attack doing nothing at all, creating one big explosion when one is supposed to cut stuff, one to pierce stuff and one to push back stuff is a poor use of those techniques. Not to mention, like in RoF Gohan is busting out his signature move: generic Ki blasts! Everything about that scene is pretty insulting in every department.

Oh, and it goes against everything they said about this Tournament too. "It's not just about power!" but the one team combo does shit. I'm sure the next episodes will turn out something better in this regard, but damn was it handled like crap in this one.

[Shinda Forever]

Just wait until you see his hidden power. lol

[DainIronfoot]

First of all I rarely make topics here and they are never about Krillin. You confuse Tenshinhan talk as Krillin hate. Which is why I carefully placed my comments. This is actually defending Krillin and the DB lore. And pointing out how DBS is ruining characters or established sensibility for the sake of visual coolness.

Take the Zamasu arc. They thought it would be cool for Trunks to use spirit bomb but in his sword. No explanation and a great potential arc had a horrible ending.

No, don't try to hide it. It's not just topics. 90 percent of posts you make involving Kuririn are full blown negative and of your infatuation with Tien. You were warned about those said posts as well, you can't just think you can magically forget them. Besides on here, you display it elsewhere as well, but that's a different point altogether. You're not defending Kuririn as you don't like the character at all. Everyone knows you as "that guy". As from a previous time, there is no reason to continue in this either as you'll try to say otherwise and the topic itself will just spiral out of control. If anything, you can send me a PM, as to not derail the thread.

Regardless, that whole scene was odd, not just Kuririn's Kienzan. Piccolo's Makankosappo, Gohan's blasts, Roshi's blast, and even Tien's Solar flare seemed off. As another pointed out, it didn't even seem like they hit the opponents, rather the ground. I'm sure the episode could have removed that little part or at least changed it up to make sense somewhat, possibly a Botamo tech.

This is not fair, if anything, he has been defending Tenshinhan, who has been much more heavily criticized than Krilin lately. There has been a recent topic calling him the weakest link in the very title and there has been more. What's up with the thin skin for Krilin now?

This topic is not against Krilin, its clearly against the writing of him using a technique meant to cut whatever it goes through. Most people agree it wasn't appropiate, the least of the four attacks they used, followed closely by the Makankosappo, which has been pointed out many times too. That wouldn't go against Piccolo either, I don't understand that logic.

I sent you a PM instead since like i mentioned in my post, things like this will only derail the others value in this thread.

[FortuneSSJ]

Maybe he used it, and maybe it didn't do anything, because contrary to assumption it's, in fact, not a technique that will cut through anything.

This is BS and a change from the original manga where he was able to cut through Frieza who is several times stronger than him

This is also BS because the same attack didn't do nothing to Perfect Cell. Filler or not, it already happened before.

[Cetra]

Maybe he used it, and maybe it didn't do anything, because contrary to assumption it's, in fact, not a technique that will cut through anything.

This is BS and a change from the original manga where he was able to cut through Frieza who is several times stronger than him

This is also BS because the same attack didn't do nothing to Perfect Cell.

Yes, but fans think they have the magical power to disregard filler as their opinion is worth more than at least an official episode.

[DainIronfoot]

Amidst all the stuff happening in this episode I really forgot about this scene. It was so brief and inbetween other stuff more worth of discussion, but yeah, it was really bad. Everyone's signature attack doing nothing at all, creating one big explosion when one is supposed to cut stuff, one to pierce stuff and one to push back stuff is a poor use of those techniques. Not to mention, like in RoF Gohan is busting out his signature move: generic Ki blasts! Everything about that scene is pretty insulting in every department.

Oh, and it goes against everything they said about this Tournament too. "It's not just about power!" but the one team combo does shit. I'm sure the next episodes will turn out something better in this regard, but damn was it handled like crap in this one.

Yeah, that scene was all kinds of weird. I'm definitely expecting more tactical combos from all the fighters though in other episodes.

Another thing that people seem to forget though is the fact that we knew Kuririn would be using Kienzan's in the ToP since the intro was released lol. His most recent spotlight episode even showcased that he can do some pretty fancy things with it as he chooses. Now those things weren't in this episode...we don't even know what the heck happened to the Kienzan. However, no one should be surprised that he will be using it again in the tournament. The execution for all the z fighter's attacks was not good in this one imo, but hopefully it'll get better as the ToP goes on.

