Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

[Planetnamek]

I like TFS as much as next guy, but... come the fuck on. They have had zero influence on Dragon Ball's revival. Dragon Ball was still getting yearly video games, home video re-releases and occasional reruns on TV, so even amongst the most niche part of the fandom, Dragon Ball always had a presence in the West. This isn't to dismiss they work or even the recognition they come from the some prominent members of the FUNimation staff, but man, some fans are VASTLY overestimating the significance of the show. Hell, I'd say its had a negative impact in some parts of the community as so many fans will take the most prominent gags in the show and try to crowbar them into the actual story.

Agreed, TFS has had very little influence positive or negative.

[MasenkoHA]

[
That was apparently where Toriyama wanted to end it though, Buu was said to have only have happened because of demand for fans for more, and considering how all-over-the-place that arc is it's easy to see that.

[

No it wasn’t. That was always only a rumor.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/cell/


The only planned ending pre-Boo was that he originally figured he would end it after they collected the dragon balls the first time.

[Matches Malone]

Abridged overall is destructive to me because it's only served to confirm in people's minds that Dragon Ball is not a product you watch with any sort of seriousness because it is inherently dumb and thus has no artistic merit.

Abridge is like any fan made parody, something for fans to laugh at, not much more. Everything has a parody, but fans of other properties don't look at them as anything more than that, a parody. The problem isn't the existence of the parody, but the Western, or to be more exact, the North American fan base. This fan base for the most part doesn't care about the source material, be it the original manga, or Japanese anime, and instead prefers a dub that pretends DB is something it isn't, or a fan parody that pretends DB is something it isn't. In other words, they want DB to be something it isn't, a fake dark show, or a fake stupid show.

His dissatisfaction with Evolution was one reason why he elected to take Toei up on their offer to work with them on Battle Of Gods.

Actually, he wasn't asked to take part in it, but instead decided to on his own, at least according to his message with the BOG special edition.

Buu was said to have only have happened because of demand for fans for more, and considering how all-over-the-place that arc is it's easy to see that.

Fake rumor by fans who think it should've ended with Cell, but instead of saying that, they say Toriyama wanted to end it there but was forced to continue. Toriyama himself said he didn't feel like the manga could end after Cell. With that said, Toriyama didn't plan on the manga being 500+ chapters long, or how the story ended up developing across said chapters, but that applies to every author starting out.

In terms of the Buu arc's quality, I personally think it's just as good as the others, but whatever shortcomings it had are the results of Toriyama simply being burned out due to writing and drawing DB for 8 years (Buu would extend that to 10 years) and manga overall for 13 years. The Buu arc is the longest arc in the manga, 99 chapters, so if he was "forced" to do it, I doubt he would've made it that long, or put much effort into the story as he did.

[Cursed Lemon]

"DBZA is supplanting the actual series in the minds of fans, it's annoying!"

It ain't DBZA's fault that the main series can be so painfully mediocre at times.

[XanatosVanBadass]

"DBZA is supplanting the actual series in the minds of fans, it's annoying!"

It ain't DBZA's fault that the main series can be so painfully mediocre at times.

I doubt a bunch of stupid YouTube comments spouting TFS memes counts as “supplanting” anything. The fans who do that are like the 9000+ meme lovers and the like. A tiny minority of the fans who watched the anime. Even then, they’re only the aggressively dumb US fanbase as has been stated.

[ABED]

and instead prefers a dub that pretends DB is something it isn't, or a fan parody that pretends DB is something it isn't. In other words, they want DB to be something it isn't, a fake dark show, or a fake stupid show.

Which is hilarious considering how much the dub "punched up" the scripts with their own brand of humor.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

"DBZA is supplanting the actual series in the minds of fans, it's annoying!"

It ain't DBZA's fault that the main series can be so painfully mediocre at times.

