Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 79 - Official Discussion Thread

[Dragmobot12]

My definitive prediction for this arc:

-Granolah dies
-Oatmeel hijacks OG-73
-OG-73(Oatmeel) absorbs Granolah and reanimates him in his new Baby lookalike form

Yeah, I guess this will be the cliffhanger which I believe will happen, "Baby Granolah."

[Lionel]

I actually enjoyed the chapter. To some degree there was a subversion of the normal mechanics as Gas is chronologically the topmost bestowed holder of the title of strongest. Yes he hasn't familiarised himself with his abilities which Granolah had issue with before but was able to hone them somewhat in his prior fight against the Saiyans. Technical aptitude is proving to be important here but only insomuch as the two sides are roughly comparable to each other. Gas could qualify as the "strongest" in a similar vein that Freeza his most suppressed form would boast an advantage against Vegeta during their brief scuffle. It's not a gap that's insurmountable with the right abilities, skill, and conditions like a numerical edge. Of course I could be proven wrong here in the upcoming chapters.

There hasn't been as much intrigue in these chapters as of late for myself as well. Granolah reminded me of Yukishiro Enishi from Rurouni Kenshin somewhat whom I really like but that's petered out with the lack of any significant progress. So far this has been a fairly self-contained arc like Broly which wasn't even showcased in manga format.

[TheGodfather93]

That Namekian seriously needs to die of old age, because those Dragon Balls are busted beyond belief, and I think it was a mistake to write them into the story.

Anyway, this chapter bored the absolute crap out of me. I already wasn't feeling either Granolah or Gas, and the fact that they cheated their way to GoD+ levels of strength makes me even less invested in them. Now they're busting out moves like IT, and even more alarmingly, Hakai? That's just annoying, and I say this as someone who's sick of Goku and Vegeta always hogging the spotlight.

I will admit though, I skimmed through 80% of the fight because Toyotaro's fight choreography does very little for me. Sometimes he makes it work, but this fight just felt bland, like it had no substance to it whatsoever.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

So I read the chapter this morning, went about my day, then hopped on the forum only to completely forget that I even read the chapter until I saw this thread.

Damn near nothing happened. Granolah and Gas fight and the chapter ends with the fight continuing. I expect way more significant things to happen in each chapter of a monthly serialisation. Even the actual fight was kinda lame. It's very dissappointing after how exciting Vegeta vs Granolah was.

I think Toyotarou needs to chill out with the amount of panels he draws for small details like a zoom in on a character or someone's reaction.

Spoiler:

It just takes up so much space to tell such a basic expression. Less is more when it comes to Dragon Ball's manga.

It kinda sucks when we get a lame chapter since this manga only releases once a month. Ah well, hopefully next month is better.

[Luso Saiyan]

Not to mention the (bad) exposition. The same thing explained three times...

[Jiren The Alpha]

Goku getting annoyed that those 2 is better at using Instantaneous Movement then him feels out of characters and just feels like Toyotaro trying to hype up his fanfic characters. But i do like that a new character is fighting the main villain.

[batistabus]

On some level, I agree with the general criticism that things have been drawn out, but this chapter was a breeze to read. How long it it take to read? Five minutes? Certainly less than the average chapter. The action is fast paced and has fantastic flow. Not all chapters all the same, and not all pages spent on movement, framing, cinematic zooms, or fighting in general are a waste. So if your criticism of pacing boils down to having to wait another month for something else to happen (which isn't everyone's criticism)...patience is a virtue. I hate to say this kind of thing, but there's a chance it'll play better on a reread. It shouldn't have to, but I think people get caught up in the moment, impatient, lost in internet hype, etc.

I don't think Uchida did the manga any favors by saying the Granolah arc was approaching its climax, even though his statement was pretty vague and meant to draw interest for a new upcoming arc...

[Koitsukai]

I think Toyotarou needs to chill out with the amount of panels he draws for small details like a zoom in on a character or someone's reaction.

Spoiler:

It just takes up so much space to tell such a basic expression. Less is more when it comes to Dragon Ball's manga.

It kinda sucks when we get a lame chapter since this manga only releases once a month. Ah well, hopefully next month is better.

Yeah, this.

Last chapter ended with Geets giving Granny a senzu, and this one spends a whole page with Granny grabbing it, staring at it, eating it and being amazed by it, and Geets giving him a farewell. A whole page.

I'm also re-reading the Cell arc, and Toriyama never had a problem using 4 panels to have 5 fighters eating a senzu, learning what happened while there were KO'd and moving on. Learn from a professional, kid.
Toriyama would've started this chapter with a FP Granola already doing something, saving Monaito or Goku, or both. The audience does not need to SEE Granola receiving, eating, commenting and uploading a pic of the senzu on Instagram, we are not dogs. The fight starts quarter a chapter in, this chapter shits on the previous chapter's cliffhanger.

[Mr Baggins]

So if your criticism of pacing boils down to having to wait another month for something else to happen (which isn't everyone's criticism)...patience is a virtue. I hate to say this kind of thing, but there's a chance it'll play better on a reread.