[BWri]

This is not a Krillin hate topic. I was concerned with this before. In Krillins promotional tournament material hes using the Kienzan. In Gohans image training Krillin is seen using the kienzan.

Minor spoilers

In epispde 97 he uses it against a group of enemies. Granted it didnt do anything ( which is bad writing with in itself. ) But to use such a dangerous technique that can kill in a tournament is careless from a character stand point. And the fact the writers are using it because it looks cool is more iresponsible and a spit in the fans and Akira Toriyamas face.

It was careless fanservice. They just had everyone (but Gohan) use their most popular attacks. But Piccolo and Krillin should know better than to unleash killing techniques straight at an opponent.

You are absolutely right OP. And Toei did it because they wanted to reuse the same shots they made for when he used the Kienzan against Basil in Gohan and Goku's imaginary fight, right before they recruited Kuririn.

Pretty much this. They're saving money by reusing animations. That new Tien animation looked pretty baller

[Draconic]

I don't have any problem with the Kienzan being used. It's not necessarily a killing technique if aimed well and is unblockable and if it isn't unblockable it's not like there's no precedent for it, so who cares? But when it does literally nothing but disappear from the screen once fired, like in this episode, well, fuck that!

[TheMikado]

This is BS and a change from the original manga where he was able to cut through Frieza who is several times stronger than him

This is also BS because the same attack didn't do nothing to Perfect Cell.

Yes, but fans think they have the magical power to disregard filler as their opinion is worth more than at least an official episode.

I'm not ignoring that at all, I'm just not referencing it because this forum itself frowns upon using filler as evidence but since you brought it up the specific context was that Krillin was using his more powerful and dangerous techniques, a technique known to have sliced clean through Frieza. The narrative and intent, correct or not was to show how enormous the gap was between Krillin and the rest and Cell such that there was literal NOTHING they could have done against him. And it worked, it heightened the tension, and Krillin NEVER attacked Cell again on his own. Because it would have been completely ineffective.

In Super by contrast he throws it and we have no idea where it went, if it landed, it was basically tossed away. But, going by filler, if the enemies they currently are facing are strong enough to tank that technique, that means the gap between MUST be greater than the gap between Krillin in Frieza in order to follow the same narrative rules you just pointed out, AND as such Krillin shouldn't be able to fight those same characters AT ALL due to that gap in power.... but he will next week because whoever wrote it assumed that was Krillins only signature move and didn't seem to realize the context or properties of it or why it's special and has the group tank it like any other ordinary ki blast. If you're going to go through the trouble of getting weaker fighters due to their special inherit abilities, at least read up on why those abilities your were touting as being the reason they were selected in the first place are special. Don't grab a character just because and then misuse them and their special techniques. Especially a character and technique with as much history as Krillins.

[Simere]

I didn't know the Makankosappo was supposed to be a kill anything technique too. He was going to use that on Frost in the U6-U7 tournament, and killing wasn't allowed there.

[Akyon]

I didn't know the Makankosappo was supposed to be a kill anything technique too. He was going to use that on Frost in the U6-U7 tournament, and killing wasn't allowed there.

I mean Piccolo did design it originally specifically to kill Goku. The way the beam is designed it will pierce and bore through your body like a drill. I guess you could argue he was only planning to...rip Frost's leg off with it?

[Draconic]

I didn't know the Makankosappo was supposed to be a kill anything technique too. He was going to use that on Frost in the U6-U7 tournament, and killing wasn't allowed there.

I mean Piccolo did design it originally specifically to kill Goku. The way the beam is designed it will pierce and bore through your body like a drill. I guess you could argue he was only planning to...rip Frost's leg off with it?

Frost would survive even with his head cut off. Frieza was living in tons of pieces. It's how their race is. A hole in one of those guys is at best going to incapacitate them and at worst just slow them down.

[TheMikado]

I didn't know the Makankosappo was supposed to be a kill anything technique too. He was going to use that on Frost in the U6-U7 tournament, and killing wasn't allowed there.

I mean Piccolo did design it originally specifically to kill Goku. The way the beam is designed it will pierce and bore through your body like a drill. I guess you could argue he was only planning to...rip Frost's leg off with it?

Frost would survive even with his head cut off. Frieza was living in tons of pieces. It's how their race is. A hole in one of those guys is at best going to incapacitate them and at worst just slow them down.

