On the "Dragonball was supposed to end with Freeza"

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Xyex
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Post by Xyex » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:10 am

With all these rumors, it sounded like Toriyama wanted it to end after drawing the first panel.
Nah, just after Pilaf's first appearance. That was the first intended ending. Next was Freeza, then Cell, then Buu. :lol:
I'm close to 100% sure he never did, though. Everyone always says they remember reading it in some interview somewhere, but nobody every has anything more specific than that.
I don't have or remember where the interview was located, but I do remember it. He didn't say "I had intended to stop the story with Freeza and Goku dying on Namek" or anything, though. It was more of a "I was out of ideas after Freeza but was asked to continue so I had to come up with something fast" kind of thing. I think in refrence to someone asking about the designs of 19 and 20, but I'm not sure on that point, I just remember the gist of the response.

While it's nothing definitive it does at least seem to imply he had nothing planned for after Freeza and only continued upon request.
You act as if Toriyama changed his mind at the very last second. I mean, we find out that Goku didn't actually die, what, two chapters later?
Personally, I think the shift from ending it to continuing it was made with the wishes. Namely the one that revived Guru. I mean, that is the single biggest cop-out of the entire series and just screams "I need the heroes back so I can continue the story!" to me. Otherwise Shenron would have likely moved everyone still on Namek to Earth himself, I think.

As for the 'deaths' of Goku and Freeza and their sudden returns, I figure he either A) used his original ending of that battle just for damatic effect B) hadn't decided he would be bringing them both back until he started on the next chpater or C) did it just for the "OMG THEY SURVIVED!" factor.
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Post by jjgp1112 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:15 am

I always wondered how the fuck Goku survived, though. He was screaming at the top of his lungs while the damn thing was exploding. Perhaps he saw the ship flying, and like a second before it blew up, he hopped in and pushed a random button.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Post by Captain Awesome » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:18 am

jjgp1112 wrote:Perhaps he saw the ship flying, and like a second before it blew up, he hopped in and pushed a random button.
There's a flashback scene in the show that shows Goku doing just that.

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Post by jjgp1112 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:20 am

Captain Awesome wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Perhaps he saw the ship flying, and like a second before it blew up, he hopped in and pushed a random button.
There's a flashback scene in the show that shows Goku doing just that.
Oh yeah, that's right! But during that flashback, he finds it right after he jumps out of Freeza's spaceship.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Post by finnishjuoppo » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:39 am

I think that Buu is dull, almost every good fighter in that saga is a saiyan.
I think that dbz should have stopped in cell saga, but that is just me, but still buu saga is great, a little bit dull,but still great...
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Post by djkalteraphine » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:19 am

Jermyn wrote:Wow, I can't believe so many people here dislike the Cell and Buu arcs and yet still are the fans of the series, it boggles my mind. To me, it ending with Goku die on Namek would've been a horrible ending because A Goku being the hero of the story must get a happy ending (which got in the Buu arc) B because we can never get to meet the awesomeness of Trunks, the Artificial Humans, Cell, Mr. Satan, Kaioshin, Dubura, Babidi and Majin Buu. And C Vegeta would never get any character development, Piccolo would never get fuse with Kami and Krillan would never get his dream girl. So yes I'm glad Dragonball continued because if it had ended there I probably never would have gotten into it at all (Seeing the Cell arc on Toonami back in 200 made me a fan)
I'm pleased he continued, mostly because of the humor from the Cell Games onward. It was never as epic as the Freeza saga, and Freeza still being alive to be killed by Trunks aggravates me greatly, but I'm one of those weirdos who loves GT (excepting the Super 17 arc) a lot.

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Post by El Diabeetus » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:45 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:I always wondered how the fuck Goku survived, though. He was screaming at the top of his lungs while the damn thing was exploding. Perhaps he saw the ship flying, and like a second before it blew up, he hopped in and pushed a random button.
Well when he's back on earth he comes out of a Saiya-jin space pod, maybe he saw Vegeta's space pod and hopped in and left Namek at the very last second.

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Post by laserkid » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:59 pm

Jermyn wrote:Wow, I can't believe so many people here dislike the Cell and Buu arcs and yet still are the fans of the series, it boggles my mind. To me, it ending with Goku die on Namek would've been a horrible ending because A Goku being the hero of the story must get a happy ending (which got in the Buu arc) B because we can never get to meet the awesomeness of Trunks, the Artificial Humans, Cell, Mr. Satan, Kaioshin, Dubura, Babidi and Majin Buu. And C Vegeta would never get any character development, Piccolo would never get fuse with Kami and Krillan would never get his dream girl. So yes I'm glad Dragonball continued because if it had ended there I probably never would have gotten into it at all (Seeing the Cell arc on Toonami back in 2000 made me a fan)
O.o I never said I hated the Cell and Buu arcs. Look at my freaking Avatar - I think that should answer your thoughts there. I just am aware that there was a diffrent end to the Freeza saga planned. I'm very grateful it WASN'T what went, as the Freeza saga is probably my least favorate one (filler hell probably doesnt help it to be fair).
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Post by El Diabeetus » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:11 am

