Do you prefer to watch the censored or uncensored version of Dragon Ball?

[MyVisionity]

Is Dragon Ball really even Dragon Ball without the sexual perversion? Are Roshi and Oolong the same characters without the lechery?

I suppose I can understand why many fans dislike the sexual assault scenes, but won't the children and new fans eventually discover those aspects of the series in an unedited version? How long will they be kept in the dark?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Ahem, like dear old KBABZ said that version is MEANT TO INTRODUCE kids into Dragon Ball. When they are ready they can watch the real version when they are older.

[KBABZ]

Is Dragon Ball really even Dragon Ball without the sexual perversion? Are Roshi and Oolong the same characters without the lechery?

Are... are you defending sexual assault?!? Look, this approach would be fine if Dragon Ball was some older audience-oriented story about love and/or sex and how not to do it (like Mengae A3), but Dragon Ball is an action-comedy story for kids. Sexual perversion has NO place in Dragon Ball.

Oolong drops his perverted antics after the 21st TB and nobody ever complains about it; he's a layabout who hangs around with the rest of the Dragon Ball Gang. That's a weak-ass character even if he were up to his old ways. Roshi meanwhile has much stronger characterization as a retired martial artist: all of his best scenes are while training Goku and Krillin, and later on he gets some all-time great scenes with Tien and Piccolo Daimao. He would lose NOTHING if the sexual perversion angle was removed.

I suppose I can understand why many fans dislike the sexual assault scenes, but won't the children and new fans eventually discover those aspects of the series in an unedited version? How long will they be kept in the dark?

They would for sure, but that's for when they're older and they can understand that it's not the right thing to do. I realize the parents can do that, but let's be honest, everyone here would prefer if Dragon Ball did not have sexual assault in it in the first place.

[MasenkoHA]

Is Dragon Ball really even Dragon Ball without the sexual perversion? Are Roshi and Oolong the same characters without the lechery?

Yes. We lose nothing by not showing Roshi groping women without their consent or Oolong drugging a girl to feel her up.

You can have Roshi look at girly magazines and get his rocks off to suggestive jazzercise tapes and go gaga over pretty girls without making him a sex offender

[Arteaga4K]

Uncut, always
The old CN broadcast-dub edits are fun to watch when I feel like going on a nostalgic trip but when I'm rewatching a show fully, uncut subbed only (or dubbed if I'm watching Kai).

[MyVisionity]

Is Dragon Ball really even Dragon Ball without the sexual perversion? Are Roshi and Oolong the same characters without the lechery?

Are... are you defending sexual assault?!? Look, this approach would be fine if Dragon Ball was some older audience-oriented story about love and/or sex and how not to do it (like Mengae A3), but Dragon Ball is an action-comedy story for kids. Sexual perversion has NO place in Dragon Ball.

Oolong drops his perverted antics after the 21st TB and nobody ever complains about it; he's a layabout who hangs around with the rest of the Dragon Ball Gang. That's a weak-ass character even if he were up to his old ways. Roshi meanwhile has much stronger characterization as a retired martial artist: all of his best scenes are while training Goku and Krillin, and later on he gets some all-time great scenes with Tien and Piccolo Daimao. He would lose NOTHING if the sexual perversion angle was removed.

I don't think you can really separate sexual perversion from Dragon Ball. It just seems too woven into the series to me. You could argue that DB being an action-comedy for kids is precisely why the sexual perversion is so fitting. Children love perverted things. And not only is it a source of humor, but it also imbues the story with a certain kind of energy that fuels the martial arts action that drives it. Whether it's actually appropriate or not is a different matter.

I won't defend the sexual assault, but I do think the characters lose something if you take away their lechery entirely.

For instance, some of my favorite Roshi/Oolong scenes are the ones like when Bulma is sunbathing and they each try and go after her with the lotion, but of course they don't succeed. Or the classic bathroom scene with Roshi and the shrinking device. And of course the infamous Oolong in the camper scene early on. These scenes all highlight the perverted aspects of the characters without having them actually go through with the assaulting.

Additionally, I think that Roshi becomes a more rounded character when you include his perversion. It makes the character stronger, not weaker. Him simply being a wise old martial arts master doesn't cut it. And you said it yourself about Oolong, he's just a layabout in the background ordinarily. So why take away any of his defining characteristics? The character needs whatever he can get.

[Planetnamek]

Is Dragon Ball really even Dragon Ball without the sexual perversion? Are Roshi and Oolong the same characters without the lechery?

Are... are you defending sexual assault?!? Look, this approach would be fine if Dragon Ball was some older audience-oriented story about love and/or sex and how not to do it (like Mengae A3), but Dragon Ball is an action-comedy story for kids. Sexual perversion has NO place in Dragon Ball.

