Asian characters in Dragon Ball

[Polyphase Avatron]

Goku and the other Saiyans can't be Asians because they come from a different planet with different continents. However, yeah, it makes sense for Goku to be coded as East Asian.
Aslo, are there really people who actually say shit like "Goku is a white person"?

I've absolutely heard this argument. People are convinced that certain anime characters are "white" because they don't feature specific Asian features. Never mind that the origins of DB is asian, and that its world has always been based on Chinese/Japanese mythology.


Reminds me of a line from an essay I once read about this very issue: "Even when it's fake, we want it white."

There are few white anime/manga protagonists. The first two Jojos, Jonathan and Joseph Joestar, are explicitly British.

I have heard people say that Guts from Berserk is 'white', but you can't really say for sure because he comes from a fantasy world without the familiar nations and such.

ONE, the author of One Punch Man, has said that certain characters 'would be' certain ethnicities/nationalities 'if they were real', for example Saitama = Japanese, Suiryu = Italian, Choze = Russian, Amai Mask = Korean.

[MyVisionity]

I would by and large look for anyone who's relatively tan and muscular (with some exception), and either has naturally spiky hair, or make their hair spiky with a hair stylist.

No I don't have to choose a race, nor would I.

Regardless of Toriyama's art style, would you really cast any person from any background, just so long as they look the part?

If so, would his name still be Son Gokū? Still have a tail? Still riding the Kinto cloud around the Chinese countryside, still mixing it up with Yamcha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan et al. and Kung-fu battles around the world?

Because if so, it's gonna be a problem if you cast a non-Asian, especially a White person, in the role.

Race isn't just about what someone looks like.

[jjgp1112]

Goku and the other Saiyans can't be Asians because they come from a different planet with different continents. However, yeah, it makes sense for Goku to be coded as East Asian.
Aslo, are there really people who actually say shit like "Goku is a white person"?

I've absolutely heard this argument. People are convinced that certain anime characters are "white" because they don't feature specific Asian features. Never mind that the origins of DB is asian, and that its world has always been based on Chinese/Japanese mythology.


Reminds me of a line from an essay I once read about this very issue: "Even when it's fake, we want it white."

There are few white anime/manga protagonists. The first two Jojos, Jonathan and Joseph Joestar, are explicitly British.

I have heard people say that Guts from Berserk is 'white', but you can't really say for sure because he comes from a fantasy world without the familiar nations and such.

ONE, the author of One Punch Man, has said that certain characters 'would be' certain ethnicities/nationalities 'if they were real', for example Saitama = Japanese, Suiryu = Italian, Choze = Russian, Amai Mask = Korean.

Oda did the same for One Piece. Luffy would be Brazilian, Nami would be Swedish, Sanji would be French, Zoro would be Japanese, Usopp and Brook would be black, Franky would be American, and Chopper would be Canadian.

[Jaetinh]

Toriyama just decided to make everything about him East Asian inspired except for his race?

As far as we can tell, yes. Because he's an alien. You understand that an alien can crash-land anywhere on Earth?

You didn't answer the question. You had to choose a race.

No I don't have to choose a race, nor would I. And that is the answer to the question.

The facts are there. Saiyans are described as people with yellow skin, black hair and black eyes.

When have Saiyans ever been described as having yellow skin? And for that matter, why are Asians even described as having yellow skin? That description of Asians is beyond me.

If Kryptonians are white and black people, the Saiyans are Asians. If Kryptonians are based on white and black people, Saiyans are based on Asians.

Kryptonians aren't based on any particular race of humans. They're just based on humans.

And let's make something clear about Superman. Literally the only reason we can say he looks white is because of the art style of comics. Very realistically drawn faces, proportion-wise in western comics. That's the only reason. It's not because Superman is made by an American company, or happened to crash-land in America in his story, or because he took on American culture, or wears American clothing. It's solely because of the art style of comics.

You can't make the same point with Goku and Dragon Ball because Dragon Ball is drawn in a highly stylized way.

