Opinions on Dragon Ball Minus

[WittyUsername]

It adds nothing of value to the series and only ends up retconning what we thought we knew about Goku’s backstory.

Not really. Raditz was probably told that he was sent away as a flying child to earth.

That’s still a retcon. We were previously led to believe that Goku was sent to Earth on a mission to conquer it, but now we’re told it was because his parents wanted to keep him safe.

In any case, it takes away what initially made Goku’s backstory unique, and instead reduces it to being a wannabe version of Superman’s backstory.

[Meshack]

It adds nothing of value to the series and only ends up retconning what we thought we knew about Goku’s backstory.

Not really. Raditz was probably told that he was sent away as a flying child to earth.

That’s still a retcon. We were previously led to believe that Goku was sent to Earth on a mission to conquer it, but now we’re told it was because his parents wanted to keep him safe.

In any case, it takes away what initially made Goku’s backstory unique, and instead reduces it to being a wannabe version of Superman’s backstory.

I mean, Toriyama introduced the Androids because of Terminator. I believe he introduced the Red Ribbon Army because of Star Wars or some other film. He created Gokuh-Black because of Kamen Rider Black and other evil incarnations of the hero. Dragon Ball takes from other series and makes it its own. How about we stop comparing Dragon Ball to other series and take it as if Toriyama created it on his own?

[Lord Beerus]

It adds nothing of value to the series and only ends up retconning what we thought we knew about Goku’s backstory.

Not really. Raditz was probably told that he was sent away as a flying child to earth.

That’s still a retcon. We were previously led to believe that Goku was sent to Earth on a mission to conquer it, but now we’re told it was because his parents wanted to keep him safe.

In any case, it takes away what initially made Goku’s backstory unique, and instead reduces it to being a wannabe version of Superman’s backstory.

And Superman’s backstory is a rip off of Moses.

[WittyUsername]

Not really. Raditz was probably told that he was sent away as a flying child to earth.

That’s still a retcon. We were previously led to believe that Goku was sent to Earth on a mission to conquer it, but now we’re told it was because his parents wanted to keep him safe.

In any case, it takes away what initially made Goku’s backstory unique, and instead reduces it to being a wannabe version of Superman’s backstory.

And Superman’s backstory is a rip off of Moses.

Minus took away what made Goku’s backstory unique. Pretty much anyone who’s truly familiar with Dragon Ball can see that Goku and Superman are two very different characters, but giving Goku an identical backstory to Superman only serves to reinforce this misconception that Goku is the Japanese equivalent of Superman, even though he really isn’t. Bottom line, Goku’s retconned backstory isn’t as unique as his previous backstory, and it doesn’t add anything of value to the series.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

That wasn't retconned because Toriyama never made it the tv special is not canon.

And Superman’s backstory is a rip off of Moses.

Care to explain I don't see how Superman and Moses are similar (I'm not a religious person tbh)

[Gaffer Tape]

That wasn't retconned because Toriyama never made it the tv special is not canon.

It has nothing to do with the TV special. It has to do with information directly from the manga. Raditz tells Goku he was sent to earth to destroy it. Dragon Ball Minus has retroactively altered that so that it's no longer true. Vegeta tells Goku that babies like him were sent to planets like earth because they were worthless trash, and Goku flips it on him by basically telling him that it was only because his people rejected him that he became the person who he was (and, in turn, is shown to have reached Vegeta's level and beyond). But all that has been retroactively wiped away too. Goku wasn't sent away because he had no use anywhere else and then just happened to thrive because of it. He was sent away specifically to live and thrive.

Care to explain I don't see how Superman and Moses are similar (I'm not a religious person tbh)

The Pharoah is systematically killing Hebrew babies, so Moses's mother puts him into a basket and sends him down the river, where he is found by the Egyptians and raised as one of them, similar to how Superman is sent away from his home to protect himself, is found, and raised as a local in his new environment. It's actually the comparison that Michael Uslan made to the teaching board of his university that convinced them to allow him to teach the first college-accredited course in comic books as literature.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

That wasn't retconned because Toriyama never made it the tv special is not canon.

