Is Super fighting an uphill battle? (Not a hate thread)

[PsionicWarrior]

They need do only one thing..

Fix the powerscaling.

Seriously it couldn’t be THAT hard, now can it?

Hahaha doubt that will happen mate lol
What they COULD improve though are the other aspects almost everyone in this thread besides Amir have brought up like lack of tensions and focus on characters we don't know two turds about lol

Personally I am very disappointed in the TOP arc in general BUT it also gave us some episodes that enters directly into the franchise's history, like Roshi's episodes and Ultra Instinct, so only for that I'm glad it exists and continues to air.

I really wish they could produce these kinds of episodes more often than once every 20 or so cheers lol

[Asura]

The character models.

Not even the animation, but the character models.

If Super were somehow allowed to regularly do what Takahashi did and utilize character designs that look closer to Z's, I think it would go a long way to getting people excited.

This.

Just look at how much the fanbase exploded after 114. I've never seen so many people compliment the art in the show, not even for the special. Hell, I've never seen so many people compliment the art out of the entire franchise. It was just that good.

Unfortunately the likelihood of this happening is probably zero.

[Torturephile]

Just the fact that it exists and that it is a sequel to a big name franchise that is popular worldwide should be already an uphill battle. Had the show been produced more efficiently, started from the Champa saga, and had a larger variety of ideas and executed them better, it may have had a better reception. With the way that it is, it appears to be a mixed bag among people given its different aspects like art or storytelling, and what each fan does or watches that may affect their opinion on it. Even I don't take a solid stance on it since the product itself has varying levels of quality, and I (and others) don't always retain the same views on anything permanently.

I myself told others that haven't seen it about its flaws and pros, and more or less what to expect. None of them have bothered to watch it yet.

[precita]

The problem is Super should have only had 26 episode seasons. Having new episodes every week for a year stretches them thin.

If they had 26 episodes a year, each arc would be tighter written and more concise. The animation would be far greater, and there would be less padding. They'd basically have more time to plan everything out.

[Basaku]

Other than those 3 problems I think the rest is great.

This arc lives up to Z quality imo, it's on that level now.

Those 3 problems have completely ruined it for me. Yeah there are some good things like Roshi's episode but those problems completely overshadow what little good that's here.

I'm rewatching Z (Kai) now and it's not even close. I just finished the Saiyan arc and it puts this and everything else Super has to offer to shame. Even at its best, it still has nothing on the Saiyan arc. The writing, production, fighting, character interactions, teamwork, etc are on a whole other level. There's more teamwork in the saiyan arc then there is in a tournament that's supposed to revolve around it.

Another thing this arc lacks is tension which is a faaaaaar cry from the sense of these characters trying to survive against the Saiyans and later against Freeza. There was more emotions going on when Yamcha, Chaiotzu & Piccolo died over ENTIRE UNIVERSES combined. In Super's current arc, No one gives a Radtiz about billions of beings getting killed and their own survival on the line.

All true. No matter what was the target audience, what kind of a show DB/DBZ was and how little preparation & planning Toriyama actually did, he still was able to execute the plot, action, drama, suspense, character relationships etc extremly well. Comedy/action writing is not easy just because it's for kids/masses/popcorn audience. It's just as hard to write and execute as serious drama. Toriyama did it very well particularly around Piccolo/Saiyan/Freeza/Cell sagas and that's why DB became the phenomenon it is today. For all the good things Super does, all the stuff it does better than GT and all the improvements made since first bunch of episodes/2 movies, it's still nowhere near the execution level of DB/DBZ at its peak.

[TBMx]

Too much Goku in an 80 person tournament. It's why GT became one dimensional and formulaic. Too much Goku. He's not interesting.

[Olympian]

That`s my biggest gripe with the story mode.

Yeah, he`s the absolute main and the face but the rest aren`t doing much at all, so what`s the point.

[Pannaliciour]

So what did people really expect story-wise in a freaking Tournament of POWER?? A oscar telling story loll. Its survival of the fittest! You people are to distract by tv ratings. And on top of that this arc is just at the beginning. Relax.

I personal enjoy this. We get every episode a fight. And I have witness the best episodes (109 & 110) in history of dragon ball (Z).

[GodVegetto91]

Another bad thing of Super is it’s bad tendency to force tension They literally go out of their way to create scenarios where SSJ Blue Goku is struggling against characters he should even be able to oneshot in Base. All for the sake of “drama”. That’s the reason for the bad powerscaling in Super. A rational person chooses consistency over “tension” anyday! If they want to create tension and drama so bad, 1 or 2 characters at the most per arc is more than enough. Beerus, Golden Freeza, Zamasu and Black, and now Jiren. Just introduce 1 really strong character each arc and there’s tension enough! But please don’t let that interfere with the writing quality and consistency of this show. Especially not to the point where SSJ Blue Goku is struggling against characters he should be able to blow away just by sneezing!

[Olympian]

So what did people really expect story-wise in a freaking Tournament of POWER?? A oscar telling story loll. Its survival of the fittest! You people are to distract by tv ratings. And on top of that this arc is just at the beginning. Relax.

I personal enjoy this. We get every episode a fight. And I have witness the best episodes (109 & 110) in history of dragon ball (Z).

Ratings are a bio product and Super is popular anyhow.

We`re talking about characterization and forced plot tension.

[MajinMan]

Plot: the main events of a play, novel, movie, or similar work, devised and presented by the writer as an interrelated sequence.

Super has a plot, whether you like it or not. Saying that it doesn't makes absolutely no sense. Plots don't need to be complex.

[sintzu]

This arc is just at the beginning. Relax.

It's been going on since episode 77, we're 40 episodes in so that's as far away from the beginning as you can get.