I think Frost said it could have killed him if it hit. Regardless of whether it's designed to kill or not it's a very power technique and not something anyone should just be arbitrarily tanking even when superior to Picoolo, let alone being scrub tier. And definitely not something Piccolo should be throwing out just because.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

I didn't know the Makankosappo was supposed to be a kill anything technique too. He was going to use that on Frost in the U6-U7 tournament, and killing wasn't allowed there.

That was bad writing too.

[TKA]

A super technique being proven to not be so super isn't bad writing. That's the hallmark of Shonen series.

People have had this fanon that the Kienzan can cut through anything, even though that's at odds with how the series works. The Kienzan isn't magic: it's Ki. Against a suitably stronger ki, it should amount to nothing. That's how all ki moves work in this series.

It's not fanon. It's the facts established in the manga. The technique was never challenged and it successfully cut much stronger opponents.

You might think it has a ceiling - which is reasonable - but it was never shown. It also wasn't a fluke because it was consistently shown to work against stronger opponents. You're using your own inflexible logic to contradict something that is bullet proof.

That logic doesn't work. The minute you apply to something else is the minute you see how shaky it is.

Katchin has never been damaged in this series, so why don't characters wear katchin armor? Surely that would make them invincible.

I could go on listing other absurdities like that, but I think my point has been demonstrated.

[snpaa]

A super technique being proven to not be so super isn't bad writing. That's the hallmark of Shonen series.

People have had this fanon that the Kienzan can cut through anything, even though that's at odds with how the series works. The Kienzan isn't magic: it's Ki. Against a suitably stronger ki, it should amount to nothing. That's how all ki moves work in this series.

It's not fanon. It's the facts established in the manga. The technique was never challenged and it successfully cut much stronger opponents.

You might think it has a ceiling - which is reasonable - but it was never shown. It also wasn't a fluke because it was consistently shown to work against stronger opponents. You're using your own inflexible logic to contradict something that is bullet proof.

That logic doesn't work. The minute you apply to something else is the minute you see how shaky it is.

Katchin has never been damaged in this series, so why don't characters wear katchin armor? Surely that would make them invincible.

I could go on listing other absurdities like that, but I think my point has been demonstrated.

Your example does not hold any weight because heavy armor does not make you invincible and would be entirely inappropriate for hand to hand fighting since you would still feel the kinetic force behind the blows. It would help you against slashing and piercing attacks but that's about it, and we don't know how dense the alloy is to make the armor , but if it's the strongest metal in the world I would bet dollars to donuts it would end up slowing you down.

Vegeta's lightweight elastic armor is more appropriate for battle because it's designed to protect you from projectiles weapons and allows him to keep his speed. speaking of that why on earth was he allowed to wear that for the tournament does that not count as cheating?

[JulianStyles]

I sent you a PM instead since like i mentioned in my post, things like this will only derail the others value in this thread.

Youre only derailing the value of yourself. I have no idea who you are. But I see that some how I made such an impression that you come here looking to incite conflict instead of talking about the subject. I'm very pro Tien but I've never made negative topics on Krillin. And anything I say is not a hate vendetta. Its based on facts. If I say Krillins Toei profile says he has a cowardly way about him. Thats not hate. That's using facts to make my point. Only topics I've made or subjects I've been involved in is Tenshinhans alien ancestry, Akira stating hes not human, Tiens voice actor saying hes not human and analyzing a statement for Krillin that is very vague. I had a topic locked because I brought up the question and fact that 17 and 18 are Earthlings, and have been referred to as modified humans. So how can Krillin be the strongest Earthling? Those are examples of what I've discussed. This is exactly why there is such hate between both sides. Because look how defensive and hateful you got in a topic that was not putting down the character. SMH

[LightBing]

That logic doesn't work. The minute you apply to something else is the minute you see how shaky it is.

Katchin has never been damaged in this series, so why don't characters wear katchin armor? Surely that would make them invincible.

I could go on listing other absurdities like that, but I think my point has been demonstrated.

Except I'm not applying logic. I'm just stating what's in the manga, you're the one providing conjecture. The Katchin example is almost the same thing, except it's easier to scrutinize since it has less examples in the manga and we don't know other characteristics , which would be relevant to turn it into armour.

Even with it all that, I can't prove Katchin can be damaged like you can't prove the Kienzan has limits. It's fine to imagine they have limits and like I said before if it's proven to me that Mr.Toriyama wrote the technique fail, it's perfectly acceptable.
Toei has made enough mistakes for me to believe this development is from them and therefore ignorable.

What is truly absurd is ignoring tangible proof and call everything else than one's person idea, fanon.