Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kaboom]

Ah, my bad, I confused your post with DBGTFO post in which he was responding to the issue. My fault. But hey, I tried to start a Gotenks thread you denied it? Then you say we can't debate it here. What gives?

If you mean this thread, then it was because it was an stem off from an already on-going discussion. It's not that the topic was taboo, but that the thread itself was extraneous and unnecessary.

But either way, it doesn't belong here. This is a thread to show off creativity, not to endlessly debate things which so many people are already sick of reading about.

[dbgtFO]

So this is my final revision of the Buu arc. Some inspiration* coming from this fanmade chart... *SSJ Gotenks' being at 4.000.000.000 is the primary inspiration.
My next one will probably be power levels based on the animated version, instead of the manga.

1. SSJ transformations: SSJ =50x base, SSJ 2 = 100x base, SSJ 3 = 400x base. All of them taken from the SEG.

2. Kiri and BP: A kiri level of 1 = BP of 100.000.

3. Dance fusion: weaker character times 10.

4. Potara fusion: average of characters’ HIGHEST POWERS times 10.

5. Absorptions: Buu's absorptions add to his own, with the exception of the Kaioshins who either adds even more(South Kaioshin) or lowers it(Dai Kaioshin).

25th Tenkaichi Budokai.

Mr. Satan = 5 - He didn't train and therefore lost 2/3rds of his power.
Videl = 30. Stronger, than her dad, stated by Gohan.
Goten = 8.000.000. - Overpowered, but whatever.
-(SSJ) = 400.000.000.
Trunks = 8.400.000. - same as Goten.
-(SSJ) = 420.000.000.
Gohan = 40.250.000.
-(SSJ) = 2.012.500.000.
-(SSJ2) = 4.025.000.000. He was stronger in the Cell Games, where his power level was 6.000.000.000.
Vegeta = 50.000.000. - stated to be stronger, than Teen Gohan and (heavily) implied to be weaker, than Kid Gohan.
-(SSJ) = 2.500.000.000.
-(SSJ2) = 5.000.000.000.
Goku = 75.000.000.
-(SSJ) = 3.750.000.000 - vs. Yakon it's: Kiri = 3000; BP = 300.000.000 - Goku only wanted to show light.
-(SSJ2) = 7.500.000.000. - surpasses Gohan , as noted by Vegeta.
#18 = 320.000.000 - nothing has changed.
Piccolo = 1.000.000.000. - although he states he is weaker, than Kaioshin, that comment was first made AFTER Kaioshin read his mind. But let's just go with him being weaker...
Kibito = 30.000.000. - is implied to be so strong that Gohan had to show his true power to win(true base power that is.)
Kaioshin = 1.300.000.000.
Yamu & Spopovich = 90.

Bibidi Bobidi Boo!
Puipui = 8.000.000.
Yakon: Kiri = 800, BP = 80.000.000.
Dabra = 2.150.000.000. According to Daizenshuu = 4.300.000.000.
Majin Vegeta = 7.500.000.000. - equal to Goku.
Energy required to release Fat Buu = 8.750.000.000. - I think Gohan's SSJ2 energy was 46%(it is only stated it was close to half).

Boo Unleashed!
Fat Buu(initial=Mr. Buu) = 5.000.000.000. - Gohan said he could beat him, if he attained his true power(SSJ2 Kid Gohan).
-(angry) = 8.750.000.000.
-(angry2) = 11.700.000.000.
SSJ 3 Goku (vs. Fat Buu) = 15.000.000.000 - Vegeta in the Kid Buu fight states Goku is stronger, than he imagined, so SSJ 3 Goku is weaker in this fight, than he was vs. Kid Buu. I say he only powered up to 50%.

The power of GAG!
Gotenks = 80.000.000. - he is a gag character.
-(SSJ) = 4.000.000.000
Old Kaioshin = 5.000.000,025. His fusion with the old witch lowered his power tremendously, instead of making him stronger.

