Are you satisfied with the way DBZ ended?

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Mr.Piccolo
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Post by Mr.Piccolo » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:41 am

I'll talk about how Vegeta was one to look down upon but for now, I'm just going to point out that it has been said that Piccolo was one of Toriyama's favorites. 8)
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Acid_Reign
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Post by Acid_Reign » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:45 am

KinoFourpaws wrote:
Acid_Reign wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:Vegeta was also one of Toriyama's least favorite character.
Why was that? Couldn't he just have written him more favorably? :P
Maybe he really liked all of his other main characters and just needed someone to hate on in the story. :lol: Or maybe he just intended him to be a villain who got killed off after a while, but fans liked him too much, so he was forced to include him in the rest of the story. Would you really like it if you had to keep writing about someone you only meant to give a bit part to? :|
I can see that, actually. It'd be like keeping Freeza alive because he was too popular. Ha, imagine that.

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Post by KinoFourpaws » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:50 am

Acid_Reign wrote:
KinoFourpaws wrote:
Acid_Reign wrote: Why was that? Couldn't he just have written him more favorably? :P
Maybe he really liked all of his other main characters and just needed someone to hate on in the story. :lol: Or maybe he just intended him to be a villain who got killed off after a while, but fans liked him too much, so he was forced to include him in the rest of the story. Would you really like it if you had to keep writing about someone you only meant to give a bit part to? :|
I can see that, actually. It'd be like keeping Freeza alive because he was too popular. Ha, imagine that.
Imagine that, indeed... actually, I think the idea's also been beaten to death by a lot of fans, and Toei, too, judging by his reappearances in several of the movies. Hoh boy. @_@
Mr.Piccolo wrote:I'll talk about how Vegeta was one to look down upon but for now, I'm just going to point out that it has been said that Piccolo was one of Toriyama's favorites. 8)
-Rick
Well, then... maybe Toriyama just didn't feel like he needed a Piccolo rip-off stuck into the story (that being Vejita). Piccolo was pretty much Dragonball's original major badass. :lol:
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Post by Conan the SSJ » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:57 am

On topic, my thoughts. Of course I'm satisfied with how the anime ended in GT, giving a perfect closing ending to the story of Goku and his family, while also leaving the door open for his descendant to carry on defending the Earth. Also with GT, Goku had a very good reason for leaving his family at the end; the ambiguous deal he made with Shenlong in exchange for the last wish to revive the victims of the negative consequences of the Dragonballs. Rather than acting out on his selfish Saiyan desires and training a 10 year old stranger, Goku's final decision was selfless and truly embodying the person he really was, considering he could have just as well stayed with his family rebuilding the new utopia. DBZ's ending didn't leave me satisfied, just wanting more, while GT left me complete in a very good way.

However, there's more. For those whom forget or don't know, this is how I would've been perfectly satisfied with DBZ ending, taking the possible route Akira Toriyama originally planned with Gohan defeating Buu (only to change his mind at the last second for Goku to save the day). This would of course leave the door closed for movie 13 and the GT series, but IMO would leave me just as complete as GT's ending.
Conan the SSJ wrote:If it were me determining things, I'd still have Buu absorb Gotenks and Piccolo, but rather than Goku getting Elder Kaioshin's life-energy reservoir, I'd just keep Tenshinhan coming to Gohan's rescue. Because of that and Dende doing some healing, Gohan would hold out against Buu long enough for the interior fusion separation. Then Gohan and Super Buu (w/t Piccolo, Goten and Trunks) in a seemingly equally-matched fight.

It could end with Buu holding Dende hostage to attempt to get Gohan to give himself up for absorption, but Gohan plays a trick on Buu where similar to Vegetto, he shields himself just as Buu absorbs him and ends up unmerged inside Buu's head (rather than his stomach or whatever Vegetto ended up). Then Gohan would proceed to detach Piccolo and the boys (everyone waking up as Gohan removes them rather than staying in comas), causing Buu to go back to his normal Evil/Super self. With Gohan and everyone escaping, he prepares for one final battle with Buu. Charges up a Kamehame-Ha, promising Buu his death will be quick and painless if he lets Dende go.

Mr. Satan, who's watching this whole thing from a bush, springs out in front of Gohan preparing his blast, screaming at Buu for what he's doing, saying "There's no point in any of this!!" With this striking a cord within Buu's suppressed memories, the fat Buu's personality slightly shows through as a tear courses from his eye and he utters "...Sa--tan...". His arms a bit weak from the realization that his former best friend is right in front of him, Dende manages to slip out and get out of the way. Gohan launches his attack at Buu who puts up a shield powerful enough to destroy the entire planet if it keeps growing.

