The False Hype of ToP

[precita]

I think it's also obvious the tournament stage is far bigger than it actually appears in most episodes. Characters are likely fighting on the entire opposite ends or in the middle when all these other fights are going on. I kind of wish Toei would confirm some sense of scale in the magazine scans or promos at least.

[KingKaash]

Funny how I brought up this exact argument right before the ToP and people doubted me. Now all the boobirds are out saying what I suspected could occur with this ToP.

Overall though I think the ToP has been pretty good

The tournament started as if many other characters were actually going to get interesting fights when we see Basil and others going all out, then slowly but surely it came back to just doing 1v1 and 2v2 fights between main characters or between main characters knocking out weaklings. I'm just saying there's really no point in making it a battle royale if only 3 or 4 of the episodes are actually like an open arena battle royale, and if only 5-6 characters are going to be relevant at all it would have been better in a normal tournament style.

To me the way they've made these latest episodes it almost seems like they're regretting making it a battle royale because that aspect is almost entirely gone by now. I'm not saying the episodes aren't good either, I'm just saying it's not really what a battle royale would play out like and it's not taking advantage of making unique characters and moves (enough) that would make a battle royale interesting. Fine they want to rush to the big fights, but then making it a battle royale in the first place was pointless. It's way too centered around U7 (No, I don't care if that's the main casts' universe, it's a battle royale with 80 fighters), people are getting knocked out way too easily, and people are not using teamwork or strategy for the most part but just using raw power to win.

Has the ToP met the expectations of a Battle Royale style? No they haven't. I agree with you there. But I preferred 1v1 over Battle Royale anyway so maybe that's why I don't feel as bad. The ToP Battle Royal had tons of potential for teamwork concepts to play out nicely. But the writers didn't use this golden chance.

As for characters getting eliminated quickly, that was what I had mentioned earlier. Universe 7 has five God-tier fighters so of course they were going to wipe the floor with a lot of other Universes. I had a feeling things would be lopsided in favor of Universe 7

[TekTheNinja]

This isn't false hype, it's just that a lot of people have unreasonable expectations for this tournament. A lot of people also made up fanfiction in their minds as to how they wanted the tournament to go, and then when the eps air and something different happens they act all bothered.

So wanting the characters to have relevancy and the concepts introduced to actually be used and matter is now unreasonable? In that case I'm fairly certain you have ridiculously LOW expectations.

Teamwork & strategy have been vital as we seen after the awful display of team work in ep 97-98 the show started doing well with these since 99 which was a high point of the saga & ep 102-104 show strategy with #17 & hit & currently the pride trooper are competent people with good teamwork,this guy alone embodied teamwork perfectly

Compare him to kahseral,the pride troopers & u9,you will noticed something,he was formidable, the heroes didn't hold back against him & he is not a buffoon

I'm mixed with the Top if you look at my post but saying there no teamwork is blasphemous

Yes. This guy did use teamwork and strategy, but it was basically disregarded as useless in the end because Goku just powered through his hamon overdrive-esque move and took no damage, then Hit knocked him out like it was nothing. What good did that strategy do him, eh?

[The gr]

Yes. This guy did use teamwork and strategy, but it was basically disregarded as useless in the end because Goku just powered through his hamon overdrive-esque move and took no damage, then Hit knocked him out like it was nothing. What good did that strategy do him, eh?

Hit need to use The shockwave but it was super lame that Goku Pull a lerroy jenkings,is like The saiyans ruin teamwork but he at least saved dyspo twice

[Duo]

The title of this thread is inherently bothersome because the tournament has barely even started, especially considering the fact that the last ten minutes will take three times as many episodes as the minute/episode ratio preceding it. As much as I want the production of the show to maintain some standards, I think the fandom needs to do the same. Hold yourself a bit more accountable for firing off opinions and comments held without a speck of sufficient context.

AKA Grow some fucking patience.

