Roshi's antics

[WittyUsername]

Given that sexual misconduct has become a really hot-button topic these days, Roshi’s character as a whole doesn’t feel as funny as he used to be.

Imo, we shouldn't start trying to shut down humor just because we didn't found a particular piece of humor funny.

I’m not saying we should shut down humor, but the humor involving Roshi increasingly seems like it’s in poor taste, given that his kind of behavior would be enough to get someone arrested in real life. I’m sure that some would probably accuse me of being a “SJW” because of that, but it’s difficult to really find the humor involving Roshi funny. Apart from being a one-note gag, it has some unfortunate implications behind it.

[Doctor.]

This is exactly the same goal as every reflective thread on the forum, and indeed every thread not explicitly labeled "Let's fix (whatever)." This one doesn't suddenly become different because it's about social reflection or impact.

I'm aware of that, but the thread doesn't seem really to have any kind of point beyond acknowledging "Wow, this was somewhat inappropriate, right?" Obviously we, the audience, can't collectively change the scenes that have already happened and we (most likely) won't be able to change any writing in DBS, but that's not where I was getting at. I'm asking the people who have a problem with Roshi's antics to suggest an alternative, because his perverseness is a big aspect of his character and refusing to accept it positively not only affects one's understanding of the character but of the series as a whole.

2) If saying, "Here is a series we love, and there is nothing wrong with it," and "Here is a series we love, but the consensus is that this really stands out as an issue," draws no distinction for you, I'm not sure I know how to continue this conversation or what you think the point of discussing, analyzing, or reflecting on the series is at all.

I don't see why it's an issue and nobody has really given a reason as to why it's an issue, either. Sexual harassment is bad, we're all on the same page here. But there's a big jump from that statement to "Roshi's perverted nature is an issue." How does Roshi's actions affect anyone negatively? That's my question.

[rereboy]

given that his kind of behavior would be enough to get someone arrested in real life.

Throwing a brick at a guy from the top of a building and hitting him in the head would probably kill him, and yet it's just a joke from "Home Alone 2". Jokes and humor ALWAYS feel inappropriate if you look at them too seriously. There's endless comedies and sitcoms out there that at some point use some sort of decease or medical problem in some sort of joke, for example. How do you think the people that suffer from those deceases and medical conditions feel about it? It all really boils down to this: basically all humor feels inappropriate if we look at it too seriously. That's the whole point, to not take it seriously.

[Cipher]

I remember a long-awaited trend of men in positions of power being removed from posts in 2017 after decades of silently tolerated brick-throwing, in both the U.S. and Japan, making it an entirely fair comparison to the subject of this thread. It's a shame Home Alone 2 had to be so blithe about real issues though.

[Doctor.]

Why are real-life events and children's fiction an entirely fair comparison?

[ekrolo2]

As Doctor pointed out, Dragon Ball people do deplorable things all the time and they usually get away with, actually much more so then Roshi does. Roshi gets an appropriate fist to the face, among other things, what the hell has Goku been punished with for purposefully endangering the world on numerous occasions? Or Vegeta, who's a barely reformed mass murderer with a body count that would make Stalin, Hitler and Genghis Khan puke their guts out,..

Once again, I'm confused by this whole notion of "Oh well murder and destruction is okay but sex? That's where the line must be drawn!". Is it because murder and destruction are inherently viewed as the bad stuff while sex is something that's not so using it for other things is inherently gross? I don't know, personally I find stuff like the Deadpool movie where you're a pussy bitch because you don't think murdering people and loving it is the greatest thing ever way more annoying and screwed up then Roshi acting like a creep then promptly getting his ass kicked for it.

[rereboy]

It's a shame Home Alone 2 had to be so blithe about real issues though.

The shame, I think, is when we can't separate what is not meant to be taken serious from which actually is serious. That's when humor dies and nobody can't joke about anything without others being on the lookout ready to "crucify" them.

[Cipher]

Why are real-life events and children's fiction an entirely fair comparison?

Because fantastic martial-arts fights aren't real-life events, but sexually hareassing women is.

[Kanassa]

Why are real-life events and children's fiction an entirely fair comparison?

Because fantastic martial-arts fights aren't real-life events, but sexually hareassing women is.

I remember the reports of the rampant misuse of shrinking machines

[Doctor.]

Why are real-life events and children's fiction an entirely fair comparison?

Because fantastic martial-arts fights aren't real-life events, but sexually hareassing women is.

Roshi isn't sexually harassing any real women, you do realize this? I asked you already, who is he hurting?

[ABED]

Why are real-life events and children's fiction an entirely fair comparison?