I agree that's an oversimplified way of looking at it. As you say, it isn't everyone's criticism.

When I critique the pacing, I'm referring to how the narrative distributes its content. For one thing, all these repetitive cliffhangers and plot points are bad. But also, going through page counts this lengthy on a fight that isn't really doing anything with the characters, or at least the ones that matter, will not make that fight fare any better on re-reads (at least based on what's happening so far). My re-read of the previous arc did nothing to improve the flow of that story for me, either.

As Magnificent Ponta puts it, for what it is, it's awfully extravagant. It's excessive.

Of the many criticisms I have of the Moro arc, a prominent one is that there's this big filler portion somewhere in the middle that focuses on the Earthlings beating up random goons. It was terribly inconsequential and overly self-indulgent for the story being told. While Gas is more significant than Moro's henchmen - though not by much, in my view, and I delved into that in last month's thread - I largely feel the same about this part of the arc. It's just showcasing a bunch of empty hii-yahs and epic videogame attacks. I get it, Toyotaro's choreography has improved and it's fun, but action alone is not why I read Dragon Ball.

Look at Elec, for example. Ever wonder why everyone's curiosity is focused on his actions, even though he's not really doing much and has been stringing the reader along since forever? It's because he's a hook for the story. He's relevant, and not just to the surface plot.

"Can we please move on already?" is my general reaction to this bout, but less so because it's slow (although that's a part of it) and more so because it's pointless right now.

[MCDaveG]

Damn, such a borefest. Also, I have noticed how Toyotaro seriously fills the pages with unnecesary action panels. You can delete two per page in the whole chapter, as it is usually unnecesary character reaction or in-between “frame”.
And also Toyotaro doesn’t really tells a story, it is just visuals of Toriyama-like characters. Kill it, kill it now.

Gas can create weapons somehow as he wants to use his own powers… and the two action figures duke it out.
I guess, I can go check some fan arts to see more interesting and exciting stuff.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I don't think Uchida did the manga any favors by saying the Granolah arc was approaching its climax, even though his statement was pretty vague and meant to draw interest for a new upcoming arc...

I can't speak for anyone else, but that's certainly true for me.

Even though I knew beforehand that the Chapter was going to be very 'light' on narrative (even though there are some threads in the Chapter that draw some neat 'effects' from the 'causes' established in previous fights in the arc which I mentioned further up the thread, and I could continue to press the argument from the last topic that there's continued Heeter unit tension shown here, by Gas basically refusing to live up to the wish planned out for him by Elec - which is another beat I enjoyed - all that still isn't as much as there should be), I'd just thought, 'oh, well, at least I can look forward to more good action in this arc, here's hoping that however many Chapters are left will fill in the extra narrative elements this particular chapter is lacking, it'll all come good'. I can't disagree with other people's criticisms of the pacing/plotting, but it didn't feel like a huge deal. A missed opportunity, maybe.

But the announcement came in and stepped all over my potential enjoyment of the Chapter by making it feel like the wrong chapter at the wrong time; the arc's now ostensibly on a very short fuse with a lot still to do, and the knowledge of that means that any Chapter that isn't doing its bit to push the narrative forward feels to me like a Chapter that is actively robbing from the final impact of the arc as a whole. Even though I know objectively that previous arcs managed to do a lot when one considers where they were at 4 Chapters away from their respective conclusions (Zamas had just fused; Gohan had just squared up to Kefla; Merus had just arrived on the battlefield), they also had less left to do, and had actually done more by that point. The possibility that this arc's full potential could yet be inhibited by Chapters like the current one worries me because at this time, it feels very finely-balanced as to whether the Granolah arc will actually end up as a good arc broadly well-told, or just as an arc with some good bits in.

The announcement has had the effect of taking me out of the story, I guess is what I'm saying.

[emperior]

Yeah this was terribly paced. I don’t know what’s wrong with Toyotaro. The panelling also still has useless in-between frames but the fight was cool and the drawings are at least nice.

But this is totally on Toyotaro. I don’t care if he must answer to his editor and Toriyama. He should be able to make it more interesting and this just was not. It was boring, forgettable, and won’t be better on re-reads because it’s just filler which accomplished nothing besides being a cool battle between what are, basically, two OCs of Toyotaro.

There should have been more dialogue, and an ending which at least moves the story forward a little bit. Granolah has the upper hand? Fine, clearly show it by the end. As of now it is not clear at all.

And I am afraid that the next chapter will still be half fight, then some small story progress, and then a cliffhanger.

The announcement of this being the climax didn’t help either. How the heck are they supposed to wrap everything up in a bunch of chapters, especially if things are going at this pace? Will the next arc be a “Heeters arc”? Can this end already so that maybe the next arc can possibly be written by Toriyama and be a post-EoZ story?

I am losing interest in this arc and probably the movie’s close release and that announcement are the reasons for it.

[TKA]

I've become so disinterested that I forgot a chapter came out yesterday.

I think I'm done with this arc. It's far too boring and paint-by-the-numbers. 40+ pages and the only things of note is that Gas finally is developing a character and the last batch of action-only chapters just translates into the plot point that Ganolah now has more experience wielding big ki.