[snpaa]

To the answer the title of this thread, NO, super is not fighting an uphill battle it's actually just plateauing off of the back of dragonball and dragonball z , it's a financial success strictly because of the brand recognition ,some people such myself only watch it because it is dragon ball not because it's worth watching.
Now in terms of quality Yes because it's absolutely terrible, I can predict that in 2 to 3 years after super has ended , this series won't be looked at fondly in fact it will be openly mocked and trashed for what it was , " A cash grab" that's just meant to sell merchandise to the point where the super fans will feel too intimidated to go against the grain and defend the show just like Gt.

Now if they need to get out of a situation they just pop a new form or technique and that's it. No build up to the technique or foreshadowing. Theyust can.

Nothing like that happened in this arc so far, you just made this up. Give an example otherwise it's invalid.

I haven't read the rest of this thread so please excuse me if this has already been addressed but didn't kale literally get a new form against the pride troopers ? Also kefla being formed was unexpected as well since it should of been illegal .

[TheZFighter]

I would've liked to see an arc before the Saiyan arc that focuses on them fighting some threat.

Urgh this.

[wolflonnie]

I don't think Super is nearly that bad. In fact, it's pretty good. People just like to bitch and can't wrap their head around small but inevitable problems. This is so annoying.
That said, my issues with the current arc are:

- As someone said, lack of tension, even if the stakes couldn't be higher. Absolutely agreed. Then again, if the tournament was only tense in mood, I dunno.
Perhaps Toei could have find a better compromise between tension and fun.

- Didn't work enough to make me care about Kale & Caulifla, and both of them (plus Kafla) got too much screentime. But it's not THAT big a issue.
I just wish they explained better why Kale & Caulifla have such a close relationship, would have made them more interesting to view and to root for. Perhaps it'll happen in the manga, I dunno.

- If there's something coming after the tournament, they could have dropped more hints or interesting conversations foreshadowing it.
A tournament without any plot behind it could last only for so long because, at the end of the day, it's just battles.

- Powerlevels but for me it's a very minor issue. You can still see and identify who's stronger and who's weaker. That's alright.

[Amir]

To the answer the title of this thread, NO, super is not fighting an uphill battle it's actually just plateauing off of the back of dragonball and dragonball z , it's a financial success strictly because of the brand recognition ,some people such myself only watch it because it is dragon ball not because it's worth watching.
Now in terms of quality Yes because it's absolutely terrible, I can predict that in 2 to 3 years after super has ended , this series won't be looked at fondly in fact it will be openly mocked and trashed for what it was , " A cash grab" that's just meant to sell merchandise to the point where the super fans will feel too intimidated to go against the grain and defend the show just like Gt.

Now if they need to get out of a situation they just pop a new form or technique and that's it. No build up to the technique or foreshadowing. Theyust can.

Nothing like that happened in this arc so far, you just made this up. Give an example otherwise it's invalid.

I haven't read the rest of this thread so please excuse me if this has already been addressed but didn't kale literally get a new form against the pride troopers ? Also kefla being formed was unexpected as well since it should of been illegal .

She already turned berserker a few times, now she finally transformed into a weaker SSJ form but more controlled when it was often talked about how she wasn't able to control her power every time she went berserker. It wasn't flawed at all.

At the start of the episode Caulifla said if she combines and Kale combined their strength they would be the strongest, that is foreshadowing.

Also not everything even needs to be foreshadowed as long as it makes sense and has proper explanation.
Unlike Trunks' SSJ Rage form or Caulifla's BS transformations.

[Pannaliciour]

This arc is just at the beginning. Relax.

It's been going on since episode 77, we're 40 episodes in so that's as far away from the beginning as you can get.

I ment warming up. Thats what Toei said. They also said it will end in march. So calm down. Dont get me wrong, I respect your opion and the freedom to start this thread but it will be more rational if you wait when the arc is over.

[sintzu]

it will be more rational if you wait when the arc is over.

It's not going to change that much. The tournament has been the same since it started so what we have is what we'll get.

[Lord Beerus]

Another bad thing of Super is it’s bad tendency to force tension They literally go out of their way to create scenarios where SSJ Blue Goku is struggling against characters he should even be able to oneshot in Base. All for the sake of “drama”. That’s the reason for the bad powerscaling in Super. A rational person chooses consistency over “tension” anyday! If they want to create tension and drama so bad, 1 or 2 characters at the most per arc is more than enough. Beerus, Golden Freeza, Zamasu and Black, and now Jiren. Just introduce 1 really strong character each arc and there’s tension enough! But please don’t let that interfere with the writing quality and consistency of this show. Especially not to the point where SSJ Blue Goku is struggling against characters he should be able to blow away just by sneezing!

Who has SSJB Goku actually struggled against that he supposedly defeat in his base form?

[pacz360]

Another bad thing of Super is it’s bad tendency to force tension They literally go out of their way to create scenarios where SSJ Blue Goku is struggling against characters he should even be able to oneshot in Base. All for the sake of “drama”. That’s the reason for the bad powerscaling in Super. A rational person chooses consistency over “tension” anyday! If they want to create tension and drama so bad, 1 or 2 characters at the most per arc is more than enough. Beerus, Golden Freeza, Zamasu and Black, and now Jiren. Just introduce 1 really strong character each arc and there’s tension enough! But please don’t let that interfere with the writing quality and consistency of this show. Especially not to the point where SSJ Blue Goku is struggling against characters he should be able to blow away just by sneezing!

Who has SSJB Goku actually struggled against that he supposedly defeat in his base form?

IDK in this arc goku only jobbed to jiren in ssjb
He was holding back against kale
Blew off nink
Took out the trio De danger in blue with ease with vegeta
One kicked ribrianne
Easily walked though kunshee webs
Dispatched maji kayo
While weaken Ssjb kept up kefla
kk nearly rekt kefla