[TekTheNinja]

The title of this thread is inherently bothersome because the tournament has barely even started, especially considering the fact that the last ten minutes will take three times as many episodes as the minute/episode ratio preceding it. As much as I want the production of the show to maintain some standards, I think the fandom needs to do the same. Hold yourself a bit more accountable for firing off opinions and comments held without a speck of sufficient context.

AKA Grow some fucking patience.

Krillin got hyped in the episodes before the tournament and he's already out. Teamwork and strategy are currently being treated as basically pointless, and anything involving Buu is certainly false-hype, so I don't see the problem here.

[precita]

The strategy used is fantastic. Goku overpowering everyone is simply because he's so much stronger than everyone else, but all the other characters have to use skills and tactics to win. The only reason you don't see Jiren, Toppo, Freeza doing this is because they're not unleashing their power on fodder.

[Zagacious]

The strategy used is fantastic. Goku overpowering everyone is simply because he's so much stronger than everyone else, but all the other characters have to use skills and tactics to win. The only reason you don't see Jiren, Toppo, Freeza doing this is because they're not unleashing their power on fodder.

Most of the characters using skills and tactics are the ones getting KO'ed immediately after making their teamwork not matter in the end, that is the main point of saying that teamwork was hyped up in the recruitment arc and ultimately isn't mattering for a majority of fights, as I was saying earlier most of it has no consequence.

It would be more interesting if they were powerful enough for their teamwork and strategies to at least give them a chance, but for the most part they're just getting KO'ed anyways. The Trio De Dangers is probably some of the best display of teamwork we have so far, and they were immediately gone because the writing put them against Goku and Vegeta and there's no way they're going to eliminate one of them already. Then we have the weaker pride troopers showing teamwork against Caulifla and Kale, except not really because Toppo nor Dyspo interfere to prevent 4 of their own members from getting eliminated in a matchup they obviously can't win. Next came the flower girls from U2 who have some interesting abilities and are helping each other out, but it doesn't matter in the end because 17 is now way stronger than any of them. Finally, Dyspo and Kunshi, Kunshi does save Dyspo, but instead of putting them both against Hit where they might have at least a small chance, Goku steps in and makes it just another faceroll and the two of them are exhausted after just a few blows from Goku and Hit.

The only time teamwork has actually affected the tournament in any way is Krillin saving 18, Hit saving Caulifla, and Gohan teaming up with the weaker U7 makes them less of a target. I suppose you can count Dyspo being saved by Kunshi, but if Dyspo is that exhausted from just a couple blows from Hit then he's probably not going to matter much later anyways. These are examples of good teamwork, but it's really not very significant since the end of the tournament is not likely going to rely on any of the characters that were saved except maybe Caulifla but even that's a stretch.

[namekiansaiyan]

The strategy used is fantastic. Goku overpowering everyone is simply because he's so much stronger than everyone else, but all the other characters have to use skills and tactics to win. The only reason you don't see Jiren, Toppo, Freeza doing this is because they're not unleashing their power on fodder.

Most of the characters using skills and tactics are the ones getting KO'ed immediately after making their teamwork not matter in the end, that is the main point of saying that teamwork was hyped up in the recruitment arc and ultimately isn't mattering for a majority of fights, as I was saying earlier most of it has no consequence.

It would be more interesting if they were powerful enough for their teamwork and strategies to at least give them a chance, but for the most part they're just getting KO'ed anyways. The Trio De Dangers is probably some of the best display of teamwork we have so far, and they were immediately gone because the writing put them against Goku and Vegeta and there's no way they're going to eliminate one of them already. Then we have the weaker pride troopers showing teamwork against Caulifla and Kale, except not really because Toppo nor Dyspo interfere to prevent 4 of their own members from getting eliminated in a matchup they obviously can't win. Next came the flower girls from U2 who have some interesting abilities and are helping each other out, but it doesn't matter in the end because 17 is now way stronger than any of them. Finally, Dyspo and Kunshi, Kunshi does save Dyspo, but instead of putting them both against Hit where they might have at least a small chance, Goku steps in and makes it just another faceroll and the two of them are exhausted after just a few blows from Goku and Hit.