I doubt a bunch of stupid YouTube comments spouting TFS memes counts as “supplanting” anything. The fans who do that are like the 9000+ meme lovers and the like. A tiny minority of the fans who watched the anime. Even then, they’re only the aggressively dumb US fanbase as has been stated.

Every fan of a popular series has their own headcanon. I don't know why that's such a bad thing when it comes to Dragon Ball, especially since Toriyama himself has a fire and forget attitude towards story telling.

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

Disagree. Nothing about that dumb show is well made. The jokes aren't funny and the "performances" are amateurish in every way possible. They've had very little genuine impact beyond a few references that infected their way into Kai's dub, and the show is worse off for it. I feel like Mugatu at the end of Zoolander yelling why everyone can't see through it all. How the hell this dumb show got any sizeable fan base is beyond me.

It's not satirical, it's a parody. Satire has a point to make.

If all the series ever was seen as was an amusing fanmade parody, that would be fine, but for years, people insist on placing far too much importance on this series than it deserves. I'm not even talking about its quality.

100% this. TFS/DBZA is just a parody on YouTube made by a bunch of idiots who think they're funny but aren't. They may have had people online talking, but it isn't like they are the reason Toei decided to do anything more with Dragon Ball. The most they've managed to do is infect the Funi dub of Kai and Super with a few references to their shit. And there are the people who seriously think Goku is a bad father thanks to them, but whatever. I am 100% against what the OP of this thread thinks. They had nothing to do with the series's revival nor any influence. Even if they wanted to influence it, they couldn't have.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

TFS's influence on Dragon Ball's revival??? I have only watched Abridged from time to time and it's drawn a few chuckles from me on occasions with some of the jokes but not exactly something i've split my sides over or been heavily invested in watching with any great amount of frequency over the source itself, and basically amounts to being a total tongue in cheek humor based parody of the series no more no less. From what i've seen there's nothing that really jumps out as far as it bringing any significant stakes into the franchise's modern run of the last decade or so. It exists as a sometimes humorous diversion aside from the series itself, but i wouldn't go so far as to say that's contributed all that much as far as the revival itself goes.

[Peach]

Disagree. Nothing about that dumb show is well made. The jokes aren't funny and the "performances" are amateurish in every way possible. They've had very little genuine impact beyond a few references that infected their way into Kai's dub, and the show is worse off for it. I feel like Mugatu at the end of Zoolander yelling why everyone can't see through it all. How the hell this dumb show got any sizeable fan base is beyond me.

It's not satirical, it's a parody. Satire has a point to make.

If all the series ever was seen as was an amusing fanmade parody, that would be fine, but for years, people insist on placing far too much importance on this series than it deserves. I'm not even talking about its quality.

100% this. TFS/DBZA is just a parody on YouTube made by a bunch of idiots who think they're funny but aren't. They may have had people online talking, but it isn't like they are the reason Toei decided to do anything more with Dragon Ball. The most they've managed to do is infect the Funi dub of Kai and Super with a few references to their shit. And there are the people who seriously think Goku is a bad father thanks to them, but whatever. I am 100% against what the OP of this thread thinks. They had nothing to do with the series's revival nor any influence. Even if they wanted to influence it, they couldn't have.

I actually think the Abridged Series hurt Dragon Ball Z Kai. Funimation should have been cultivating a much bigger audience, but they got a fringe audience at best. The new generation of potential fans had a skewed idea of what Dragon Ball was, that it took 10 episodes to charge up, and thought thinking Abridged was the only way to bypass an aged anime. Free online fan made shorts circumvented an official release.

Team Four Star has irked me for a long time. They go to these conventions like Youmacon and act like rock stars. Get paid on patreon and convention fees as a way of circumventing their "non-profit" status. They don' license these characters at all, but use them to add brand awareness to let's plays like Krillin Plays, Vegeta Plays, and Nappa Plays.

