Why don't the movies fit into canon?

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:16 pm

Duo wrote:I can forgive the lack of Boo and Mr. Satan, so really, Movie 13 is the only one I accept into the realm of Anime Canon. Conan would be proud of me.

Edit: This is, by no means, ANY indication that I dislike any of the movies at all whatsoever. I love the movies and I watch them much more often than the series DVD's. I am just boggled by why people want to detract from them by trying to make them something they are not, which is a canonical part of the central story. Let them be what they are! Fun side-stories that dont' really fit!

I am proud, I am, good to see you as a manga purist can have one acception.

I gotta say, I do agree with you about the movies being side/what-if stories that don't fit, but this mainly pertains to the manga in my opinion. I mean, when taking into the account the anime isn't supposed to be a carbon copy of the manga (in other words, an adaptation), I think it's plausible to at least try and fit a few of the movies in specific moments; especially when particular moments of the anime are kinda forcing it. More or less I try fitting as much as I can (the four above movies I pointed out, the TV specials, all filler, and GT too) so that in my own anal retentive way, I can have as epic and "perfect" a canon of the anime as possible, at least from my own point of view. With the anime, it's open to interpretation IMO what fits and what doesn't simply because Toei made the anime that confusing (the same can be said for SSJ2 instances). For the manga, at least there with the Kanzenban, we know it's one direct continuity with nothing else involved (possible exceptions being the Bardock special and the Dr. Slump manga).

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:17 pm

Eh, I don't have any real potential. I'm just a guy who favors the Manga over the Anime more than the average fan, that's all.

1,000 posts is a big accomplishment for me because I read about 10 times more than I post. I don't post unless I feel I have a good reason to. This means no offense to the likes of Rick and Ssj Kaboom, they just have more to say about things than I do.

What's fun is to go into your own posting history and then jump back 30 pages.

EDIT

Conan wrote:I am proud, I am, good to see you as a manga purist can have one acception.

Yay! It's ironic that, despite how technically opposed we should be on things, we end up having so many similarities. Maybe it's just because you're that cool. Seriously.

Conan wrote:I gotta say, I do agree with you about the movies being side/what-if stories that don't fit, but this mainly pertains to the manga in my opinion. I mean, when taking into the account the anime isn't supposed to be a carbon copy of the manga (in other words, an adaptation), I think it's plausible to at least try and fit a few of the movies in specific moments; especially when particular moments of the anime are kinda forcing it. More or less I try fitting as much as I can (the four above movies I pointed out, the TV specials, all filler, and GT too) so that in my own anal retentive way, I can have as epic and "perfect" a canon of the anime as possible, at least from my own point of view. With the anime, it's open to interpretation IMO what fits and what doesn't simply because Toei made the anime that confusing (the same can be said for SSJ2 instances). For the manga, at least there with the Kanzenban, we know it's one direct continuity with nothing else involved (possible exceptions being the Bardock special and the Dr. Slump manga).

I used to be terribly against the Anime and quite unable to enjoy it because I tried to hold it to the "perfect adaptation" standard. When I learned to look at it differently, I was able to gain an even greater appreciation for the entire world of Dragonball much moreso than when I discovered the Manga. Neither side is perfect but both bring amazing aspects to the table. I really wouldn't want the Manga or the Anime changed, I love both of them now. I just enjoy the Manga's pacing, story telling, and artwork a tad more, but I love the voices and overall sounds and movement visuals of the Anime too. I can't get it all with just one side.

Eh, I'm ranting now.

The point? Dragonball owns us all.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:37 pm

Duo wrote:This means no offense to the likes of Rick and Ssj Kaboom

None taken.

Duo wrote:they just have more to say about things than I do.

Not really, actually; for the most part, I'm just a goofball who likes to make bad attempts at being funny any chance I get. Like now, for instance. The result is a high post count.

I'm surprised I don't get reprimanded more often, actually. It's probably because my grammar, spelling, and general etiquette are so above average.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:42 pm

My sudden interest in One Piece is making me question my DragonBall fandom.. you'll be seeing less and less of me as the days go by. I might even act my age every once and a while...

That 1337 post shall be my

last..
-Rick

Last Son of Krypton · Post by **Last Son of Krypton** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:06 pm

I have a question about movie #9. How could movie 9 fit into the continuity if during the 7 years after Cell's defeat it was a time of peace? I mean, wouldn't Goku know about Bojack considering he punched him in the face and saved Gohan?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:59 pm

Last Son of Krypton wrote:I have a question about movie #9. How could movie 9 fit into the continuity if during the 7 years after Cell's defeat it was a time of peace? I mean, wouldn't Goku know about Bojack considering he punched him in the face and saved Gohan?