Oolong drops his perverted antics after the 21st TB and nobody ever complains about it; he's a layabout who hangs around with the rest of the Dragon Ball Gang. That's a weak-ass character even if he were up to his old ways. Roshi meanwhile has much stronger characterization as a retired martial artist: all of his best scenes are while training Goku and Krillin, and later on he gets some all-time great scenes with Tien and Piccolo Daimao. He would lose NOTHING if the sexual perversion angle was removed.

I don't think you can really separate sexual perversion from Dragon Ball. It just seems too woven into the series to me. You could argue that DB being an action-comedy for kids is precisely why the sexual perversion is so fitting. Children love perverted things. And not only is it a source of humor, but it also imbues the story with a certain kind of energy that fuels the martial arts action that drives it. Whether it's actually appropriate or not is a different matter.

I won't defend the sexual assault, but I do think the characters lose something if you take away their lechery entirely.

For instance, some of my favorite Roshi/Oolong scenes are the ones like when Bulma is sunbathing and they each try and go after her with the lotion, but of course they don't succeed. Or the classic bathroom scene with Roshi and the shrinking device. And of course the infamous Oolong in the camper scene early on. These scenes all highlight the perverted aspects of the characters without having them actually go through with the assaulting.

Additionally, I think that Roshi becomes a more rounded character when you include his perversion. It makes the character stronger, not weaker. Him simply being a wise old martial arts master doesn't cut it. And you said it yourself about Oolong, he's just a layabout in the background ordinarily. So why take away any of his defining characteristics? The character needs whatever he can get.

You can make him lecherous without going into outright creepy territory though, just him gawking at magazines and videos is more then enough, you don't need him attempting to grope Bulma and things like that. That's just not funny or charming to me and makes me think less of him as a character, frankly that's one aspect of anime in general that I never liked. It was especially icky for Raye's grandpa in Sailor Moon and i'm eternally grateful to DiC for changing that aspect of him as I felt like that made him a better character. Sorry but in the MeToo era that kind of thing just comes off as more unsettling then humorous and I don't think it makes them stronger in the least.

Kids love it isn't a very good defense as kids seeing this sort of thing might potentially influence them to try it in real life(kids also love picking their nose but that's not the sort of thing you want to encourage them to do), so can't really blame Saban for not wanting to keep that aspect of the characters.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Are... are you defending sexual assault?!? Look, this approach would be fine if Dragon Ball was some older audience-oriented story about love and/or sex and how not to do it (like Mengae A3), but Dragon Ball is an action-comedy story for kids. Sexual perversion has NO place in Dragon Ball.

Oolong drops his perverted antics after the 21st TB and nobody ever complains about it; he's a layabout who hangs around with the rest of the Dragon Ball Gang. That's a weak-ass character even if he were up to his old ways. Roshi meanwhile has much stronger characterization as a retired martial artist: all of his best scenes are while training Goku and Krillin, and later on he gets some all-time great scenes with Tien and Piccolo Daimao. He would lose NOTHING if the sexual perversion angle was removed.

I don't think you can really separate sexual perversion from Dragon Ball. It just seems too woven into the series to me. You could argue that DB being an action-comedy for kids is precisely why the sexual perversion is so fitting. Children love perverted things. And not only is it a source of humor, but it also imbues the story with a certain kind of energy that fuels the martial arts action that drives it. Whether it's actually appropriate or not is a different matter.

I won't defend the sexual assault, but I do think the characters lose something if you take away their lechery entirely.

For instance, some of my favorite Roshi/Oolong scenes are the ones like when Bulma is sunbathing and they each try and go after her with the lotion, but of course they don't succeed. Or the classic bathroom scene with Roshi and the shrinking device. And of course the infamous Oolong in the camper scene early on. These scenes all highlight the perverted aspects of the characters without having them actually go through with the assaulting.

Additionally, I think that Roshi becomes a more rounded character when you include his perversion. It makes the character stronger, not weaker. Him simply being a wise old martial arts master doesn't cut it. And you said it yourself about Oolong, he's just a layabout in the background ordinarily. So why take away any of his defining characteristics? The character needs whatever he can get.

You can make him lecherous without going into outright creepy territory though, just him gawking at magazines and videos is more then enough, you don't need him attempting to grope Bulma and things like that. That's just not funny or charming to me and makes me think less of him as a character, frankly that's one aspect of anime in general that I never liked. It was especially icky for Raye's grandpa in Sailor Moon and i'm eternally grateful to DiC for changing that aspect of him as I felt like that made him a better character. Sorry but in the MeToo era that kind of thing just comes off as more unsettling then humorous and I don't think it makes them stronger in the least.