[MasenkoHA]

I actually think the Abridged Series hurt Dragon Ball Z Kai. Funimation should have been cultivating a much bigger audience, but they got a fringe audience at best. The new generation of potential fans had a skewed idea of what Dragon Ball was, that it took 10 episodes to charge up, and turned to online entertainment. Thinking Abridged was the only way to bypass an aged anime.

No, airing Kai on Kidswb hurt Kai in the US. The average fan assumed Kai with Blue Popo and the glowing light orbs in place of halos, and the complete lack of blood and references to death was the actual Dragon Ball Z Kai. The eventual Adult Swim airings I think mostly fixed this mentality but before that any discussion of Kai online would inevitably have arguments brought against it that made it clear it was from people who weren’t aware that Kai had an “uncensored” form.

[Planetnamek]

Disagree. Nothing about that dumb show is well made. The jokes aren't funny and the "performances" are amateurish in every way possible. They've had very little genuine impact beyond a few references that infected their way into Kai's dub, and the show is worse off for it. I feel like Mugatu at the end of Zoolander yelling why everyone can't see through it all. How the hell this dumb show got any sizeable fan base is beyond me.

It's not satirical, it's a parody. Satire has a point to make.

If all the series ever was seen as was an amusing fanmade parody, that would be fine, but for years, people insist on placing far too much importance on this series than it deserves. I'm not even talking about its quality.

100% this. TFS/DBZA is just a parody on YouTube made by a bunch of idiots who think they're funny but aren't. They may have had people online talking, but it isn't like they are the reason Toei decided to do anything more with Dragon Ball. The most they've managed to do is infect the Funi dub of Kai and Super with a few references to their shit. And there are the people who seriously think Goku is a bad father thanks to them, but whatever. I am 100% against what the OP of this thread thinks. They had nothing to do with the series's revival nor any influence. Even if they wanted to influence it, they couldn't have.

Not liking them is one thing, but that does not make them "idiots", they have loads of talent and blaming them for Toei's own incompetence and laziness takes some serious mental gymnastics.

There were plenty of jokes about Goku being a bad father ages before DBZA was a thing as others on here have mentioned.

I actually think the Abridged Series hurt Dragon Ball Z Kai. Funimation should have been cultivating a much bigger audience, but they got a fringe audience at best. The new generation of potential fans had a skewed idea of what Dragon Ball was, that it took 10 episodes to charge up, and turned to online entertainment. Thinking Abridged was the only way to bypass an aged anime.

No, airing Kai on Kidswb hurt Kai in the US. The average fan assumed Kai with Blue Popo and the glowing light orbs in place of halos, and the complete lack of blood and references to death was the actual Dragon Ball Z Kai. The eventual Adult Swim airings I think mostly fixed this mentality but before that any discussion of Kai online would inevitably have arguments brought against it that made it clear it was from people who weren’t aware that Kai had an “uncensored” form.

I can speak truth to that from personal experience, I saw Kai was airing on Nick and I naturally assumed it was a more kid-friendly version of DBZ since Nick wasn't known for it's anime content like CN was, so I just ignored it at the time. It wasn't until years later that I found out the truth about Kai. The fact that Kai was already censored from original DBZ in Japan to begin with certainly did not help with the confusion amongst fans.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I actually think the Abridged Series hurt Dragon Ball Z Kai. Funimation should have been cultivating a much bigger audience, but they got a fringe audience at best. The new generation of potential fans had a skewed idea of what Dragon Ball was, that it took 10 episodes to charge up, and turned to online entertainment. Thinking Abridged was the only way to bypass an aged anime.

No, airing Kai on Kidswb hurt Kai in the US. The average fan assumed Kai with Blue Popo and the glowing light orbs in place of halos, and the complete lack of blood and references to death was the actual Dragon Ball Z Kai. The eventual Adult Swim airings I think mostly fixed this mentality but before that any discussion of Kai online would inevitably have arguments brought against it that made it clear it was from people who weren’t aware that Kai had an “uncensored” form.

