Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

It was no longer cannon once Dragon ball minus came out. This is nothing new. If you care that much, don´t go see the movie. We don´t need more toxicity in the fandom. We have more than enough already.

[AnimeNation101]

1) The Bardock Special was never really canon, though it was well-liked by Toriyama ans influences from it did leak to the manga
2) Chill the fuck out about Bardock's last stand - we don't know if it was cut from this movie, likely not.
3) Why do you care so much about that last stand scene anyway? It was ok, but that's it. Also, "iconic armor"? Is that shit really that important to you?

Why would we be complaining if there was no proof that it was cut? Because there IS proof.

You don’t see any Bardock or any of the thousands of Freeza soldiers swarming space when Freeza throws his death ball. All we see is Freeza, his ship, his blast, the Planet, and the empty void of space around it all. That means, seemingly, the rebellion never happened and Freeza destroyed the planet unopposed. So until its disproven, the its fair for people to complain that they may have removed the rebellion.

And i find it stupid of you to question why fans would be mad that their favorite character for the most iconic scene of a character they like has been erased from the existence of the continuity. OF COURSE THE SCENE IS IMPORTANT. Its what made many people like the character. Showing that he had the balls to take on Freeza’a Army and Freeza himself. Its in every video game. Its an important part of the history of the show.

It would be like getting rid of the Father Son Kamehameha beam struggle with Cell and just having Gohan finish him off with your average kamehameha instead.

[AnimeNation101]

It was no longer cannon once Dragon ball minus came out. This is nothing new. If you care that much, don´t go see the movie. We don´t need more toxicity in the fandom. We have more than enough already.

Very hypocritical of you. You know whats toxic? Calling other people toxic because they disagree with how Toriyama handles something that affects a character they like. I expected more from someone with a konosuba profile pic. But then again, its Megumine and not Aqua so I'm not surprised.

[ekrolo2]

It would be like getting rid of the Father Son Kamehameha beam struggle with Cell and just having Gohan finish him off with your average kamehameha instead.

That's basically what Minus has done with Goku vs Vegeta from the Saiyan arc. All of the stuff about a worthless, low-level castoff overcoming his intended lot in life and purpose to become someone better is lost. It's comical that they give Goku the "low-level Saiyan" tagline when that is effectively irrelevant to how and why he even goes to Earth.

[Saturnine]

It would be like getting rid of the Father Son Kamehameha beam struggle with Cell and just having Gohan finish him off with your average kamehameha instead.

That shit was dumb as shit - it's clear Gohan was the only one who was putting energy in that kamehameha, so I'd actually prefer it the way you just described

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

1) The Bardock Special was never really canon, though it was well-liked by Toriyama ans influences from it did leak to the manga
2) Chill the fuck out about Bardock's last stand - we don't know if it was cut from this movie, likely not.
3) Why do you care so much about that last stand scene anyway? It was ok, but that's it. Also, "iconic armor"? Is that shit really that important to you?

Why would we be complaining if there was no proof that it was cut? Because there IS proof.

You don’t see any Bardock or any of the thousands of Freeza soldiers swarming space when Freeza throws his death ball. All we see is Freeza, his ship, his blast, the Planet, and the empty void of space around it all. That means, seemingly, the rebellion never happened and Freeza destroyed the planet unopposed. So until its disproven, the its fair for people to complain that they may have removed the rebellion.

And i find it stupid of you to question why fans would be mad that their favorite character for the most iconic scene of a character they like has been erased from the existence of the continuity. OF COURSE THE SCENE IS IMPORTANT. Its what made many people like the character. Showing that he had the balls to take on Freeza’a Army and Freeza himself. Its in every video game. Its an important part of the history of the show.

It would be like getting rid of the Father Son Kamehameha beam struggle with Cell and just having Gohan finish him off with your average kamehameha instead.

First off, Bardock and frieza´s soldiers could have totally been killed by his death ball before it hit the planet like before. Just because we don't see them it doesn't mean that it didn´t happen. Second off, comparing the end of a major arc in Z to an ending to a TV special is just plain retarded.

[mute_proxy]

The only thing that should be left canon is Bardock wearing his TV special armor and Freeza wearing his shoulder padded armor while destroying Vegeta, since it's in the manga. Seems like it's very likely gonna change, which is sad

Also noticed that his upper body is different from when he broke off his armor in the manga, I wonder what's up with that

[AnimeNation101]

1) The Bardock Special was never really canon, though it was well-liked by Toriyama ans influences from it did leak to the manga
2) Chill the fuck out about Bardock's last stand - we don't know if it was cut from this movie, likely not.
3) Why do you care so much about that last stand scene anyway? It was ok, but that's it. Also, "iconic armor"? Is that shit really that important to you?

Why would we be complaining if there was no proof that it was cut? Because there IS proof.