It has nothing to do with the TV special. It has to do with information directly from the manga. Raditz tells Goku he was sent to earth to destroy it. Dragon Ball Minus has retroactively altered that so that it's no longer true. Vegeta tells Goku that babies like him were sent to planets like earth because they were worthless trash, and Goku flips it on him by basically telling him that it was only because his people rejected him that he became the person who he was (and, in turn, is shown to have reached Vegeta's level and beyond). But all that has been retroactively wiped away too. Goku wasn't sent away because he had no use anywhere else and then just happened to thrive because of it. He was sent away specifically to live and thrive.

Care to explain I don't see how Superman and Moses are similar (I'm not a religious person tbh)

The Pharoah is systematically killing Hebrew babies, so Moses's mother puts him into a basket and sends him down the river, where he is found by the Egyptians and raised as one of them, similar to how Superman is sent away from his home to protect himself, is found, and raised as a local in his new environment. It's actually the comparison that Michael Uslan made to the teaching board of his university that convinced them to allow him to teach the first college-accredited course in comic books as literature.

Damn now I see the parallel between Sup and Moses damn.

As for Raditz and Vegeta well they wasn't on Plant/Vegeta when he was sent to earth, so them saying that Goku was meant to destroy earth is true for THEIR POINT OF VIEW, Dragon Ball Minus never diminished this view.

[Gaffer Tape]

As for Raditz and Vegeta well they wasn't on Plant/Vegeta when he was sent to earth, so them saying that Goku was meant to destroy earth is true for THEIR POINT OF VIEW, Dragon Ball Minus never diminished this view.

I never said it magically changed their point of view. But it does change the facts of what happened. And that's really the only thing that's important.

I've noticed people, for some reason, seem to think it's more important to be able to avoid a plot hole than it is to hold on to a good story. So, and forgive me if I'm incorrectly lumping you in this group, if they can find an in-universe rationalization to patch over an out-of-universe contradiction (in this case by saying that Vegeta and Raditz simply didn't know the real story), then suddenly it's okay. But a retcon is not the same as a plot hole. And in my opinion, the damage to story and themes for the sake of something as trivial and poorly-written as Minus is not a trade-off worthy of that.

Besides, I thought you opened this up by arguing against the claim that Minus retcons Goku's origin story to be closer to Superman's. So what difference would it make in that context whether or not Vegeta and Raditz were correct in what they said? You know the "real" story now from Minus, which is much closer to Superman's than the story that had been perpetuated for nearly 25 years prior to that.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

I've noticed people, for some reason, seem to think it's more important to be able to avoid a plot hole than it is to hold on to a good story. So, and forgive me if I'm incorrectly lumping you in this group, if they can find an in-universe rationalization to patch over an out-of-universe contradiction (in this case by saying that Vegeta and Raditz simply didn't know the real story), then suddenly it's okay. But a retcon is not the same as a plot hole. And in my opinion, the damage to story and themes for the sake of something as trivial and poorly-written as Minus is not a trade-off worthy of that.

Besides, I thought you opened this up by arguing against the claim that Minus retcons Goku's origin story to be closer to Superman's. So what difference would it make in that context whether or not Vegeta and Raditz were correct in what they said? You know the "real" story now from Minus, which is much closer to Superman's than the story that had been perpetuated for nearly 25 years prior to that.

No no no I never opened this for arguing against don't worry, just that people take to granted more the tv-special than Dragon Ball Minus which come from the author himself. That is all.

As for Superman Goku similar back story I don't mind much, because Toriyama is known for his knowledge in pop culture. Look at the Future Trunks Saga/Android Saga/Cell Saga it's written Back To The Future meet Terminator all over it lol, and the S-Cells tidbits recently we can say Hello Star Wars. So I don't mind if Goku is kinda similar in back story as Superman I see that more as an hommage to the caped kryptonian and his accomplishment, pretty sure Akira Toriyama would have loved to meet Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster IRL.