The only time teamwork has actually affected the tournament in any way is Krillin saving 18, Hit saving Caulifla, and Gohan teaming up with the weaker U7 makes them less of a target.

It is Jiren's fault why 5 of the troopers went out due to him not knocking out Kale properly.

I don't think any of team Universe 7 need protecting and if they get into trouble then someone can quickly join in like Goku just did with Hit.

[Zagacious]

The strategy used is fantastic. Goku overpowering everyone is simply because he's so much stronger than everyone else, but all the other characters have to use skills and tactics to win. The only reason you don't see Jiren, Toppo, Freeza doing this is because they're not unleashing their power on fodder.

Most of the characters using skills and tactics are the ones getting KO'ed immediately after making their teamwork not matter in the end, that is the main point of saying that teamwork was hyped up in the recruitment arc and ultimately isn't mattering for a majority of fights, as I was saying earlier most of it has no consequence.

It would be more interesting if they were powerful enough for their teamwork and strategies to at least give them a chance, but for the most part they're just getting KO'ed anyways. The Trio De Dangers is probably some of the best display of teamwork we have so far, and they were immediately gone because the writing put them against Goku and Vegeta and there's no way they're going to eliminate one of them already. Then we have the weaker pride troopers showing teamwork against Caulifla and Kale, except not really because Toppo nor Dyspo interfere to prevent 4 of their own members from getting eliminated in a matchup they obviously can't win. Next came the flower girls from U2 who have some interesting abilities and are helping each other out, but it doesn't matter in the end because 17 is now way stronger than any of them. Finally, Dyspo and Kunshi, Kunshi does save Dyspo, but instead of putting them both against Hit where they might have at least a small chance, Goku steps in and makes it just another faceroll and the two of them are exhausted after just a few blows from Goku and Hit.

The only time teamwork has actually affected the tournament in any way is Krillin saving 18, Hit saving Caulifla, and Gohan teaming up with the weaker U7 makes them less of a target.

It is Jiren's fault why 5 of the troopers went out due to him not knocking out Kale properly.

I don't think any of team Universe 7 need protecting and if they get into trouble then someone can quickly join in like Goku just did with Hit.

Well either way the point is the same, none of the pride troopers came to interfere, and every other time they've been shown in the tournament they were just standing around, so there's no reason for them not to interfere. If 2 universes are already gone and they're still not taking it seriously then that's on them. I was pretty shocked when 2 of the last 4 remaining pride troopers were getting easily defeated and not even Toppo steps in. It looks like he may step in next episode, but we all know how those previews go

[sintzu]

This arc is a great example of how to completely ruin a great idea.

The main issue of the arc is the amount of characters. The concept of the universes is one that's had fans talking for years and they knew it but instead of taking their time to build up each universe, they decided to introduce not 1, not 2 but 6 whole universes at the same time. This could've worked if each universe had a very small number of characters but no, each one had to get 10 characters which has lead to only u11 & 9 getting some development while everything was put on the side. On top of all that, they also need to spend time justifying Freeza's return.

That's from a writing point of view, the production has also suffered cause instead of having normal 1 on 1 fights, they decided to have an entire battle royal where everyone is fighting at the same time and there's always things going on in the background. Super's schedual simply doesn't allow that kind of thing to be done let alone done well.

If there's anything we can learn from this is that trying to make the biggest thing doesn't mean it'll be the best thing, this is one of those things that needs a lot of development and build up and they've completely faild at doing that. They wanted a hype marketing machine and sacrifised quality for it. This could've been the arc to end all DB arcs but as you'd expect from a merchandise commercial, it was simply too much to expect.

Now, can this arc be saved ? Yes but not in the anime, in the manga. Toyotarou is a very talanted artist and writer so there's no way he hasn't noticed the issues with the anime. If it's up to him, I think he'll change it from a battle royal to a 1 on 1 tournament and instead of forcing each universe to have 10 fighters he'll have each one have a different number, making it easy to develop the characters.