Of course, this was despite the uncut version (even still with being somewhat already edited on Toei's end) isn't anything even remotely close to what these people believed it to be with seeing the even further cut CW/Toonzai/Vortexx version until the above happened. I mean, things like Mr. Popo being neon blue was exclusive to the latter because on Nicktoons' edit he was left as is.

[Peach]

I actually think the Abridged Series hurt Dragon Ball Z Kai. Funimation should have been cultivating a much bigger audience, but they got a fringe audience at best. The new generation of potential fans had a skewed idea of what Dragon Ball was, that it took 10 episodes to charge up, and turned to online entertainment. Thinking Abridged was the only way to bypass an aged anime.

No, airing Kai on Kidswb hurt Kai in the US. The average fan assumed Kai with Blue Popo and the glowing light orbs in place of halos, and the complete lack of blood and references to death was the actual Dragon Ball Z Kai. The eventual Adult Swim airings I think mostly fixed this mentality but before that any discussion of Kai online would inevitably have arguments brought against it that made it clear it was from people who weren’t aware that Kai had an “uncensored” form.

Dragon Ball Z Abridged started years before Kai. They were on the Frieza Arc before Funimation even casted Christopher Ayers.

Abridged was literally competing with an official retelling that was further behind for most of its run.

Abridged might have renewed a little interest online, but it hurt a multi-million dollar project that should have been the resurrection of Dragon Ball for a new generation.

[MasenkoHA]

There were plenty of jokes about Goku being a bad father ages before DBZA was a thing as others on here have mentioned.

Regardless of what influence TFS has or hasn’t had on the fandom and DBZ they’re a parody. They can’t really be blamed for their fandom’s stupidity.

This isn’t like Funimation skipping 140 episodes of Dragon Ball to get to DBZ, pushing an electronic techno rock score on Z, and completely rewriting Goku’s character to be a Japanese Superman with dialog straight out of Superfriends.

[Planetnamek]

Disagree. Nothing about that dumb show is well made. The jokes aren't funny and the "performances" are amateurish in every way possible. They've had very little genuine impact beyond a few references that infected their way into Kai's dub, and the show is worse off for it. I feel like Mugatu at the end of Zoolander yelling why everyone can't see through it all. How the hell this dumb show got any sizeable fan base is beyond me.

It's not satirical, it's a parody. Satire has a point to make.

If all the series ever was seen as was an amusing fanmade parody, that would be fine, but for years, people insist on placing far too much importance on this series than it deserves. I'm not even talking about its quality.

100% this. TFS/DBZA is just a parody on YouTube made by a bunch of idiots who think they're funny but aren't. They may have had people online talking, but it isn't like they are the reason Toei decided to do anything more with Dragon Ball. The most they've managed to do is infect the Funi dub of Kai and Super with a few references to their shit. And there are the people who seriously think Goku is a bad father thanks to them, but whatever. I am 100% against what the OP of this thread thinks. They had nothing to do with the series's revival nor any influence. Even if they wanted to influence it, they couldn't have.

I actually think the Abridged Series hurt Dragon Ball Z Kai. Funimation should have been cultivating a much bigger audience, but they got a fringe audience at best. The new generation of potential fans had a skewed idea of what Dragon Ball was, that it took 10 episodes to charge up, and thought thinking Abridged was the only way to bypass an aged anime. Free online fan made shorts circumvented an official release.

Team Four Star has irked me for a long time. They go to these conventions like Youmacon and act like rock stars. Get paid on patreon and convention fees as a way of circumventing their "non-profit" status. They don' license these characters at all, but use them to add brand awareness to let's plays like Krillin Plays, Vegeta Plays, and Nappa Plays.

They aren't acting like "rock stars" at all, people like you that degrade youtubers and act like what they are doing isn't a "real job" irk me.

Abridged didn't hurt jack shit.

[MasenkoHA]

Dragon Ball Z Abridged started years before Kai. They were on the Frieza Arc before Funimation even casted Christopher Ayers.