djkalteraphine wrote:
Jermyn wrote:Wow, I can't believe so many people here dislike the Cell and Buu arcs and yet still are the fans of the series, it boggles my mind. To me, it ending with Goku die on Namek would've been a horrible ending because A Goku being the hero of the story must get a happy ending (which got in the Buu arc) B because we can never get to meet the awesomeness of Trunks, the Artificial Humans, Cell, Mr. Satan, Kaioshin, Dubura, Babidi and Majin Buu. And C Vegeta would never get any character development, Piccolo would never get fuse with Kami and Krillan would never get his dream girl. So yes I'm glad Dragonball continued because if it had ended there I probably never would have gotten into it at all (Seeing the Cell arc on Toonami back in 200 made me a fan)
I'm pleased he continued, mostly because of the humor from the Cell Games onward. It was never as epic as the Freeza saga, and Freeza still being alive to be killed by Trunks aggravates me greatly, but I'm one of those weirdos who loves GT (excepting the Super 17 arc) a lot.
Yeah, me too, I'm also one of those people who are glad GT was made.

I also like the Cell and Buu saga's for their own reasons, Cell do to Cell was an awesome villain and almost everyone took him on and Norio Wakamoto and Dameon Clarke, really make him menacing. I like the Buu saga since it brings some humor and uses story some elements never used yet.

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Post by djkalteraphine » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:12 am

SSJ4 Furanki wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:I always wondered how the fuck Goku survived, though. He was screaming at the top of his lungs while the damn thing was exploding. Perhaps he saw the ship flying, and like a second before it blew up, he hopped in and pushed a random button.
Well when he's back on earth he comes out of a Saiya-jin space pod, maybe he saw Vegeta's space pod and hopped in and left Namek at the very last second.
He shows up on Earth in a Ginyu spaceship.

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Post by Rocketman » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:23 am

SSJ4 Furanki wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:I always wondered how the fuck Goku survived, though. He was screaming at the top of his lungs while the damn thing was exploding. Perhaps he saw the ship flying, and like a second before it blew up, he hopped in and pushed a random button.
Well when he's back on earth he comes out of a Saiya-jin space pod, maybe he saw Vegeta's space pod and hopped in and left Namek at the very last second.
We saw the very last second. Goku was hovering in mid-air screaming.
Wow, I can't believe so many people here dislike the Cell and Buu arcs and yet still are the fans of the series, it boggles my mind. To me, it ending with Goku die on Namek would've been a horrible ending because A Goku being the hero of the story must get a happy ending (which got in the Buu arc) B because we can never get to meet the awesomeness of Trunks, the Artificial Humans, Cell, Mr. Satan, Kaioshin, Dubura, Babidi and Majin Buu. And C Vegeta would never get any character development, Piccolo would never get fuse with Kami and Krillan would never get his dream girl.
Surprises me too sometimes, but hey.

A. Goku got a happy ending. He avenged his race, killed the evil tyrant who was terrorizing the universe, and became the most powerful being in existence. Then he goes to Heaven upon his death.

B. Trunks sucks. Majin Buu and his entire arc (save Vegetto, but not even he can redeem it totally) sucked. Cell is a total rehash (it's everyone we've killed before, but strongeromgwafl). The Androids come out of fucking nowhere and did anyone, anywhere, ever give two farts about Supreme Kai?

C. Vegeta was evil and didn't need character development. Piccolo fusing with Kami again is unnecessary, and Krillin can mack on those cute babes Grandpa Gohan spoke about.

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Post by djkalteraphine » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:27 am

Rocketman wrote:A. Goku got a happy ending. He avenged his race, killed the evil tyrant who was terrorizing the universe, and became the most powerful being in existence. Then he goes to Heaven upon his death.
I doubt Goku cared about "avenging" Saiyajins, when they were nearly as bad as Freeza, and certainly worse than The Red Ribbon Army. But whatevs.

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Post by Rocketman » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:39 am

djkalteraphine wrote:I doubt Goku cared about "avenging" Saiyajins, when they were nearly as bad as Freeza, and certainly worse than The Red Ribbon Army. But whatevs.
He makes a comment to that end after he buries Vegeta.

Goku: I was raised on Earth...but I'm a Saiyan too! For all the Saiyans you killed...and all the Namekians...I'm going to destroy you! (Tale 114, page 107 of Viz's volume 10)

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Post by SSJ2bardock » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:42 am

I think Goku was avenging all the races that Frieza had destroyed at that point.
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