Buu's extreme makeover
Evil Buu = 10.000.000.000. - Vegeta implies he is very weak.
Mr. Buu = 5.000.000.000.
Super Buu = 35.100.000.000. - can access 90% of his full power.

The Extreme confidence of Gotenks
Goten = 10.000.000.
Trunks = 10.500.000.
Piccolo = 1.000.000.000
Gotenks = 100.000.000. - his overconfidence is his weakness which 2 chapter titles HEAVILY implies..!
-(SSJ) = 5.000.000.000
-(SSJ3) = 40.000.000.000. - dominates the fight, when he gets serious.

Last Hero Standing.
Ultimate Gohan = 60.000.000.000. - 10*SSJ 2 Kid Gohan.
Buutenks(Gotenks+Piccolo) = 76.100.000.000.
Kibitoshin = 6.650.000.000.
Buuccolo(Piccolo+Goten+Trunks) = 36.120.500.000.
Buuhan(Gohan+Piccolo+Trunks+Goten) = 96.120.500.000

Vegetto = 75.000.000.000 - Buu was visibly surprised, when he was born. Goku can’t use his SSJ 3 power in fusion, since it’s not a efficient transformation.
-(SSJ) = 3.750.000.000.000.

Kibitoshin's flashback
Original Buu = 30.000.000.000.
South Kaioshin = 1.600.000.000 - weaker than SSJ Gohan.
Buff Buu = 37.600.000.000 - Kid Buu + South Kaioshin*4,75
Grand Kaioshin = 1.400.000.000 - weaker than South Kaioshin.
Fat Buu(unreachable full power) = 39.000.000.000

Final fight
Kid Buu = 30.000.000.000.
Goku(SSJ3) = 30.000.000.000.
SSJ 2 Vegeta = 7.500.000.000.
Mr. Buu = 5.000.000.000.
Genkidama = 97.670.500.000.

Epilouge...
Goku = 120.000.000.
Pan = 4.000.000.
Gohan = 60.000.000.000.
Uub = 150.000.000.

[uzuni]

Not a bad list...reminds me of mine

And what do you mean by Dabura "according to the Daizenshuu" ? Are you referring to him being even with Super Perfect Cell?

[dbgtFO]

Not a bad list...reminds me of mine

I haven't seen your Buu arc list yet though

And what do you mean by Dabura "according to the Daizenshuu" ? Are you referring to him being even with Super Perfect Cell?

Daizenshuu 7 says he fought SSJ 2 Gohan, so if Daizenshuu made this list, they would have made him twice as strong, as where I put him.

[uzuni]

Not a bad list...reminds me of mine

I haven't seen your Buu arc list yet though

And what do you mean by Dabura "according to the Daizenshuu" ? Are you referring to him being even with Super Perfect Cell?

Daizenshuu 7 says he fought SSJ 2 Gohan, so if Daizenshuu made this list, they would have made him twice as strong, as where I put him.

Ah, I see. How much did you have for Perfect Cell anyway?

And I really like your Potara system. Makes sense to be used this way. Except for Old Kaioshin fusing with the witch...

[dbgtFO]

Ah, I see. How much did you have for Perfect Cell anyway?

3.500.000.000. Dabra is stated to be stronger and Daizenshuu says Gohan is SSJ 2, so Daizenshuu logic say he would be above that.
In my eyes Gohan was holding back an amount of his power, when he went "full power" at the Cell Games, so his actual SSJ full power is 3.000.000.000, while the power he unleashed to combat Cell was 2.500.000.000.

And I really like your Potara system. Makes sense to be used this way. Except for Old Kaioshin fusing with the witch...

If the fuseés don't fit, then they will only become weaker.

Lol I actually made an error in my previous list!

15th East Kaioshin's original level in my view is 1.000.000.000.
The Witch is = 5
Result = (1.000.000.000 + 5)/2 = 500.000.002,5 *10 = 5.000.000.025. - this doesn't make sense in accordance with the story however, so instead of being this strong the fusion of these 2 people lowers the resulting power by 1000 fold!