With Buu struggling, Gohan reaches into his deepest latent powers. Buu, now completely devoid of his fat Buu personality from this struggle, mocks Gohan "Bwahahaha!! What will you do, from the power you were using in our last fight, it won't be enough to break this shield. It's more powerful than even my own self-destruction was!!" With this realization, we get a short cut to Kaioshin's world as Goku looks on, urging his son to break through (not talking to him through telepathy or anything). Gohan suddenly breaks out a sly grin, now proclaiming to Buu "Didn't you know, when you had beat me to near death, my power skyrocketed; when Dende healed me, it was as if a whole new giga essence was within me. I am a 'Saiyan', afterall. Now prepare yourself Majin Buu, this ENDS NOW!!"

Suddenly Gohan's eyes proceed to turn Emerald Green as his upmost power is released (he doesn't go SSJ though) and the massive Kamehame-Ha turns from Blue to Golden to White, enveloping Buu and consuming every last trace of him. Shocked by this sight, Mr. Satan falls to his knees sad this creature whom almost became good, his best friend, is now gone; though bucks up a bit remembering what he did to Videl and the entire planet mumbling "That bastard got what he deserved..." Now, Gohan appears as though he's gonna collapse, similar to when he defeated Cell and Bojack, but just falls to one knee and stands right back up. Gohan suddenly hears a telepathic message from his Father, simply telling him "See, son? You were nowhere near needing my help, and at last your true destiny has been fulfilled. Give your brother and Mom my best, I'll be waiting for you guys..."

4-6 Months later, we see Gohan and the boys summoning Shenlong, whom revives all those who've died since Babidi's arrival, except for the most evil ones. Unfortunately not all of them were revived, as quite a few had been revived by some of the previous wishes over the years. We then get a look at Kuririn in the Other World talking to Goku on Grand Kaio's planet. Goku asks "Are you sad you can't be there to raise Marron?" Kuririn replies "Kind of, but 18 will be good to her. Besides, Goten's turning out well without his Dad, and at least now I don't have to die anymore!" The two laugh and begin sparring, we're then brought to the lower regions of Hell where Vegeta sits Indian style mediating, apparently he has his body but couldn't be revived as Shenlong once brought him back, and he simply lets a "...Hmm..." as we're brought back to Earth a year or so later.

Gohan and Videl have just graduated high-school and are sitting together at a fountain in Satan City. They talk to each other about various things, the recent battle with Buu, how they'll be going to college, and at last confess how much they love each other. Gohan shows her a ring, to which Videl doesn't answer but just hugs him excitedly. They then hold hands and Gohan calls Kinto-'Un. Many citizens of the city seeing the couple ride off on the golden cloud, Gohan no longer cares about the exposure, as he has truly become his Father's son. Gohan and Videl ride Kinto-'Un over beautiful, near CGI looking forest/mountain terrains as the Narrator exclaims "And thus ends a legacy beginning with a small mountain boy living alone in desolation -- Culminating with his elder son beginning a true normal life" And a flashback, very similar to the end of GT, takes place. A first portion focusing on Goku's adventures while a second portion focuses on Gohan's.

The Narrator continues "In these times of peace, the shadow of evil may still loom. But even so, a once ruthless infant alien raised as a gentle Earthling has left a dynasty that will always be around to protect our humble planet. Two sons that have surpassed his own power (Goten with fusion), as well as a future Granddaughter down the road of fate, this new generation of Z warriors will lead planet Earth into a divine era of peace and prosperity."

Finally, with that said, Gohan and Videl land at 439 district where Chichi is drying cloths and Goten and Trunks are sparring. Chichi looks down at Videl's hand, the viewer doesn't actually see the ring there, but we do see Chichi look up at her son with happy tears in her eyes. She hugs her son and future daughter-in-law together, the camera pans up from the small Son house to the beautiful blue sky, and the Narrator finishes "Farewell, Son Gohan, your story, as well as your Father's, will live in our hearts forever."

"The End"
Conan the SSJ wrote:
Rocketman wrote:Also, Roshi couldn't be revived by Shenron.
I suppose...he'd get a reference by Goku and Kuririn as "being in the Next World with Grandpa Gohan checking out some pichi-pichi gals". As for Piccolo, I guess there could be a shot of him meditating at the Lookout following Vegeta's shot in Hell, showing a nice contrast of those two characters. And some of you gotta be wondering, if it hadn't been for Toriyama's editor and those pesky Goku fan-boys, would the series have ended like that? Talk about a What-If!
14 years later

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Post by Jodaku » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:01 pm

I'm constantly changing my mind on this topic (so each time this question is asked, I'm most likely to give a different answer) but at the moment, I'm with Rocketman, it should've ended with Goku dying with Namek. Not so much that I hate the Cell or Buu sagas, but when you read (or watch) the series from the beginning, the natural climax to DB is clearly the Freeza saga. When you look at the whole of DB as truely one story, the Cell and Buu sagas seem way too tacked on to me, it's like offical EU, sure there's continuity, but it doesn't flow as one overarcing story like the previous 27 and a bit volumes did.

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