List of plotholes in GT

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:32 pm

Super Saiyan 3 I can understand; that probably took a LOT of effort over the last 15+ years for Goku to master and be able to use efficiently, and it actually seems like something that might be a problem with a child's body. But what's essentially "Ki Hide-And-Go-Seek?" No way. Shoulda picked something else, Toei.

Nikkolas · Post by **Nikkolas** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:36 pm

I can't remember if it's explained in the show but why are all the Shadow/Evil Dragons so strong?
The Eternal Dragon as a whole is just supposed to be as strong as the one who created it it. how it couldn't stop Napp aand Vegeta way back when.
So how is it the "evil" of each individual DragoN Ball was suddenly so powerful?

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:22 pm

Nikkolas wrote:I can't remember if it's explained in the show but why are all the Shadow/Evil Dragons so strong?
The Eternal Dragon as a whole is just supposed to be as strong as the one who created it it. how it couldn't stop Napp aand Vegeta way back when.
So how is it the "evil" of each individual DragoN Ball was suddenly so powerful?

It was mentioned that when the Dragonballs are used they collect negative energy or something of that nature. If my memory serves, I believe the show went on to state that the bigger the wish the more negative energy is built up. So when earth’s population and Namek’s were revived on occasion that gave birth to the stronger Dragons. Apparently, this negative energy contributed to the Dragon’s combat strength thus resulting in what we saw in GT. Yi Xing Long had all of the Dragonballs which represented each Dragon within his body so that is why he outclassed two Super Saiyan 4s.

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:14 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:Super Saiyan 3 I can understand; that probably took a LOT of effort over the last 15+ years for Goku to master and be able to use efficiently, and it actually seems like something that might be a problem with a child's body. But what's essentially "Ki Hide-And-Go-Seek?" No way. Shoulda picked something else, Toei.

Right. Tracking Ki doesn't take any huge expenditure of energy, nor should physical movement (as how it is implied one "moves" with this technique). There may be a "trick" to Instantaneous Movement, but I always thought of it as some sort of mental process rather than a technique based in Ki or any sort of energy.

So rather than stiffing Goku on a little extra Ki, we're apparently stiffing the guy on brains. And he really, really can't spare any more of those.

~Da Lemmy

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:18 am

San Xi Long was born from a negative wish--restoring Daimaô's youth--so I suppose maybe that made positive enegy in response.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:53 am

JulieYBM wrote:San Xi Long was born from a negative wish--restoring Daimaô's youth--so I suppose maybe that made positive enegy in response.

The nature of the wishes had nothing to do with it. Someone could have wished for world peace and the negative energy would have been created. The Dragonballs were not meant to be abused, that was what the Old Kaiôshin was attempting to warn everyone about during the Buu Saga.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:54 am

*a bit confused* Wasn't it SuuXing Long that... oh... *checks daizex*

Neah, let's compare the personalities of the dragons with the wishes that created them, shall we?

... When I get better at multi-tasking.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:56 am

Rocketman wrote:I still don't see why that's a problem. Goten could go Super at age 7.

And that's the thing. Why say Goku can't teleport due to his small body if he can turn Super Saiyan? There is absolutely no way Instantaneous Movement can be a problem if Goku's done it effortlessly before.

Rocketman wrote:Weren't they in a big container thing with bones in it?

Not quite. They were on a container until Pilaf falls back, pulling the cushion holding the balls off, thus making them fall into the container full of bones.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:38 pm

Tsukento wrote:Why say Goku can't teleport due to his small body if he can turn Super Saiyan? There is absolutely no way Instantaneous Movement can be a problem if Goku's done it effortlessly before.

Because we've seen Super Saiyan children from ages 7-11 (Goten, Trunks, Gohan), as well as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan at the latter age. Instantaneous Movement on the other hand, in DBZ, we only ever saw Goku, Cell, and Buu perform it (as well as Coola in movie 6), as well as Kabito/Kabitoshin in his own advanced version; what's their common trait? None of 'em are children. We've never seen a technical child perform the ability, therefore it could be decided that, unlike Super Saiyan, this technique could not be performed in child form.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:29 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:
Tsukento wrote:Why say Goku can't teleport due to his small body if he can turn Super Saiyan? There is absolutely no way Instantaneous Movement can be a problem if Goku's done it effortlessly before.
Because we've seen Super Saiyan children from ages 7-11 (Goten, Trunks, Gohan), as well as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan at the latter age. Instantaneous Movement on the other hand, in DBZ, we only ever saw Goku, Cell, and Buu perform it (as well as Coola in movie 6), as well as kabito/Kabitoshin in his own advanced version; what's their common trait? None of 'em are children. We've never seen a technical child perform the ability, therefore it could be decided that, unlike Super Saiyan, this technique could not be performed in child form.