See y'all next month.

[Cipher]

I feel like I read a different comic than most people this month. The energy and pacing of the fight, along with Gas’ unique use of weapons, made it I thought a contender for the series’ best fight—if not taking that title outright. It’s also refreshing to see a fight involving two strongest characters who aren’t Goku or Vegeta, which we haven’t seen since the original run.

I also thought the structure of the fight worked quite well—we get just enough out of Gas’ first bag of tricks to establish what he’s about and how Granolah has the upper hand, then just enough once he gives in to the need to use his newly acquired abilities to establish what’s going on there. The return of a Goku vs. Hit-sequels out-prediction gag with the teleportation battle (which is used to establish Granolah possibly having an edge in comfort with with finer techniques) is also a delight, and executed visually even better here than it was in the Goku vs. Hit fight.

Granolah is likable so I’m interested in seeing him step into battle, and even Gas is made engaging in that his hangups hinge on his relationship to Granolah and to the rest of his family—more interesting characters than him, but they lift him up enough to pull me into what he brings to the battle motivation-wise.

It is “just” 40 pages of action, but I’ve rarely been so delighted by 40 pages of action in a month of DBS. If we’re headed into the true climax already (however drawn out it gets, as DB climaxes are wont to), I think there’s already enough on the table for a satisfying short, Battle of Gods 7 (or whatever number now)-styled arc in the vein of Toriyama’s first three Super storylines (as executed in the manga, where the ToP is also fairly compact).

[Mr Baggins]

I'd consider Goku vs. Jiren to be the manga's best fight. Not just in terms of choreography, but also as a two-way conversation between multiple characters.

This extended skirmish just says a lot of things about Toyotaro's plotting; none of them good.

[Cipher]

I'd consider Goku vs. Jiren to be the manga's best fight. Not just in terms of choreography, but as a two-way conversation between multiple characters.

This extended skirmish just says a lot of things about Toyotaro's plotting; none of them good.

Goku vs. Jiren and Vegeta vs. Granolah are my other contenders, and I’d still put Chapter 41 (vs. Jiren) on top as a chapter overall, for its general pacing, including the pacing and balance of characterization within the fight itself.

I do feel like I’m suddenly on a different planet than most fans if people aren’t enjoying this month’s fight in the way they might have enjoyed any previous fights in DB though. This was fun stuff, and a high bar for Super. It almost feels like people are determined to not enjoy any of the action in the series for its own sake. I thought the expression of character dynamics through the action this time around was, like Goku vs. Jiren and Vegeta vs. Granolah, pretty high up there as well.

Also, it’s a fantasy martial arts series and sometimes fun action is the story, and etc.

Not looking forward to people taking the "that looks like destruction" line to mean "that looks like destruction (but it isn't)".

To get ahead of anything like that, the Japanese is even less ambiguous.

今度は破壊か

“Now he’s using Destruction?” (Viz’s wording makes perfect sense as dialogue and hits the tone; just noting for any nitpicking.)

[PurestEvil]

I've become so disinterested that I forgot a chapter came out yesterday.

I think I'm done with this arc. It's far too boring and paint-by-the-numbers. 40+ pages and the only things of note is that Gas finally is developing a character and the last batch of action-only chapters just translates into the plot point that Ganolah now has more experience wielding big ki.

See y'all next month.

I am a bit confused...are you trying to be ironic/witty or are these your genuine thoughts? No offense.

[kemuri07]

I'm still holding to the "this is going to flow a lot better once the arc is complete" because the big issue here is that we're only getting 30+ pages a month, and I think its pretty clear that we're no where near finish with this arc. This feels like a set up for the "real arc." The problem is waiting for that shoe to drop, ESPECIALLY, when we have to wait a month every time. So I get the disappointment.

As far as the actual chapter is concerned: I enjoyed it quite a bit. I don't care much for Gas as a villain, but I do like his Green Lantern abilities, and there are some fun visual stuff throughout. I really dug Granola here, and I think Toyo makes him look particularly awesome. I have a feeling That battle damage look is going to be a fan favorite for male cosplayers. He's a cool looking character.

[LoganForkHands73]

I love a simple flash-in-the-pan martial arts fight as much as anyone but I prefer it when something substantial is actually happening story-wise complemented by the epic action. As much as the previous Saiyans vs. Granola battles were criticised on those grounds, I was enthralled by the character dynamics at play there. There was some psychologically heavy shit there, especially by Dragon Ball standards. Combined with everything leading up to the fight, it was hands down the best analysis of Vegeta's psyche since the original manga.

Hate to be a downer but this really is nothing in comparison. Gas's whole dilemma of only wanting to use his natural gifts to beat Granola falls completely flat because until this chapter, we had no idea that he had these powers at all.

[TKA]

I am a bit confused...are you trying to be ironic/witty or are these your genuine thoughts? No offense.

I mean I don't care enough about this arc anymore to get into discussions about it. I'll tune in when the next chapter is out because I won't be sticking around to talk about it.