He was introduced as an alien that landed on Earth in volume 17, doesn't erase the fact that he was human prior to that. Son Goku was never introduced as an alien. Tenshinhan is a human with three eyes and Goku was a human with a monkey tail because he was based on the Chinese Monkey King. When have Saiyans ever been described as having yellow skin? Didn't you read any of the stuff I wrote in the OP? It was written in one of the guidebooks released in the 90's, the Daizenshuu books. Then let's make something clear about Goku. Anime characters will never look as realistic in terms of appearance like comics. So what factors do you take into consideration when judging what race the character is supposed to be? It's still easy to point out what race a character is supposed to be if the information is there. You look at the appearance, name, surroundings and basically every cultural aspect in the show which indicates it as well as the cultural aspects outside of the show. Everything written in the OP points towards him being an Asian character, why are you being so ignorant? I'm repeating myself over and over again because you're being ignorant and delusional. I get that it's difficult for people to accept that Son Goku isn't this white American superhero that you thought he was because of the Funi dub you grew up with. Fact is that Dragon Ball didn't start with Z, Goku isn't a white American superhero and Goku was never written as an alien at the beginning. I don't care if that's what you were led to believe because that's not reality. We can keep going like this but we'll get absolutely nowhere.

[Melee_Sovereign]

doesn't erase the fact that he was human prior to that.

It does, actually. Because that's how fictional continuity works. He was always an alien. He was never human. Him being introduced as an alien much later in the series, means that changes things retroactively.

Then let's make something clear about Goku. Anime characters will never look as realistic in terms of appearance like comics.

That's not true. There's plenty of animes that have a more realistic style than Dragon Ball.

So what factors do you take into consideration when judging what race the character is supposed to be?

If they're an alien, then solely what they look like. If they're human, then I can consider the setting they're in.

You look at the appearance, name, surroundings and basically every cultural aspect in the show which indicates it as well as the cultural aspects outside of the show.

I don't think you can look at the cultural surrounding if the character happens to be an alien.

An alien can crash-land anywhere on Earth. Goku took on an Asian-like culture, because he happened to crash-land in an Asian-like setting. If Superman, a Caucasian-looking alien, happened to crash-land in Asia, he would have taken on their culture, wore their clothing and spoke their language. He would still look Caucasian though.

I get that it's difficult for people to accept that Son Goku isn't this white American superhero that you thought he was because of the Funi dub you grew up with.

I never said I thought Goku looked white either. Although some Saiyans like Nappa do. But I think Saiyans, by-and-large, look like their own ethnicity.

But I don't appreciate having words put in my mouth. So please don't do it again.

[Melee_Sovereign]

I would by and large look for anyone who's relatively tan and muscular (with some exception), and either has naturally spiky hair, or make their hair spiky with a hair stylist.

No I don't have to choose a race, nor would I.

Regardless of Toriyama's art style, would you really cast any person from any background, just so long as they look the part?

If so, would his name still be Son Gokū? Still have a tail? Still riding the Kinto cloud around the Chinese countryside, still mixing it up with Yamcha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan et al. and Kung-fu battles around the world?

Because if so, it's gonna be a problem if you cast a non-Asian, especially a White person, in the role.

Race isn't just about what someone looks like.

Yes.

And by that rationale, Piccolo would have to be cast as a green asian.

[Jaetinh]

doesn't erase the fact that he was human prior to that.

It does, actually. Because that's how fictional continuity works. He was always an alien. He was never human. Him being introduced as an alien much later in the series, means that changes things retroactively.

Then let's make something clear about Goku. Anime characters will never look as realistic in terms of appearance like comics.

That's not true. There's plenty of animes that have a more realistic style than Dragon Ball.

So what factors do you take into consideration when judging what race the character is supposed to be?

If they're an alien, then solely what they look like. If they're human, then I can consider the setting they're in.

You look at the appearance, name, surroundings and basically every cultural aspect in the show which indicates it as well as the cultural aspects outside of the show.

I don't think you can look at the cultural surrounding if the character happens to be an alien.

An alien can crash-land anywhere on Earth. Goku took on an Asian-like culture, because he happened to crash-land in an Asian-like setting. If Superman, a Caucasian-looking alien, happened to crash-land in Asia, he would have taken on their culture, wore their clothing and spoke their language. He would still look Caucasian though.