Gohan was nine when he became a Super Saiyan.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:16 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:Because we've seen Super Saiyan children from ages 7-11 (Goten, Trunks, Gohan), as well as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan at the latter age. Instantaneous Movement on the other hand, in DBZ, we only ever saw Goku, Cell, and Buu perform it (as well as Coola in movie 6), as well as kabito/Kabitoshin in his own advanced version; what's their common trait? None of 'em are children. We've never seen a technical child perform the ability, therefore it could be decided that, unlike Super Saiyan, this technique could not be performed in child form.

There's nothing to indicate in the manga or Z that one has to have an adult body to do the Instaneous Movement. In fact, Toriyama never even really explains how exactly the technique works other than that it allows Goku to teleport to any location where he can sense and focus on a certain Ki. There's absolutely no reason as to why Goku could not teleport at all if the technique merely requires one to focus on a certain point and use it. There's no mention of it using Ki or it being stressful on the body. Nothing. Goku's done it with absolutely no problem.

The very fact that he could teleport while charging a full powered Kamehame-Ha with relative ease says that the technique does not require much to pull off.

finnishjuoppo · Post by **finnishjuoppo** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:52 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Conan the SSJ wrote:
Tsukento wrote:Why say Goku can't teleport due to his small body if he can turn Super Saiyan? There is absolutely no way Instantaneous Movement can be a problem if Goku's done it effortlessly before.
Because we've seen Super Saiyan children from ages 7-11 (Goten, Trunks, Gohan), as well as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan at the latter age. Instantaneous Movement on the other hand, in DBZ, we only ever saw Goku, Cell, and Buu perform it (as well as Coola in movie 6), as well as kabito/Kabitoshin in his own advanced version; what's their common trait? None of 'em are children. We've never seen a technical child perform the ability, therefore it could be decided that, unlike Super Saiyan, this technique could not be performed in child form.
Gohan was nine when he became a Super Saiyan.

Wasn't he eleven?

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:53 am

finnishjuoppo wrote:Wasn't he eleven?

VegettoEX in saved files for answers wrote:If you go exclusively by the ages we're told during the manga, this is what you end up with:

At the very beginning of the Z-story arc, Gohan is 4 years old. He was 5 during the Freeza fight (it took one year for Vegeta and Nappa to arrive, and they took off for Namek shortly after that battle). This would make him about 6 when Goku returned to Earth. He'd be 9 during the Cell Game (the Jinzôningen arrive three years after Trunks), but physically/biologically 10 due to the year spent in the Room of Spirit and Time.

This falls right in line with the manga's narration saying Gohan is 16 when he goes to high school, which is seven years after the defeat of Cell.

Then we can go even further with the dates provided in the daizenshuu:

757, May 11 - Born
761, Oct. 12 - Four years old when Raditz arrives
762, Nov. 3 - Five years old when Vegeta and Nappa arrive
762, Dec. 24 - Still five upon return to Earth from Namek
763, Sept. 9 - Six years old when Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu are revived
764, Aug. - Seven years old when Trunks arrives
767, May 12 - Ten years old when the Jinzôningen arrive
767, May 16-17 - Spends one day in the Room of Spirit and Time, emerging at biological age 11, but chronological age 10
767, May 26 - Still ten (or eleven) during the Cell Game

The daizenshuu claims the Buu saga begins 774, April 7th. That's just under the general "seven years passing" that's attributed to the space in-between Cell & Buu. If you use that date of April 7th, it means that Gohan's birthday hasn't yet come up for the year (May 11th), so he's still 16 years old (biologically 17 due to the "one-year training" in the Room of Spirit and Time).

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:50 pm

And hence, that this Gohan is called "teen" in the games bugs me immensely. -_-. Even with the dub narrator stating Gohan was eleven at the Cell games (Which Mike just showed was yet another dub screwup... probably keeping with their Saiyan saga messup from the Saiban days), 11 does not a teenager make.

... You
Teen Gohan is a more appropriate name for the Saiyaman-Buu-era Gohan...

Ur. Yes. GT.

Goku magically absorbing absorption by Cell because he's Goku just annoys me... but I don't suppose that's a plothole so much as lame...

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:31 pm

caejones wrote: Ur. Yes. GT.

Goku magically absorbing absorption by Cell because he's Goku just annoys me... but I don't suppose that's a plothole so much as lame...

I am lost, what are you saying here?

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:56 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
caejones wrote: Ur. Yes. GT.

Goku magically absorbing absorption by Cell because he's Goku just annoys me... but I don't suppose that's a plothole so much as lame...
I am lost, what are you saying here?

I think he meant surviving absorption by Cell by struggling out of his tail.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:28 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
caejones wrote: Ur. Yes. GT.

Goku magically absorbing absorption by Cell because he's Goku just annoys me... but I don't suppose that's a plothole so much as lame...
I am lost, what are you saying here?
I think he meant surviving absorption by Cell by struggling out of his tail.

Oh, I see well yeah that seemed somewhat weird but in DBZ, I do not believe it was ever stated that someone could not escape absorption or that Cell could not absorb anyone after he reached the Kanzentai Form. #17 and 18 was too weak to fight back so I do not think that could be used as an example of someone not being able to escape absorption.