You don’t see any Bardock or any of the thousands of Freeza soldiers swarming space when Freeza throws his death ball. All we see is Freeza, his ship, his blast, the Planet, and the empty void of space around it all. That means, seemingly, the rebellion never happened and Freeza destroyed the planet unopposed. So until its disproven, the its fair for people to complain that they may have removed the rebellion.

And i find it stupid of you to question why fans would be mad that their favorite character for the most iconic scene of a character they like has been erased from the existence of the continuity. OF COURSE THE SCENE IS IMPORTANT. Its what made many people like the character. Showing that he had the balls to take on Freeza’a Army and Freeza himself. Its in every video game. Its an important part of the history of the show.

It would be like getting rid of the Father Son Kamehameha beam struggle with Cell and just having Gohan finish him off with your average kamehameha instead.

First off, Bardock and frieza´s soldiers could have totally been killed by his death ball before it hit the planet like before. Just because we don't see them it doesn't mean that it didn´t happen. Second off, comparing the end of a major arc in Z to an ending to a TV special is just plain retarded.

Using the word “restarted” now huh?

Its the same thing. And important event in db history that is many peoples’ fan favorite and a scene that defines a character. Getting rid of Bardock’s rebellion that was not only in the TV special but was also validated by the manga is the same as getting rid of the Father Son Kamehameha. Or getting rid of the Super Spirit Bomb.

[#17]

No problem with it or are people bitching that the Chilled stuff isn't canon as well?

[TheOne]

What a waste. The original Bardock special, along with the flashbacks of Freeza knocking out King Vegeta on his ship, and destroying Bardock and his team is no longer canon? So what happened to Bardock's team? Do they no longer exist, the ones Dodoria killed?

Bardock will no longer fight Freeza in space before he gets killed? Ugh, I hate Dragonball Minus becoming canon. Toriyama is going "George Lucas" with the series.

That special was never fully "canon", and it's been retconned since dragon ball minus which came out years ago. This isn't new. However Frieza's design is different which is weird.

It’s still frustrating though. If someone was to watch the entire dragon ball series, all the way up to the Broly movie (including bardock and history of Trunks) they would be confused as heck watching all these retcons.

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

Now that The Bardock Special isnt cannon, that means episode of Bardock isn't cannon either, which is amazing cause Bardock being The First Super Saiyan is Dumb and still is dumb. If I have to lose Red Bandana Bardock to get rid of that, I´m all for it.

[sintzu]

If you care that much, don´t go see the movie. We don´t need more toxicity in the fandom. We have more than enough already.

Fans have every right to call this out just as much as you have the right to support it.

Now that The Bardock Special isnt cannon, that means episode of Bardock isn't cannon either, which is amazing cause Bardock being The First Super Saiyan is Dumb and still is dumb. If I have to lose Red Bandana Bardock to get rid of that, I´m all for it.

That was never canon to begin with as they clarified early on that it was a game only story.

If someone was to watch the entire dragon ball series, all the way up to the Broly movie (including bardock and history of Trunks) they would be confused as heck watching all these retcons.

They would be unless someone explained why things are the way they are. Or they could just look it up themselves. I was hoping they'd find a way to combine the special and minus into one and still do so hopefully the parts we like form the special will find a way in.

[TheOne]

1) The Bardock Special was never really canon, though it was well-liked by Toriyama ans influences from it did leak to the manga
2) Chill the fuck out about Bardock's last stand - we don't know if it was cut from this movie, likely not.
3) Why do you care so much about that last stand scene anyway? It was ok, but that's it. Also, "iconic armor"? Is that shit really that important to you?

Why would we be complaining if there was no proof that it was cut? Because there IS proof.

You don’t see any Bardock or any of the thousands of Freeza soldiers swarming space when Freeza throws his death ball. All we see is Freeza, his ship, his blast, the Planet, and the empty void of space around it all. That means, seemingly, the rebellion never happened and Freeza destroyed the planet unopposed. So until its disproven, the its fair for people to complain that they may have removed the rebellion.

And i find it stupid of you to question why fans would be mad that their favorite character for the most iconic scene of a character they like has been erased from the existence of the continuity. OF COURSE THE SCENE IS IMPORTANT. Its what made many people like the character. Showing that he had the balls to take on Freeza’a Army and Freeza himself. Its in every video game. Its an important part of the history of the show.

It would be like getting rid of the Father Son Kamehameha beam struggle with Cell and just having Gohan finish him off with your average kamehameha instead.

First off, Bardock and frieza´s soldiers could have totally been killed by his death ball before it hit the planet like before. Just because we don't see them it doesn't mean that it didn´t happen. Second off, comparing the end of a major arc in Z to an ending to a TV special is just plain retarded.