Old Kaioshin = 5.000.000,025 - weak as fuck compared to Goku & Co.

[uzuni]

Ahh, I only wish we could find the true origin of that fake BP list...

[p123]

Nice to see you using my method DB, as you can see for situations like Elder Kai and the Witch, my fusion formula is ridicolously helpful in that scenario. Generally people use these huge boosts, which would make a scenario like that equal to like SSJ3 Goku, which is unlikely. It's important to show a way for Potara or Fusion in general to be very small especially in a case like that. Using the AxB formula, even if the witch was a 5, imagine Elder Kai getting boosted 5x for fusing with a witch? That would be awful you know. But anyways nice to see you putting it to use...

[Rocketman]

imagine Elder Kai getting boosted 5x for fusing with a witch?

Isn't the problem that people make Elder Kai too powerful for no reason?

[dbgtFO]

Nice to see you using my method DB, as you can see for situations like Elder Kai and the Witch, my fusion formula is ridicolously helpful in that scenario. Generally people use these huge boosts, which would make a scenario like that equal to like SSJ3 Goku, which is unlikely. It's important to show a way for Potara or Fusion in general to be very small especially in a case like that. Using the AxB formula, even if the witch was a 5, imagine Elder Kai getting boosted 5x for fusing with a witch? That would be awful you know. But anyways nice to see you putting it to use...

Nah, I used my own fusion formula, which I already showed you the beta version of in your fusion formula thread.
AxB has nothing to do with power levels, since it wasn't mentioned at all, so you shouldn't worry about it.
This is what Kanezentai wrote:

On p.63 it describes the Potara fusion as being closer to multiplication rather than simple addition in the way it increases power. Supposedly, Vegetto's battle power is equivalent to Goku's battle power multiplied by Vegeta's.

http://www.kanzentai.com/bp.php?id=guide#seg-guide
Note the word "Supposedly." It's. A. GUESS. It was just a simple guess by Herms, who said, that it might mean, that the users individual battle powers should be multiplied together, so it isn't fact, like many people want it to be.

Also another quote from Herms:

Yeah, if we take the line to literally refer to multiplying Freeza-style battle powers, you get some odd results... So yeah, I don't think the SEG line was supposed to be applied to scouter-type BPs, or was mean all that literally.

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... ra#p359158
So this shows, that when SEG said Potara is close to AxB it doesn't necessarily mean they were talking about Battle Powers, since it wasn't stated at all!

[lash]

The Kanzentai passage with the "supposedly" was just Herms talking in narrator mode for that section. He's not directly stating what was actually said but just summing it up. The SEG itself directly says: ...the power-up from merging isn’t a sum of the two’s battle powers, but rather as tremendous as multiplication.

You kinda misunderstood Herms' quote. The SEG line was definitely referring to battle power. Its just that despite all that, Herms personally didn't think it was literally referring to a multiplication in battle power for certain reasons.

The SEG picture scan directly shows Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto anyway. So Potara(at least with Goku's and Vegeta's fusion, Kaioshin & Kibito is up in the air) is clearly Goku's Battle power x Vegeta's Battle power according to the SEG. Of course no one wants to believe that because it severely messes up their nice fancy fan lists.

[dbgtFO]

The Kanzentai passage with the "supposedly" was just Herms talking in narrator mode for that section. He's not directly stating what was actually said but just summing it up. The SEG itself directly says: ...the power-up from merging isn’t a sum of the two’s battle powers, but rather as tremendous as multiplication.

You kinda misunderstood Herms' quote. The SEG line was definitely referring to battle power. Its just that despite all that, Herms personally didn't think it was literally referring to a multiplication in battle power for certain reasons.

The SEG picture scan directly shows Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto anyway. So Potara(at least with Goku's and Vegeta's fusion, Kaioshin & Kibito is up in the air) is clearly Goku's Battle power x Vegeta's Battle power according to the SEG. Of course no one wants to believe that because it severely messes up their nice fancy fan lists.