Because fantastic martial-arts fights aren't real-life events, but sexually hareassing women is.

Genocide and murder are as well, but that doesn't stop him from ultimately being rewarded. I get that in art you don't want to contribute to normalize things like sexual harassment and assault, but where that line is isn't black and white.

[ekrolo2]

I ask once again: why is murder and destruction okay and we can make up any excuse for it but the second anything related to sex happens, it's immediately a big deal? Cause I would think Vegeta murdering people, 99.999% of which never ever come back and never get any proper justice for what happened to them is infinitely worse then Roshi peeping on Bulma and Chi-Chi then getting smashed for it with neither of the two suffering any long term negative effects from him doing so.

[Cipher]

Roshi isn't sexually harassing any real women, you do realize this? I asked you already, who is he hurting?

As a fictional character, no one (obviously, but that can't have been what you meant to ask). As a piece of fiction, possibly a lot of people by being one of many things in the public eye to normalize a sort of light dismissal of what is still a prominent and oft-ignored kind of harassment.

This isn't to say Toriyama, whose work I largely love, is any kind of malicious sexist, or ragingly irresponsible, etc. It's just being honest about an element of his work he probably didn't give the thought he should have, and is thus something that remains with the series as a blemish that shouldn't be glossed over, lest we continue to create an atmosphere where popular authors do the same thing over and over again.

Re: Murder vs. sexual harassment above: Because context exists and society largely doesn't seem to have a light tolerance of mass-murder. (And even then, character redemptions aside, the series treats said mass-murder with quite a bit more gravity.)

[Doctor.]

As a fictional character, no one (obviously, but that can't have been what you meant to ask). As a piece of fiction, possibly a lot of people by being one of many things in the public eye to normalize a sort of light dismissal of what is still a prominent and oft-ignored kind of harassment.

But it's not normalizing anything. If anything, the series is telling you straight-up "if someone sexually harasses you, feel free to punch them in the face."

This isn't to say Toriyama, whose work I largely love, is any kind of malicious sexist

And, on this point, I think Toriyama, quite clearly actually, is a sexist, though he probably doesn't have any malicious intent.

[ekrolo2]

Re: Murder vs. sexual harassment above: Because context exists and society largely doesn't seem to have a light tolerance of mass-murder. (And even then, character redemptions aside, the series treats said mass-murder with quite a bit more gravity.)

Society DOES have a light tolerance to it concerning fiction, however, which is the subject here. How many movies, video games,...such exist where protagonists rack up insane body counts and nothing ever comes from it? How many stories are there where such actions are vindicated and even praised and people largely just don't give a shit about it but when anything concerning sex happens, it gets on the national news.

Like, the recent Punisher show, I know for a fact that if the Vegas shootings hadn't happened, NOBODY would give one tenth of a shit about the fact Frank is an unhinged lunatic who's only way to live is 50 shades of murdering the crap out of everyone he can.

Or lets bring it back up to Deadpool: that movie is entirely sold on the point that pussy bitches are the only people who can't find joy in glorious ways to inflict violence and death on their fellow man, nobody cares, they laugh and joke about it and its funny. Now, imagine the very same point being made but instead of killing, its stalking women or men or whichever of the 20 genders people have invented now and everyone involved would get smashed to shit. Why is pain, death and violence okay, but anything relating to sex isn't with regards to fiction and how we perceive it?

[Ringworm128]

One reason I think this topic is pointless is the fact that stopping Roshi isn't going to help anyone. They could erase him from the entire history of DB and real life sexual harassment.

And honestly how would they even handle it, apart from the usual punch over the head?

Close your eyes and think about every aspect of Dragonball; the way it's written, drawn, paced, it's entire vibe. Even throw in Funimation's version for good measure. Can you honestly picture an episode where Roshi has to register as a sex offender or has an intervention.

[VegettoEX]

What could they have done?

They could maybe have stopped themselves before writing a potential rape scenario for him in 2015-2017 and no-one would have missed it or thought any less of him as a character going into a multi-universal fighting tournament.

If people want to talk about "flanderizing" and obscene exaggeration of characters in Super to the point of them being out of character, let's be self-consistent and comprehensive here.

[Doctor.]

Who is this affecting? You keep claiming it's bad and expect it to believe it's bad... because? You have yet to give reasons as to why Roshi's actions are an issue at all.

[VegettoEX]

I don't know how or why I have to explain why reaffirming rape culture is a bad thing.

This is very frightening to read on my forum.

[Ringworm128]

I ment "they" as in the in universe characters. Yes the writers could easily stop him but they didn't. How would you expect the characters to react while still staying in character? Also I thought we were talking about Roshi as a whole not just Super.