This isn't false hype, it's just that a lot of people have unreasonable expectations for this tournament.

It seems like expecting anything out of Super is too much nowadays. we can't expect good fights, we can't expect consistancy, we can't expect good wiritng, we can't expect good art or animation, etc. What isn't too much for Super to deliver and live up to ?

Why does everything else have to live up to certain standards while Super gets a free pass on everything ?

They have 80 new fighters (not just characters) which they can make bank on and star in future video games.

This is probably why they did it. None of them are developed or have anything unique so they can just give them stock attacks.

Why take a risk and try to make another character popular ?

You mean why take a risk and write good characters ? This is exactly what's wrong with Super, why take a risk when the name already sells, why push the brand forward and challenge ourselves when we can just make money doing the bare minimum ?

If risks weren't taken, we wouldn't have gotten DB or any of the other popular things we know to day.

The title of this thread is inherently bothersome because the tournament has barely even started.

Grow some fucking patience.

We're almost 10 episodes in. It'll end in another 10 or so which means we're half way through.

I've been reading this since Super started and I'm still waiting for its problems to be solved. I guess I can wait another 100 but even then, this respond will probably still come up when the same problems are questioned.

[pacz360]

This arc is a great example of how to completely ruin a great idea.

The main issue of the arc is the amount of characters. The concept of the universes is one that's had fans talking for years and they knew it but instead of taking their time to build up each universe, they decided to introduce not 1, not 2 but 6 whole universes at the same time. This could've worked if each universe had a very small number of characters but no, each one had to get 10 characters which has lead to only u11 & 9 getting some development while everything was put on the side. On top of all that, they also need to spend time justifying Freeza's return.

That's from a writing point of view, the production has also suffered cause instead of having normal 1 on 1 fights, they decided to have an entire battle royal where everyone is fighting at the same time and there's always things going on in the background. Super's schedual simply doesn't allow that kind of thing to be done let alone done well.

If there's anything we can learn from this is that trying to make the biggest thing doesn't mean it'll be the best thing, this is one of those things that needs a lot of development and build up and they've completely faild at doing that. They wanted a hype marketing machine and sacrifised quality for it. This could've been the arc to end all DB arcs but as you'd expect from a merchandise commercial, it was simply too much to expect.

Now, can this arc be saved ? Yes but not in the anime, in the manga. Toyotarou is a very talanted artist and writer so there's no way he hasn't noticed the issues with the anime. If it's up to him, I think he'll change it from a battle royal to a 1 on 1 tournament and instead of forcing each universe to have 10 fighters he'll have each one have a different number, making it easy to develop the characters.

This isn't false hype, it's just that a lot of people have unreasonable expectations for this tournament.

It seems like expecting anything out of Super is too much nowadays. we can't expect good fights, we can't expect consistancy, we can't expect good wiritng, we can't expect good art or animation, etc. What isn't too much for Super to deliver and live up to ?

Why does everything else have to live up to certain standards while Super gets a free pass on everything ?

They have 80 new fighters (not just characters) which they can make bank on and star in future video games.

This is probably why they did it. None of them are developed or have anything unique so they can just give them stock attacks.

Why take a risk and try to make another character popular ?

You mean why take a risk and write good characters ? This is exactly what's wrong with Super, why take a risk when the name already sells, why push the brand forward and challenge ourselves when we can just make money doing the bare minimum ?

If risks weren't taken, we wouldn't have gotten DB or any of the other popular things we know to day.

The title of this thread is inherently bothersome because the tournament has barely even started.

Grow some fucking patience.

We're almost 10 episodes in. It'll end in another 10 or so which means we're half way through.

I've been reading this since Super started and I'm still waiting for its problems to be solved. I guess I can wait another 100 but even then, this respond will probably still come up when the same problems are questioned.

