When did you start liking Vegeta?

[90sDBZ]

Like others I respected him early on for being a tough motherfucker on earth, and also a cunning bastard on Namek. He was very likeable as an anti-hero on Namek.

I felt his training for the Androids was one of his defining moments that many people respect and remember him for. The guy was an underdog giving it his all to get stronger, grinding away under insane conditions. It humanized him in a way.

When he became a Super Saiyan is when he got a bit annoying, like a kid boasting about his new toy even though another kid had it first and didn't boast about it. I still respected his pride and work ethic in the Cell arc, but he was annoying at times, like how he insisted he was the only one who could take Cell immediately after getting his ass kicked.

In the Buu arc he matured and became a decent guy in the end, the Majin Vegeta incident aside. I felt for him during his sacrifice, and I loved his "You are number 1!" speech. I also appreciated him making sure he wished back his victims at the tournament. In a weird way him becoming Majin Vegeta was like a midlife crisis, wanting to recapture his "glory days" as a villain, before accepting the reality that he wasn't that person anymore.

In GT he was even more mature, leaving Goku to go into space alone and saying he would protect the earth because it was his home.

Super gives him some good comic relief moments and shows him as more of a family man, which is nice.

[PFM18]

To me it’s more appropriate to say when I STOPPED liking Vegeta. I’ve pretty much always liked Vegeta. Sure he got annoying in the Cell arc, but I never started to hate the character because of that. Then came Super and the ToP arc. For the first time in my life I started to hate Vegeta, and wished he wasn’t on screen. I felt he got completely butchered and turned into a literal shell of himself for 50 straight episodes. I think the new Moro arc is doing a much better job with him, so I may come around to liking him again.

Care to explain?

GT continued things a little, with him kind of living the aftermath of where he ended up after the Boo arc, which was neat to see for an ending to the story./quote]

If GT ends with Vegeta challenging Goku proclaiming "today is the day I will defeat you Kakarot", how exactly did GT continue from where he left off after the Boo arc while Super regressed the character? Especially when the original manga literally ends with Vegeta saying "I will surpass you one day, Kakarot." And no, it does not matter that the line was added in the Kanzenban.

GT could not have butchered the character more without making it look like a parody version.

[MajinMan]

To me it’s more appropriate to say when I STOPPED liking Vegeta. I’ve pretty much always liked Vegeta. Sure he got annoying in the Cell arc, but I never started to hate the character because of that. Then came Super and the ToP arc. For the first time in my life I started to hate Vegeta, and wished he wasn’t on screen. I felt he got completely butchered and turned into a literal shell of himself for 50 straight episodes. I think the new Moro arc is doing a much better job with him, so I may come around to liking him again.

Care to explain?

The entirety of the ToP arc was Vegeta being pissy at everyone else and claiming he was the best. It was either that or getting power up after power up because he wants to protect his family and revive Cabba. For 50 straight episodes.

[Lord Beerus]

To me it’s more appropriate to say when I STOPPED liking Vegeta. I’ve pretty much always liked Vegeta. Sure he got annoying in the Cell arc, but I never started to hate the character because of that. Then came Super and the ToP arc. For the first time in my life I started to hate Vegeta, and wished he wasn’t on screen. I felt he got completely butchered and turned into a literal shell of himself for 50 straight episodes. I think the new Moro arc is doing a much better job with him, so I may come around to liking him again.

Care to explain?

The entirety of the ToP arc was Vegeta being pissy at everyone else and claiming he was the best. It was either that or getting power up after power up because he wants to protect his family and revive Cabba. For 50 straight episodes.

Vegeta's characterisation was weird in the Universe Survival arc.

Like, he showed nuanced respect and compassion to people he gave a shit about (his teammates and Cabba), but at the same time goes on to say shit like how he was going to be win the defeat Goku (why?) and win Tournament Of Power. But the worst I saw of Vegeta in the Universe Survival arc in the anime was when audaciously bragged once about being the strongest Saiyan after Goku had just attained Ultra Instinct. Thankfully after that episode (114?), they toned down his arrogance majorly. Consequentially, in exchange, Toei cranked up his empathy and sympathy to others to almost nauseating levels.

In the manga, Toyotaro wrote Vegeta even worse in that arc. Every character and story beat for him in that arc in the manga was a downgrade in every way.

[Kinokima]

Care to explain?

The entirety of the ToP arc was Vegeta being pissy at everyone else and claiming he was the best. It was either that or getting power up after power up because he wants to protect his family and revive Cabba. For 50 straight episodes.

Vegeta's characterisation was weird in the Universe Survival arc.

Like, he showed nuanced respect and compassion to people he gave a shit about (his teammates and Cabba), but at the same time goes on to say shit like how he was going to be win the defeat Goku (why?) and win Tournament Of Power. But the worst I saw of Vegeta in the Universe Survival arc in the anime was when audaciously bragged once about being the strongest Saiyan after Goku had just attained Ultra Instinct. Thankfully after that episode (114?), they toned down his arrogance majorly. Consequentially, in exchange, Toei cranked up his empathy and sympathy to others to almost nauseating levels.