I also Imagine well Toriyama make for the whole Saiyan race a Backstory a la planet of the Apes, so all along the Saiyan were a creation from not the Kaioshin but a sentient species who were wiped out by their creation; that would be totally under Toriyama style

[Meshack]

I've noticed people, for some reason, seem to think it's more important to be able to avoid a plot hole than it is to hold on to a good story. So, and forgive me if I'm incorrectly lumping you in this group, if they can find an in-universe rationalization to patch over an out-of-universe contradiction (in this case by saying that Vegeta and Raditz simply didn't know the real story), then suddenly it's okay. But a retcon is not the same as a plot hole. And in my opinion, the damage to story and themes for the sake of something as trivial and poorly-written as Minus is not a trade-off worthy of that.

Besides, I thought you opened this up by arguing against the claim that Minus retcons Goku's origin story to be closer to Superman's. So what difference would it make in that context whether or not Vegeta and Raditz were correct in what they said? You know the "real" story now from Minus, which is much closer to Superman's than the story that had been perpetuated for nearly 25 years prior to that.

No no no I never opened this for arguing against don't worry, just that people take to granted more the tv-special than Dragon Ball Minus which come from the author himself. That is all.

As for Superman Goku similar back story I don't mind much, because Toriyama is known for his knowledge in pop culture. Look at the Future Trunks Saga/Android Saga/Cell Saga it's written Back To The Future meet Terminator all over it lol, and the S-Cells tidbits recently we can say Hello Star Wars. So I don't mind if Goku is kinda similar in back story as Superman I see that more as an hommage to the caped kryptonian and his accomplishment, pretty sure Akira Toriyama would have loved to meet Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster IRL.

I also Imagine well Toriyama make for the whole Saiyan race a Backstory a la planet of the Apes, so all along the Saiyan were a creation from not the Kaioshin but a sentient species who were wiped out by their creation; that would be totally under Toriyama style

Please. S-Cells are in no way similar to Midi-chlorians

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

No no no I never opened this for arguing against don't worry, just that people take to granted more the tv-special than Dragon Ball Minus which come from the author himself. That is all.

As for Superman Goku similar back story I don't mind much, because Toriyama is known for his knowledge in pop culture. Look at the Future Trunks Saga/Android Saga/Cell Saga it's written Back To The Future meet Terminator all over it lol, and the S-Cells tidbits recently we can say Hello Star Wars. So I don't mind if Goku is kinda similar in back story as Superman I see that more as an hommage to the caped kryptonian and his accomplishment, pretty sure Akira Toriyama would have loved to meet Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster IRL.

I also Imagine well Toriyama make for the whole Saiyan race a Backstory a la planet of the Apes, so all along the Saiyan were a creation from not the Kaioshin but a sentient species who were wiped out by their creation; that would be totally under Toriyama style

Please. S-Cells are in no way similar to Midi-chlorians

They are not similar yes but it's clearly a reference/hommage

[Meshack]

No no no I never opened this for arguing against don't worry, just that people take to granted more the tv-special than Dragon Ball Minus which come from the author himself. That is all.

As for Superman Goku similar back story I don't mind much, because Toriyama is known for his knowledge in pop culture. Look at the Future Trunks Saga/Android Saga/Cell Saga it's written Back To The Future meet Terminator all over it lol, and the S-Cells tidbits recently we can say Hello Star Wars. So I don't mind if Goku is kinda similar in back story as Superman I see that more as an hommage to the caped kryptonian and his accomplishment, pretty sure Akira Toriyama would have loved to meet Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster IRL.

I also Imagine well Toriyama make for the whole Saiyan race a Backstory a la planet of the Apes, so all along the Saiyan were a creation from not the Kaioshin but a sentient species who were wiped out by their creation; that would be totally under Toriyama style

Please. S-Cells are in no way similar to Midi-chlorians

They are not similar yes but it's clearly a reference/hommage

Not really. Tokyo Ghoul has a very similar concept to S-Cells, not similar to Midi-chlorians, known as RC Cells. Doesn’t that mean, Toriyama has been reading Tokyo Ghoul? No because it’s not an original concept. I’m sure other series have this too