Kids love it isn't a very good defense as kids seeing this sort of thing might potentially influence them to try it in real life(kids also love picking their nose but that's not the sort of thing you want to encourage them to do), so can't really blame Saban for not wanting to keep that aspect of the characters.

Another example of this thing i recall is the scene of the old pervy guy in the Pokemon episode "Beauty and the Beach" (You know, the one that got banned from the initial run of Season 1 and wasn't dubbed until Orange Islands was initially airing because of James'/Kojiro's fake boobs suit) clearly gawking at Misty and 4Kids tried their best to cover it up by changing the dialogue to have him say "You remind me of my granddaughter" whereas in the Japanese version he was saying to Kasumi "It would be more fun if you were eight years older" or some such and it's pretty clear that he's hitting on her. Honestly, i'm surprised that 4Kids didn't just cut out that part entirely because even with the dialogue change you can see what's going on with his blushing and everything else, kind of like the creepy scene with General Blue and Obotchaman in Dragon Ball. Even with the "long lost brother" rewrite the visuals still give away what's actually happening there.

[Planetnamek]

I don't think you can really separate sexual perversion from Dragon Ball. It just seems too woven into the series to me. You could argue that DB being an action-comedy for kids is precisely why the sexual perversion is so fitting. Children love perverted things. And not only is it a source of humor, but it also imbues the story with a certain kind of energy that fuels the martial arts action that drives it. Whether it's actually appropriate or not is a different matter.

I won't defend the sexual assault, but I do think the characters lose something if you take away their lechery entirely.

For instance, some of my favorite Roshi/Oolong scenes are the ones like when Bulma is sunbathing and they each try and go after her with the lotion, but of course they don't succeed. Or the classic bathroom scene with Roshi and the shrinking device. And of course the infamous Oolong in the camper scene early on. These scenes all highlight the perverted aspects of the characters without having them actually go through with the assaulting.

Additionally, I think that Roshi becomes a more rounded character when you include his perversion. It makes the character stronger, not weaker. Him simply being a wise old martial arts master doesn't cut it. And you said it yourself about Oolong, he's just a layabout in the background ordinarily. So why take away any of his defining characteristics? The character needs whatever he can get.

You can make him lecherous without going into outright creepy territory though, just him gawking at magazines and videos is more then enough, you don't need him attempting to grope Bulma and things like that. That's just not funny or charming to me and makes me think less of him as a character, frankly that's one aspect of anime in general that I never liked. It was especially icky for Raye's grandpa in Sailor Moon and i'm eternally grateful to DiC for changing that aspect of him as I felt like that made him a better character. Sorry but in the MeToo era that kind of thing just comes off as more unsettling then humorous and I don't think it makes them stronger in the least.

Kids love it isn't a very good defense as kids seeing this sort of thing might potentially influence them to try it in real life(kids also love picking their nose but that's not the sort of thing you want to encourage them to do), so can't really blame Saban for not wanting to keep that aspect of the characters.

Another example of this thing i recall is the scene of the old pervy guy in the Pokemon episode "Beauty and the Beach" (You know, the one that got banned from the initial run of Season 1 and wasn't dubbed until Orange Islands was initially airing because of James'/Kojiro's fake boobs suit) clearly gawking at Misty and 4Kids tried their best to cover it up by changing the dialogue to have him say "You remind me of my granddaughter" whereas in the Japanese version he was saying to Kasumi "It would be more fun if you were eight years older" or some such and it's pretty clear that he's hitting on her. Honestly, i'm surprised that 4Kids didn't just cut out that part entirely because even with the dialogue change you can see what's going on with his blushing and everything else, kind of like the creepy scene with General Blue and Obotchaman in Dragon Ball. Even with the "long lost brother" rewrite the visuals still give away what's actually happening there.

Yeah I saw that lost episode last year and I was legitimately shocked that 4Kids even allowed that much in.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

You can make him lecherous without going into outright creepy territory though, just him gawking at magazines and videos is more then enough, you don't need him attempting to grope Bulma and things like that. That's just not funny or charming to me and makes me think less of him as a character, frankly that's one aspect of anime in general that I never liked. It was especially icky for Raye's grandpa in Sailor Moon and i'm eternally grateful to DiC for changing that aspect of him as I felt like that made him a better character. Sorry but in the MeToo era that kind of thing just comes off as more unsettling then humorous and I don't think it makes them stronger in the least.