In the manga, Toyotaro wrote Vegeta even worse in that arc. Every character and story beat for him in that arc in the manga was a downgrade in every way.

I only remember one scene in the manga for Vegeta being bad the transformation scene when he gets the power up because he is angry that Goku got UI and was left behind. It harkened back to when he turned SSJ being angry at himself but I am not really sure that was the best approach for Toyo to take. I personally prefer the anime’s approach of Vegeta getting the power up because he wanted to keep the promise to Cabba because it showed how much he had changed

Oh and I guess him saying he never had a teacher in the manga was pretty bad too. I don’t think Toyo was even trying to write Vegeta as a jerk. It just came off that way.


The manga also had Vegeta be the one to suggest to Goku that they work together. I liked that approach more than in the anime where Vegeta kept getting angry at Goku and they were completely out of synch acting like it was impossible for them to work together (but somehow Goku and Freeza would work great together)


The anime had the worst scene of all though with Vegeta not giving his energy to Goku for the Spirit Bomb with literally no explanation. The same writer also wrote the Best Saiyan line so I guess that is how he sees Vegeta. But the real problem is no one in charge could tell him that was bad writing and not who Vegeta is now and someone definitely should have.


And that is what I see as the main issue with the TOP (at least in the anime) is Inconsistency to me. They probably had main things that had to happen but otherwise it seems the writers could do whatever they wanted and I am not sure if they read each other’s scripts or even if a director looked everything over and said we can’t do this in episode A because something similar happened in episode B. Or we can’t do this because it contradicts this. And I think Vegeta was a victim of this.

[Lord Beerus]

The entirety of the ToP arc was Vegeta being pissy at everyone else and claiming he was the best. It was either that or getting power up after power up because he wants to protect his family and revive Cabba. For 50 straight episodes.

Vegeta's characterisation was weird in the Universe Survival arc.

Like, he showed nuanced respect and compassion to people he gave a shit about (his teammates and Cabba), but at the same time goes on to say shit like how he was going to be win the defeat Goku (why?) and win Tournament Of Power. But the worst I saw of Vegeta in the Universe Survival arc in the anime was when audaciously bragged once about being the strongest Saiyan after Goku had just attained Ultra Instinct. Thankfully after that episode (114?), they toned down his arrogance majorly. Consequentially, in exchange, Toei cranked up his empathy and sympathy to others to almost nauseating levels.

In the manga, Toyotaro wrote Vegeta even worse in that arc. Every character and story beat for him in that arc in the manga was a downgrade in every way.

I only remember one scene in the manga for Vegeta being bad the transformation scene when he gets the power up because he is angry that Goku got UI and was left behind. It harkened back to when he turned SSJ being angry at himself but I am not really sure that was the best approach for Toyo to take. I personally prefer the anime’s approach of Vegeta getting the power up because he wanted to keep the promise to Cabba because it showed how much he had changed

Oh and I guess him saying he never had a teacher in the manga was pretty bad too. I don’t think Toyo was even trying to write Vegeta as a jerk. It just came off that way.


The manga also had Vegeta be the one to suggest to Goku that they work together. I liked that approach more than in the anime where Vegeta kept getting angry at Goku and they were completely out of synch acting like it was impossible for them to work together (but somehow Goku and Freeza would work great together)


The anime had the worst scene of all though with Vegeta not giving his energy to Goku for the Spirit Bomb with literally no explanation. The same writer also wrote the Best Saiyan line so I guess that is how he sees Vegeta. But the real problem is no one in charge could tell him that was bad writing and not who Vegeta is now and someone definitely should have.


And that is what I see as the main issue with the TOP (at least in the anime) is Inconsistency to me. They probably had main things that had to happen but otherwise it seems the writers could do whatever they wanted and I am not sure if they read each other’s scripts or even if a director looked everything over and said we can’t do this in episode A because something similar happened in episode B. Or we can’t do this because it contradicts this. And I think Vegeta was a victim of this.

Oh my God, I completely forget about that moment where he point blank refused to give Goku Ki for the Genki Dama in his fight against Jiren for no reason. That was quite OOC. But I forgive that moment because of how wonderfully when Vegeta's elimination was, with him giving energy to Goku before being eliminated and putting so much faith and trust in Goku to beat Jiren. So the scenes even out of for.

With regards to the inconsistency of the writing, it all comes down the series composer. How the writers write the script is influenced by the creative direction the series composer and how much the writers know where the series is going to go from a narrative standpoint. Of course, the general quality of the writer is to be considered as a major factor, too.

[Raimundo]

I loved him a lot on Namek. Very fun character there. I stopped liking him and became apathetic towards him after that though and I’ve had nothing but apathy for him ever since

[Son Gara]

Back when it first aired on Toonami. Watching the original 53 episodes, I felt he was the most developed character. Also the fact that he wasn't in any of the movies (which was just 3 at the time)made him more unique to me. Once "Season 3" began I still enjoyed him, but after killing Jhesse he basically became a one note character for the rest of the series, always bitching about how he was suppose to be the strongest, etc. Which was a real shame, as in the early Namek parts he was cold, calculating, and methodical. Super has come a long way in giving his character more development, but for me I really stopped caring for him personally a long time ago.