I get that it's difficult for people to accept that Son Goku isn't this white American superhero that you thought he was because of the Funi dub you grew up with.

I never said I thought Goku looked white either. Although some Saiyans like Nappa do. But I think Saiyans, by-and-large, look like their own ethnicity.

But I don't appreciate having words put in my mouth. So please don't do it again.

If they're human you would look at other aspects, yes? Then yeah like I said, Goku was written as a human until volume 17 by Toriyama and therefore he would be Asian. Unless Toriyama planned on making him an alien from the beginning - which he didn't since there's absolutely nothing that indicates that, then point proven. In the mind of the author, he was written and drawn as an Asian human being until he later decided to create an alien race based on Goku and thereby making the Saiyans Asian inspired/looking aliens.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I don't see why aliens couldn't have multiple ethnic groups like humans do.

[MasenkoHA]

and thereby making the Saiyans Asian inspired/looking aliens.

I would argue Goku is supposed to look Asian. And by extension Bardock, Raditz and Gine. And maybe Vegeta. But I don’t think all Saiyans necessarily need to look Asian. Nappa could appear caucasian.

[Jaetinh]

Nappa looks white to you while he looks Asian to me. If the Saiyans had multiple ethnic groups they would most likely have had different hair and eye colours just like Earthlings are described. Toriyama decided to make them a homogenous race with his description of them.

[jjgp1112]

"Well Goku was always an alien" is a rather myopic way of looking at it. Goku was still coded as an intrinsically Asian character for 195 chapters before he was an Alien and his character traits that are literally lifted from a Chinese folk tale are then applied to an entire homogenous race. Every way you look at, they're Asian-coded Aliens breh

[ABED]

I understand the concept of coding but where does the term come from? I can't find it in a google search.

[Zephyr]

Goku was still coded as an intrinsically Asian character for 195 chapters before he was an Alien and his character traits that are literally lifted from a Chinese folk tale are then applied to an entire homogenous race. Every way you look at, they're Asian-coded Aliens breh

Not just a Chinese folk tale, but two of the world's most well-known Chinese actors as well!

[MyVisionity]

I would by and large look for anyone who's relatively tan and muscular (with some exception), and either has naturally spiky hair, or make their hair spiky with a hair stylist.

No I don't have to choose a race, nor would I.

Regardless of Toriyama's art style, would you really cast any person from any background, just so long as they look the part?

If so, would his name still be Son Gokū? Still have a tail? Still riding the Kinto cloud around the Chinese countryside, still mixing it up with Yamcha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan et al. and Kung-fu battles around the world?

Because if so, it's gonna be a problem if you cast a non-Asian, especially a White person, in the role.

Race isn't just about what someone looks like.

Yes.

And by that rationale, Piccolo would have to be cast as a green asian.

This doesn't make much sense. Piccolo is not human. Nor does he have an Asian name or is based off of an Asian character.

And by "yes", I take it you mean you would indeed cast a non-Asian, even a White person, as Goku? Racism be damned?

[Melee_Sovereign]

If they're human you would look at other aspects, yes?

Yes, and it's important to note why. Reason being that a human in an Asian-like setting is most likely a native of that setting. An alien is definitely not a native.

Unless Toriyama planned on making him an alien from the beginning - which he didn't since there's absolutely nothing that indicates that, then point proven. In the mind of the author, he was written and drawn as an Asian human being until he later decided to create an alien race based on Goku and thereby making the Saiyans Asian inspired/looking aliens.

Doesn't matter what Toriyama planned or what he had in his mind. The only thing that matters is in-universe consistency. In-lore, Goku was always an alien. That being a later reveal means, even retroactively, he was never human.

Nappa looks white to you while he looks Asian to me. If the Saiyans had multiple ethnic groups they would most likely have had different hair and eye colours just like Earthlings are described. Toriyama decided to make them a homogenous race with his description of them.

You're confusing ethnicity with race.

China alone, for example, has multiple ethnic groups. Africa has thousands of ethnic groups.

And what constitutes an ethnic group doesn't necessarily come down to just hair and eye color. And in fact, it doesn't just come down to physical features. Different ethnicities can look almost identical.