Kids love it isn't a very good defense as kids seeing this sort of thing might potentially influence them to try it in real life(kids also love picking their nose but that's not the sort of thing you want to encourage them to do), so can't really blame Saban for not wanting to keep that aspect of the characters.

Another example of this thing i recall is the scene of the old pervy guy in the Pokemon episode "Beauty and the Beach" (You know, the one that got banned from the initial run of Season 1 and wasn't dubbed until Orange Islands was initially airing because of James'/Kojiro's fake boobs suit) clearly gawking at Misty and 4Kids tried their best to cover it up by changing the dialogue to have him say "You remind me of my granddaughter" whereas in the Japanese version he was saying to Kasumi "It would be more fun if you were eight years older" or some such and it's pretty clear that he's hitting on her. Honestly, i'm surprised that 4Kids didn't just cut out that part entirely because even with the dialogue change you can see what's going on with his blushing and everything else, kind of like the creepy scene with General Blue and Obotchaman in Dragon Ball. Even with the "long lost brother" rewrite the visuals still give away what's actually happening there.

Yeah I saw that lost episode last year and I was legitimately shocked that 4Kids even allowed that much in.

I'm also surprised they allowed that part to remain in the dub, yet the bit at the beauty contest with James' fake breasts is what got it banned from airing here for two whole years when they could've just cut it from the start rather than waiting and doing so after the fact. Even with them changing the dialogue the visuals just give away what's really happening, it's like the infamous "cousins" in the Cloverway dub of Sailor Moon S where Haruka/Amara and Michiru/Michelle despite being rewriten as relatives rather than lesbians all the scenes of other characters blushing in their presence and getting a little too touchy feely is so obvious in a laughably hilarious way.

[KBABZ]

I don't think you can really separate sexual perversion from Dragon Ball. It just seems too woven into the series to me.

Fundamental disagree. Dragon Ball Z features it VERY intermittently and the story, world and characters lose nothing for it. It's completely unnecessary.

[MyVisionity]

I don't think you can really separate sexual perversion from Dragon Ball. It just seems too woven into the series to me.

Fundamental disagree. Dragon Ball Z features it VERY intermittently and the story, world and characters lose nothing for it. It's completely unnecessary.

That's the Z-era though. The series had obviously evolved by that time. Just because it can be removed from one era doesn't mean it can be removed from another era. How would the first half of the series fare without the perversion? Could that even work?

And as I said, the series had evolved by the Z-era. Which means that it had developed based off of years of sexual perversion. It was already in its DNA. It's only unnecessary because the story, world, and characters have it built-in by that point. Just because it might not appear on the surface doesn't mean it's not there.

[Shaddy]

Actually, Dragon Ball doesn't have "eras". It's one story that was published every week for 519 chapters. There's no hard line where you can say it was needed on one side and not another.

[KBABZ]

I don't think you can really separate sexual perversion from Dragon Ball. It just seems too woven into the series to me.

Fundamental disagree. Dragon Ball Z features it VERY intermittently and the story, world and characters lose nothing for it. It's completely unnecessary.

That's the Z-era though. The series had obviously evolved by that time. Just because it can be removed from one era doesn't mean it can be removed from another era. How would the first half of the series fare without the perversion? Could that even work?

Yes, incredibly easily in fact. If you remove all the sexual perversion from the story, the ONLY place where that becomes an issue is revealing The Invisible Man. Anything else like Bulma offering Goku a peek in exchange for his Dragon Ball, Roshi asking to look at Bulma's panties for his Dragon Ball, Oolong going upstairs to rape Bulma, Roshi trying to lift Launch's skirt from under the table, and so-on, can ALL be removed without affecting the story in any way. The sexual perversion is never important to the story and they're always these weird non-sequitor scenes that are frustrating to sit through, because Toriyama/Toei decided to waste time on this shit rather than ANYTHING else.

And to be quite honest, it's disturbing that you're clinging on to this opinion and are willing to die on that hill, as if removing it will fundamentally unravel Dragon Ball's integrity.

[MyVisionity]

Fundamental disagree. Dragon Ball Z features it VERY intermittently and the story, world and characters lose nothing for it. It's completely unnecessary.

That's the Z-era though. The series had obviously evolved by that time. Just because it can be removed from one era doesn't mean it can be removed from another era. How would the first half of the series fare without the perversion? Could that even work?

Yes, incredibly easily in fact. If you remove all the sexual perversion from the story, the ONLY place where that becomes an issue is revealing The Invisible Man. Anything else like Bulma offering Goku a peek in exchange for his Dragon Ball, Roshi asking to look at Bulma's panties for his Dragon Ball, Oolong going upstairs to rape Bulma, Roshi trying to lift Launch's skirt from under the table, and so-on, can ALL be removed without affecting the story in any way. The sexual perversion is never important to the story and they're always these weird non-sequitor scenes that are frustrating to sit through, because Toriyama/Toei decided to waste time on this shit rather than ANYTHING else.