[ruler9871]

The entirety of the ToP arc was Vegeta being pissy at everyone else and claiming he was the best. It was either that or getting power up after power up because he wants to protect his family and revive Cabba. For 50 straight episodes.

Vegeta's characterisation was weird in the Universe Survival arc.

Like, he showed nuanced respect and compassion to people he gave a shit about (his teammates and Cabba), but at the same time goes on to say shit like how he was going to be win the defeat Goku (why?) and win Tournament Of Power. But the worst I saw of Vegeta in the Universe Survival arc in the anime was when audaciously bragged once about being the strongest Saiyan after Goku had just attained Ultra Instinct. Thankfully after that episode (114?), they toned down his arrogance majorly. Consequentially, in exchange, Toei cranked up his empathy and sympathy to others to almost nauseating levels.

In the manga, Toyotaro wrote Vegeta even worse in that arc. Every character and story beat for him in that arc in the manga was a downgrade in every way.

I only remember one scene in the manga for Vegeta being bad the transformation scene when he gets the power up because he is angry that Goku got UI and was left behind. It harkened back to when he turned SSJ being angry at himself but I am not really sure that was the best approach for Toyo to take. I personally prefer the anime’s approach of Vegeta getting the power up because he wanted to keep the promise to Cabba because it showed how much he had changed

Oh and I guess him saying he never had a teacher in the manga was pretty bad too. I don’t think Toyo was even trying to write Vegeta as a jerk. It just came off that way.


The manga also had Vegeta be the one to suggest to Goku that they work together. I liked that approach more than in the anime where Vegeta kept getting angry at Goku and they were completely out of synch acting like it was impossible for them to work together (but somehow Goku and Freeza would work great together)


The anime had the worst scene of all though with Vegeta not giving his energy to Goku for the Spirit Bomb with literally no explanation. The same writer also wrote the Best Saiyan line so I guess that is how he sees Vegeta. But the real problem is no one in charge could tell him that was bad writing and not who Vegeta is now and someone definitely should have.


And that is what I see as the main issue with the TOP (at least in the anime) is Inconsistency to me. They probably had main things that had to happen but otherwise it seems the writers could do whatever they wanted and I am not sure if they read each other’s scripts or even if a director looked everything over and said we can’t do this in episode A because something similar happened in episode B. Or we can’t do this because it contradicts this. And I think Vegeta was a victim of this.

He bragged about being the best Saiyan in the ToP manga too.

[ruler9871]

Back when it first aired on Toonami. Watching the original 53 episodes, I felt he was the most developed character. Also the fact that he wasn't in any of the movies (which was just 3 at the time)made him more unique to me. Once "Season 3" began I still enjoyed him, but after killing Jhesse he basically became a one note character for the rest of the series, always bitching about how he was suppose to be the strongest, etc. Which was a real shame, as in the early Namek parts he was cold, calculating, and methodical. Super has come a long way in giving his character more development, but for me I really stopped caring for him personally a long time ago.

He's been like that since since day one in Z. Remember how he reacted to KKx3 Goku beating him up? He's only "cold, calculating, and methodical" when he's up against someone he knows is way above him.

[Son Gara]

Back when it first aired on Toonami. Watching the original 53 episodes, I felt he was the most developed character. Also the fact that he wasn't in any of the movies (which was just 3 at the time)made him more unique to me. Once "Season 3" began I still enjoyed him, but after killing Jhesse he basically became a one note character for the rest of the series, always bitching about how he was suppose to be the strongest, etc. Which was a real shame, as in the early Namek parts he was cold, calculating, and methodical. Super has come a long way in giving his character more development, but for me I really stopped caring for him personally a long time ago.

He's been like that since since day one in Z. Remember how he reacted to KKx3 Goku beating him up? He's only "cold, calculating, and methodical" when he's up against someone he knows is way above him.

That was different as he was more shocked and angry that someone he thought was weaker than himself was able to do that to him. There's definitely a difference between how he acted there from the rest of the series post early Namek arc.

[ruler9871]

Back when it first aired on Toonami. Watching the original 53 episodes, I felt he was the most developed character. Also the fact that he wasn't in any of the movies (which was just 3 at the time)made him more unique to me. Once "Season 3" began I still enjoyed him, but after killing Jhesse he basically became a one note character for the rest of the series, always bitching about how he was suppose to be the strongest, etc. Which was a real shame, as in the early Namek parts he was cold, calculating, and methodical. Super has come a long way in giving his character more development, but for me I really stopped caring for him personally a long time ago.

He's been like that since since day one in Z. Remember how he reacted to KKx3 Goku beating him up? He's only "cold, calculating, and methodical" when he's up against someone he knows is way above him.

That was different as he was more shocked and angry that someone he thought was weaker than himself was able to do that to him. There's definitely a difference between how he acted there from the rest of the series post early Namek arc.

And how is that different from how he acted against Final Form Freeza, Android 18 and Perfect Cell?