Bojack was supposedly sealed up in King Kai's planet, I believe, and it was Cell's blowing the place up when Goku brought him there that let him loose. How he got put there in the first place is unknown, as well as how he got back to the "living realm." Goku only learned of Bojack when he started causing trouble on Earth.

Last Son of Krypton · Post by **Last Son of Krypton** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:44 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
Last Son of Krypton wrote:I have a question about movie #9. How could movie 9 fit into the continuity if during the 7 years after Cell's defeat it was a time of peace? I mean, wouldn't Goku know about Bojack considering he punched him in the face and saved Gohan?
Bojack was supposedly sealed up in King Kai's planet, I believe, and it was Cell's blowing the place up when Goku brought him there that let him loose. How he got put there in the first place is unknown, as well as how he got back to the "living realm." Goku only learned of Bojack when he started causing trouble on Earth.

I know that Bojack was sealed, but how could there be 7 years of peace if movie 9 happened? Wouldn't that take movie 9 out of the continuity?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:52 pm

Well, "peaceful" doesn't necessarily mean "uneventful." One or two localized, over-with quickly incidents like Bojack's meddling wouldn't keep it from still counting as a "time of peace" I guess.

Last Son of Krypton · Post by **Last Son of Krypton** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:54 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Well, "peaceful" doesn't necessarily mean "uneventful." One or two localized, over-with quickly incidents like Bojack's meddling wouldn't keep it from still counting as a "time of peace" I guess.

I see what you mean. Still, a galactic threat like Bojack and his crew should count as a peace breaker

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:01 pm

Not when handled so decisively and l33tly by SSj2 Gohan as it was.

Henchmen: "Gyaaaah! Our entrails!"

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:16 am

If I don't watch movie10 today, I'm probably frustrated by something that is most likely computer related.

Are we all agreed that the DB movies don't fit into DB continuity? (All of them seem to be retellings that would totally contradict the canon if they were accepted).

Which reminds me of a line at the end of the Freeza saga in Funimation's dub, where I distinctly remember the narrator calling Chaozu a Young Emperor? Though the only place that seems to have been a piece of character was DB movie3. ?

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:42 pm

caejones wrote:Are we all agreed that the DB movies don't fit into DB continuity? (All of them seem to be retellings that would totally contradict the canon if they were accepted).

Exactly. Having just recently re-watched them, I can assure you they in no way could fit into the original story as-is.

The Legend of Shen Long (Curse of the Blood Rubies): Emperor Pilaf and co. are replaced by King Gurumes and his seemingly vast militaristic empire (with similarities to a certain colored army). The first wish is used to rid the land of blood rubies rather than Oolong's wish for panties.

Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle: Goku and Kuririn's test by Kame-Sen'nin for training is changed from simply bringing back a "pichi-pichi" girl to finding the "sleeping princess". Other than contradicting the original version of how Goku met Lunch, there's nothing that would explictely exclude this movie from fitting in however.

Mystical Adventure: Oh geez, where to begin. Chaozu replaces the dog Monarch as Emperor, with Tsuru-Sen'nin as his advisor and Tao Pai-Pai as his general. (General Tao...ugh.) The Red Ribbon Army doesn't exist, and Blue and Major Mettalic are both part of King Castle's military.

The Path to Power: Other than writing Pilaf out of the story and Android No. 8 coming to Goku's rescue against Assistant Black, it's pretty true to the story. But still a re-write nontheless.

GI_Judd2287 · Post by **GI_Judd2287** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:07 pm

On a side note, what was up with Ciaotzu's "wife" in DB Movie #3? It was a doll. Does he lead a sexually deviant life style?

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:32 pm

They were going with "He looks 3... he might marry a doll...".

Of course 20 years later he's still the same size... perhaps he had a nasty tumor and surgery and couldn't afford growth hormone? (well, if he was the emperor he could...).

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:12 am

How Movie 7 could happen:

-Bulma doesn't know where Gero's lab is, so the Z Fighters can't track him at all. Gero gets back to his lab in peace.
-Gero awakens 17 and 18, who then kill him in the opening scene. 16 is not awakened, so 17 and 18 don't go after Goku. They apparently then blend back into society well enough/live out in the woods far enough that they're no longer important.

-Gero got away, but the Z Fighters know he's still alive. They stay on alert for a while, but eventually give up the search and go their separate ways. Goku recovers from the heart virus, but ChiChi prevents him from going with Trunks to the future until she's sure he's well. In the meantime, Trunks tags along with them, enjoying peaceful days for once.

-The computer (re)builds 13, 14, and 15, possibly under a signal from Gero in case of his death.

-Movie 7 occurs.