Stop acting toyo is great writer he isn't he's only mediocre writer at best
Also he's not going to change the format to a regular tournament it's still going to be an 80 man battle royal

[PsionicWarrior]

I still have hope for this arc which has some good moments, but insofar I can say I am pretty disappointed by a number of things. On top of my head:

- Broly girl was a miss, her transformation in tournament should have been her first time (at least on screen) imo, could have been a great moment but was damaged by earlier episodes.
- There is good fighting scenes but it lacks epicness, some episodes from the 90's had more going on. Or in Zamasu arc. Tension is rather poorly built, there is no moment where I can doubt obvious outcome.
- Universe 11 was clearly oversold, after 5 episodes almost everyone is out, U6 and 7 seem to be the ones clobbering all others, what the hell.

Possibly others but these would be biggest, inconsistencies aside lol

I find the run mediocre at this point but things can still get interesting so I keep watching (and pray for Roshi's EP to be good, this should be Roshi's fans moment).

[sintzu]

Stop acting toyo is great writer he isn't he's only mediocre writer at best.

Also he's not going to change the format to a regular tournament, it's still going to be an 80 man battle royal.

You don't need to be a great or even good writer to recognize these massive flaws.

We'll see. He's changed a lot in the past and even at the start of this arc so I expect that to continue into the tournament.

[pacz360]

Stop acting toyo is great writer he isn't he's only mediocre writer at best.

Also he's not going to change the format to a regular tournament, it's still going to be an 80 man battle royal.

You don't need to be a great or even good writer to recognize these massive flaws.

We'll see. He's changed a lot in the past and even at the start of this arc so I expect that to continue into the tournament.

Of course there flaws in the show but doesn't mean he's better by a massive degree he's pretty much in the same boat as them
He change shit here and there but stuff like usual we be followed like the anime

[sintzu]

He's pretty much in the same boat as them.

He change shit here and there but stuff like usual we be followed like the anime.

It's night and day between them, while he tries to keep power levels, writing and fights consistant, Toei's is just a big mess with the least amount of care put into them.

Trunks' arc was completely different and the current one starts with Vegeta fighting Beerus, how are they in any way the same ?

[Boo Machine]

Trunks' arc was completely different and the current one starts with Vegeta fighting Beerus, how are they in any way the same ?

Trunks arc had different ways of playing out but in both the main points were still the same. They still go the Future, Lose, Trunks fights to give them a chance to go back, the Mafuba, The fusion, Goku still has a moment where he is fighting Merged Zamasu on his own, Trunks slices Zamasu in half, Zeno destroys the future.

Toyo throwing a fight in there at the start is not an indication that he is going to change the ENTIRE format of the arc. Besides the Vegeta fight pretty much everything else from the anime happens in the manga's latest chapter. Toyo is no rebel, he just does his own thing while still following whatever outline Toriyama gives him.

[Duo]

We're almost 10 episodes in. It'll end in another 10 or so which means we're half way through.

I do not know how you arrived at that conclusion, but it is almost definitely not true. Every character on the U7 team is going to probably have an episode unto themselves just for getting knocked out, let alone how much emphasis a character like Gohan or Vegeta would get. We haven't even seen two members on the universe 6 team yet. The only way there's just ten episodes left is if some plot device interrupts the tournament with 20 minutes remaining.

The real meat of the tournament is going to take place in the last ten minutes, most likely. It's really silly to try to pass any significant judgement about the entire arc at this point.

[sintzu]

I do not know how you arrived at that conclusion.

They announced it's ending in Novemebr and when you take inot account the breaks we'll get (I think 2), that doesn't leave much time left.

It's really silly to try to pass any significant judgement about the entire arc at this point.

When you're half way or close to that much through an arc, you've pretty much seen what it has to offer. I highly doubt there's going to be a huge jump in quality at this point.

[namekiansaiyan]

I do not know how you arrived at that conclusion.

They announced it's ending in Novemebr and when you take inot account the breaks we'll get (I think 2), that doesn't leave much time left.

It's really silly to try to pass any significant judgement about the entire arc at this point.

When you're half way or close to that much through an arc, you've pretty much seen what it has to offer. I highly doubt there's going to be a huge jump in quality at this point.

It is not confirmed to be ending in November.