[Melee_Sovereign]

This doesn't make much sense. Piccolo is not human. Nor does he have an Asian name or is based off of an Asian character.

Goku is also not human. His birthparents didn't give him an Asian name. And being based off of an Asian character doesn't make that character Asian. Monkey from Enslaved: Odyssey to the West is based on the same character Goku is, and he's not Asian.

And by "yes", I take it you mean you would indeed cast a non-Asian, even a White person, as Goku? Racism be damned?

Yes if they happen to be able to pull off the look. And there's nothing racist about that, because you're talking about a fictional ethnic group of people, that also happens to be extraterrestrial.

Although for that matter, it isn't even wrong if you're talking about a real ethnic group. Al Pacino who is Italian, for example, plays a Cuban in Scarface.

[jjgp1112]

This doesn't make much sense. Piccolo is not human. Nor does he have an Asian name or is based off of an Asian character.

Goku is also not human. His birthparents didn't give him an Asian name. And being based off of an Asian character doesn't make that character Asian. Monkey from Enslaved: Odyssey to the West is based on the same character Goku is, and he's not Asian.

And by "yes", I take it you mean you would indeed cast a non-Asian, even a White person, as Goku? Racism be damned?

Yes if they happen to be able to pull off the look. And there's nothing racist about that, because you're talking about a fictional ethnic group of people, that also happens to be extraterrestrial.

Although for that matter, it isn't even wrong if you're talking about a real ethnic group. Al Pacino who is Italian, for example, plays a Cuban in Scarface.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that Goku's character and appearance is based off 1) a Chinese folk character and 2) a famous Chinese actor and that the Saiyan race's characteristics are literally copy/pasted from Goku's?

If there was an alien race of characters who happened to look like black guys all based off Anansi or some other African folk character...well I'd expect a black people to play them even though "They're aliens." You can't be obtuse about it.

[MyVisionity]

His birthparents didn't give him an Asian name. And being based off of an Asian character doesn't make that character Asian. Monkey from Enslaved: Odyssey to the West is based on the same character Goku is, and he's not Asian.

It doesn't matter whether it was his birth name or not. He is primarily known by an Asian name.

I didn't say that being based off of an Asian character makes a character Asian. I said that being based off of an Asian character makes it more likely that the character should be played by an Asian.

From the looks of that game, the Monkey character is in no way "human" like Goku and the Saiyans are. More of a humanoid beast similar to Piccolo. But more importantly, it looks like that game bears little resemblance to Journey to the West in terms of culture, unlike with DB.

And by "yes", I take it you mean you would indeed cast a non-Asian, even a White person, as Goku? Racism be damned?

Yes if they happen to be able to pull off the look. And there's nothing racist about that, because you're talking about a fictional ethnic group of people, that also happens to be extraterrestrial.

Although for that matter, it isn't even wrong if you're talking about a real ethnic group. Al Pacino who is Italian, for example, plays a Cuban in Scarface.

It doesn't matter how fictional they are. The racism comes into play when you have non-Asian actors playing characters with Asian names based off of Asian figures doing Asian things in Asian settings dreamt up by an Asian author. And so on. It's not just about the look.

Not a Scarface expert, but it seems like Tony Montana possibly has some kind of Italian ancestry, given the name and character origins. But aside from any of that, who says Pacino playing Cuban isn't wrong? I can certainly see how questionable it is for an English speaking Italian-American to be playing a Cuban immigrant. Additionally, the case of a "White" American playing a "White" Latino is a far cry from non-Whites like Asians being played by non-Asians.

[Hellspawn28]

and thereby making the Saiyans Asian inspired/looking aliens.

I would argue Goku is supposed to look Asian. And by extension Bardock, Raditz and Gine. And maybe Vegeta. But I don’t think all Saiyans necessarily need to look Asian. Nappa could appear caucasian.

If the Saiyan saga was adapted into a live action movie, I could see someone like The Rock playing Nappa. The only DB characters that I could see being caucasian are Bluma, Dr. Gero, #16, #18 and Mr. Satan.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I don't get where people are getting the 'Bulma is white' idea from.