I don't mean that the plot itself wouldn't unfold without the perversion, of course it would. But the characters wouldn't be the same characters without it. And if the characters are not the same characters then certainly the story is not the same story. The series would not radiate the same kind of energy. And you need that energy to balance out and justify all of the martial arts action and adventure. Just like the comedy balances out the drama.

Isn't Roshi all about living an enjoyable life to the fullest? It's part of his martial arts philosophy. And for him, a big part of enjoying life is enjoying hot young ass. Take away that, then you take away a part of why he fights. And take away why he fights, then how can he ever inspire Goku and Kuririn, the main characters of the series?

This is who these characters are. This is who Toriyama/Toei wanted them to be. They are perverts or friends of perverts, but they go out and fight the martial arts anyway in spite of, and/or because of it. They are not one-dimensional and have different sides to them. I believe that's what makes the characters and their world work so well. They are full of quirks and flaws and contradictions.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Fuck off with that bullshit. I understand respecting Toriyama's vision but showing that to children and have them embrace rape or sexual assault as FUNNY? Hahahaha NO.

[Shaddy]

I think it's subjective what does and doesn't count as a part of Dragon Ball's "identity". If you think the show is just not itself without some of its creepier antics, I can't tell you you're literally wrong, but I don't like that take and I think most reasonable people would say the show is not really worse without it.

Like, you may notice that there's still a ton of amazing content adapting and/or inspired by HP Lovecraft's work, and it doesn't ever usually need to include all the horrible racism.

[ABED]

You can pull on the sexism thread without ruining the sweater. I don't mind pervy Roshi but they don't have to do it in such a way that anyone would have reason to feel unsafe around him.

[KBABZ]

I don't mean that the plot itself wouldn't unfold without the perversion, of course it would. But the characters wouldn't be the same characters without it. And if the characters are not the same characters then certainly the story is not the same story. The series would not radiate the same kind of energy. And you need that energy to balance out and justify all of the martial arts action and adventure. Just like the comedy balances out the drama.

Isn't Roshi all about living an enjoyable life to the fullest? It's part of his martial arts philosophy. And for him, a big part of enjoying life is enjoying hot young ass. Take away that, then you take away a part of why he fights. And take away why he fights, then how can he ever inspire Goku and Kuririn, the main characters of the series?

This is who these characters are. This is who Toriyama/Toei wanted them to be. They are perverts or friends of perverts, but they go out and fight the martial arts anyway in spite of, and/or because of it. They are not one-dimensional and have different sides to them. I believe that's what makes the characters and their world work so well. They are full of quirks and flaws and contradictions.

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

[MasenkoHA]

That's the Z-era though. The series had obviously evolved by that time. Just because it can be removed from one era doesn't mean it can be removed from another era. How would the first half of the series fare without the perversion? Could that even work?

Yes, incredibly easily in fact. If you remove all the sexual perversion from the story, the ONLY place where that becomes an issue is revealing The Invisible Man. Anything else like Bulma offering Goku a peek in exchange for his Dragon Ball, Roshi asking to look at Bulma's panties for his Dragon Ball, Oolong going upstairs to rape Bulma, Roshi trying to lift Launch's skirt from under the table, and so-on, can ALL be removed without affecting the story in any way. The sexual perversion is never important to the story and they're always these weird non-sequitor scenes that are frustrating to sit through, because Toriyama/Toei decided to waste time on this shit rather than ANYTHING else.

I don't mean that the plot itself wouldn't unfold without the perversion, of course it would. But the characters wouldn't be the same characters without it. And if the characters are not the same characters then certainly the story is not the same story. The series would not radiate the same kind of energy. And you need that energy to balance out and justify all of the martial arts action and adventure. Just like the comedy balances out the drama.

Isn't Roshi all about living an enjoyable life to the fullest? It's part of his martial arts philosophy. And for him, a big part of enjoying life is enjoying hot young ass. Take away that, then you take away a part of why he fights. And take away why he fights, then how can he ever inspire Goku and Kuririn, the main characters of the series?

This is who these characters are. This is who Toriyama/Toei wanted them to be. They are perverts or friends of perverts, but they go out and fight the martial arts anyway in spite of, and/or because of it. They are not one-dimensional and have different sides to them. I believe that's what makes the characters and their world work so well. They are full of quirks and flaws and contradictions.

Sexual assault isn’t a quirk