I didn't know it actually said Battle Power in that scan, since I haven't seen it, so I thought Herms' quote implied, that they weren't talking about battle powers.
This is annoying.
EDIT: Here is the scan http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll24 ... 2-63_2.png.
And you're right, it doesn't make sense, when doing power level lists.
But to put a twist to it, I will say, that what the SEG is referring to is the FULL POTENTIAL of that character.
So, if I use MY Power Levels Vegetto's FULL POTENTIAL would be: 75.000.000*75.000.000 = 5625*10^12, this is not the power he starts out with though

[Rocketman]

I like how so many people have to deny something stated so plainly, with no gray areas, no shades of meaning, and no mitigating factors.



It does not get simpler. Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto.

[dbgtFO]

I like how so many people have to deny something stated so plainly, with no gray areas, no shades of meaning, and no mitigating factors.
It does not get simpler. Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto.

You know what, I don't care. I can dismiss it just as much, as I can dismiss some of the stuff in the Daizenshuu, which I do all the time anyways.
So in my view, when I make power level lists, Vegetto would not be the equivalent of Goku's battle power multiplied with Vegeta's, since, that would make him WAAAY stronger, than Buuhan, which is ridiculous, based on him only fighting in SSJ.

[Fox666]

That is different of saying "Goku battle power x Vegeta battle power = Vegetto battle power" isnt?

[Piccolo Daimao]

So in my view, when I make power level lists, Vegetto would not be the equivalent of Goku's battle power multiplied with Vegeta's, since, that would make him WAAAY stronger, than Buuhan, which is ridiculous, based on him only fighting in SSJ.

That's fair enough, considering everyone have their own battle power rules.

[Senzu_Bean]

You know what, I don't care. I can dismiss it just as much, as I can dismiss some of the stuff in the Daizenshuu, which I do all the time anyways.

You can, like I can say Kaioshin has three eyes but that doesn't make it true.

[dbgtFO]

You know what, I don't care. I can dismiss it just as much, as I can dismiss some of the stuff in the Daizenshuu, which I do all the time anyways.

You can, like I can say Kaioshin has three eyes but that doesn't make it true.

But did I say, that I considered it as truth?
Power Levels post Freeza arc are fanmade anyways. There's no truth in them by default.

[uzuni]

The Kanzentai passage with the "supposedly" was just Herms talking in narrator mode for that section. He's not directly stating what was actually said but just summing it up. The SEG itself directly says: ...the power-up from merging isn’t a sum of the two’s battle powers, but rather as tremendous as multiplication.

You kinda misunderstood Herms' quote. The SEG line was definitely referring to battle power. Its just that despite all that, Herms personally didn't think it was literally referring to a multiplication in battle power for certain reasons.

The SEG picture scan directly shows Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto anyway. So Potara(at least with Goku's and Vegeta's fusion, Kaioshin & Kibito is up in the air) is clearly Goku's Battle power x Vegeta's Battle power according to the SEG. Of course no one wants to believe that because it severely messes up their nice fancy fan lists.

I didn't know it actually said Battle Power in that scan, since I haven't seen it, so I thought Herms' quote implied, that they weren't talking about battle powers.
This is annoying.
EDIT: Here is the scan http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll24 ... 2-63_2.png.
And you're right, it doesn't make sense, when doing power level lists.
But to put a twist to it, I will say, that what the SEG is referring to is the FULL POTENTIAL of that character.
So, if I use MY Power Levels Vegetto's FULL POTENTIAL would be: 75.000.000*75.000.000 = 5625*10^12, this is not the power he starts out with though

Wow, dbgtFO, that's an interesting scan. Can we get a full translation of the other parts of the pages??

[dbgtFO]

Wow, dbgtFO, that's an interesting scan. Can we get a full translation of the other parts of the pages??

I tried searching for it on Kanzentai, but they haven't translated it for their site yet apparently.
But here's an old thread, from when it first came out.
http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... me#p243680
Check out Herms' 3rd paragraph. For some reason he didn't state the effects of potara, but since we know now, it doesn't matter.