To pretend as if Bardocks ending is not iconic is just ridiculous. While he was too weak to do Frieza harm, he planted the seed of rebellion in Freeza's mind. Bardock also having visions of his son finishing his work is also iconic. Frankly, I think they should’ve done a better job when writing this series. If they wouldn’t of been so basic/lazy at the beginning of the series, we wouldn’t have to worry about this kind of stuff. This is the same guy who completely forgot that Broly was a character in his series. Or completely forgot why he wrote Roshi out of Z and magically made him competitive in Super, bypasssing all the work Z fighters made on earth and on namek.

[Grimlock]

Bardock not going to face Freeza also affects Dragon Ball Online. Well, not that it was actually shown Bardock being saved while facing Freeza there, it's just words that can be "rewritten" ("retconned"), but still.

Dude they better not fuck it up everything with Bardock through this movie, more than just his character/his legacy would be completely wasted.

[CTAkuma]

Fans have every right to call this out just as much as you have the right to support it.

No because retcons happen everywhere in all kinds of media, ofcourse you have the right to complain, but to say the movie is worse because something you personally liked is retconned is moronic

[The Tori-bot]

Now that The Bardock Special isnt cannon, that means episode of Bardock isn't cannon either, which is amazing cause Bardock being The First Super Saiyan is Dumb and still is dumb. If I have to lose Red Bandana Bardock to get rid of that, I´m all for it.

I'll do you one better: if Bardock's stand against Freeza doesn't happen, that means the manga isn't canon.

Really, that's the only part I'm actually concerned about. Freeza remembers Bardock. He remembers that a Saiyan who looked exactly like Goku confronted him immediately before he destroyed Planet Vegeta and said Saiyan along with it. If that part is changed for the movie (which it might be based on the trailer - no sign of Bardock; Freeza without his armour), then we have ourselves a bona fide plot hole. There's no wiggle room along the lines of "Well ACKSHULEY Toriyama never drew Goku's arrival on Earth". It'll just be flat-out wrong and irreconcilable with the manga; the people who really dive deep into this sort of stuff will have to make up a whole new timeline to put this movie in.

[sintzu]

Fans have every right to call this out just as much as you have the right to support it.

No because retcons happen everywhere in all kinds of media, ofcourse you have the right to complain, but to say the movie is worse because something you personally liked is retconned is moronic

I've said in the movie's topic that these retcons won't hurt my overall enjoyment of the movie but that doesn't change the fact that they're unnecessary. Again, why change something that's already established if it's not going to have a purpose in the story ?

[FortuneSSJ]

That's basically what Minus has done with Goku vs Vegeta from the Saiyan arc. All of the stuff about a worthless, low-level castoff overcoming his intended lot in life and purpose to become someone better is lost. It's comical that they give Goku the "low-level Saiyan" tagline when that is effectively irrelevant to how and why he even goes to Earth.

Minus Goku may not even need to hit his head to become good. He just inherited his mom's kind personality and one day when Raditz comes to Earth and asks him why he didn't conquer it, Goku will say daddy didn't ask him to do that.

[ekrolo2]

That's basically what Minus has done with Goku vs Vegeta from the Saiyan arc. All of the stuff about a worthless, low-level castoff overcoming his intended lot in life and purpose to become someone better is lost. It's comical that they give Goku the "low-level Saiyan" tagline when that is effectively irrelevant to how and why he even goes to Earth.

Minus Goku may not even need to hit his head to become good. He just inherited his mom's kind personality and one day when Raditz comes to Earth and asks him why he didn't conquer it, Goku will say daddy didn't ask him to do that.

Yeah and Freeza conquered Kanassa which gave him the ability to know what Bardock looks like even though he doesn't meet Bardock by peering into a possible future!

[TysonWine]

Fans have every right to call this out just as much as you have the right to support it.

No because retcons happen everywhere in all kinds of media, ofcourse you have the right to complain, but to say the movie is worse because something you personally liked is retconned is moronic

Why is that moronic? There's plenty of reasons to not like a movie. If it doesn't live up to a certain person's standards so be it. Saying "Retcons happen everywhere in all kinds of media," is your way of trying to lessen the severity of retcons. It may be a bigger deal to the next person than it is to you, and that's fine.

That's basically what Minus has done with Goku vs Vegeta from the Saiyan arc. All of the stuff about a worthless, low-level castoff overcoming his intended lot in life and purpose to become someone better is lost. It's comical that they give Goku the "low-level Saiyan" tagline when that is effectively irrelevant to how and why he even goes to Earth.

Minus Goku may not even need to hit his head to become good. He just inherited his mom's kind personality and one day when Raditz comes to Earth and asks him why he didn't conquer it, Goku will say daddy didn't ask him to do that.

Do you feel that would ruin or help Goku's story? I prefer the idea of Goku becoming good from a freak accident better as it keeps him unique. Him being a descendant from a line of kind hearted Saiyans makes him less special in my opinion.