Abridged was literally competing with an official retelling that was further behind for most of its run.

Abridged might have renewed a little interest online, but it hurt a multi-million dollar project that should have been the resurrection of Dragon Ball for a new generation.

Thinking the abridged series had any impact on Kai’s viewership is just ridiculous.

[Peach]

100% this. TFS/DBZA is just a parody on YouTube made by a bunch of idiots who think they're funny but aren't. They may have had people online talking, but it isn't like they are the reason Toei decided to do anything more with Dragon Ball. The most they've managed to do is infect the Funi dub of Kai and Super with a few references to their shit. And there are the people who seriously think Goku is a bad father thanks to them, but whatever. I am 100% against what the OP of this thread thinks. They had nothing to do with the series's revival nor any influence. Even if they wanted to influence it, they couldn't have.

I actually think the Abridged Series hurt Dragon Ball Z Kai. Funimation should have been cultivating a much bigger audience, but they got a fringe audience at best. The new generation of potential fans had a skewed idea of what Dragon Ball was, that it took 10 episodes to charge up, and thought thinking Abridged was the only way to bypass an aged anime. Free online fan made shorts circumvented an official release.

Team Four Star has irked me for a long time. They go to these conventions like Youmacon and act like rock stars. Get paid on patreon and convention fees as a way of circumventing their "non-profit" status. They don' license these characters at all, but use them to add brand awareness to let's plays like Krillin Plays, Vegeta Plays, and Nappa Plays.

They aren't acting like "rock stars" at all, people like you that degrade youtubers and act like what they are doing isn't a "real job" irk me.

Abridged didn't hurt jack shit.

I'm not degrading them. I think they're very talented.

I've been to panels where there are hundreds of people in the audience. I've seen how they acted. The egos they were showing disgusted me. They acted like the event was wrestlemania. I really don't appreciate how they competed with Kai, which was struggling to cultivate viewers, while telling us "to go support the official release." I don't like how they overshadow the real company at conventions and try to elevate themselves to the same status.

[MasenkoHA]

I really don't appreciate how they competed with Kai, which was struggling to cultivate viewers, while telling us "to go support the official release." I don't like how they overshadow the real company at conventions and try to elevate themselves to the same status.

Kai aired on a kids channel that was targeting 5-12 year olds. Abridged target audience was high schoolers/young adults who grew up with Z. They were hardly competing. You’re creating a competition that never existed.

Also I’m pretty sure Kai did just fine with its Kidswb and Nicktoons audience. The ones the edited for broadcast airings were actually aimed at.

[Planetnamek]

I actually think the Abridged Series hurt Dragon Ball Z Kai. Funimation should have been cultivating a much bigger audience, but they got a fringe audience at best. The new generation of potential fans had a skewed idea of what Dragon Ball was, that it took 10 episodes to charge up, and thought thinking Abridged was the only way to bypass an aged anime. Free online fan made shorts circumvented an official release.

Team Four Star has irked me for a long time. They go to these conventions like Youmacon and act like rock stars. Get paid on patreon and convention fees as a way of circumventing their "non-profit" status. They don' license these characters at all, but use them to add brand awareness to let's plays like Krillin Plays, Vegeta Plays, and Nappa Plays.

They aren't acting like "rock stars" at all, people like you that degrade youtubers and act like what they are doing isn't a "real job" irk me.

Abridged didn't hurt jack shit.

I'm not degrading them. I think they're very talented.

I've been to panels where there are hundreds of people in the audience. I've seen how they acted. The egos they were showing disgusted me. They acted like the event was wrestlemania. I really don't appreciate how they competed with Kai, which was struggling to cultivate viewers, while telling us "to go support the official release." I don't like how they overshadow the real company at conventions and try to elevate themselves to the same status.

Oh please, a fan parody is not "competing" with an official show, that's ludicrous, those guys do not have massive egos and they are not trying to "elevate themselves" at all. I don't know where you get this warped mindset.