What phrases/opinions/things bring out your irate fanboy?

[Cetra]

Well, it's not like Gohan was in trouble. Even though he hadn't yet reached SS2, Gohan was still plenty strong against Cell. I think Goku's point wasn't about honor or anything like that. I'd argue that it was a psychological tactic. He was so sure of Gohan's power that even letting Cell recover was a non issue.

But they did not know Gohan was not in trouble. Goku was totally convinced Gohan's fine but then after a few panels he was convinced by Piccolo instead.

[ABED]

Was he truly convinced or was he acting emotionally? Goku can sense their powers and knew Gohan took no damage beyond superficial cuts.

[Cetra]

Was he truly convinced or was he acting emotionally? Goku can sense their powers and knew Gohan took no damage beyond superficial cuts.

I don't know if he was just emotional, I am not Goku. But I do not see any difference because in the end he still decided to help Gohan. Piccolo convinced him that Gohan does not think about fighting but why his father is not helping him. Goku realized that Gohan did not think of Goku's perspective because that was not Gohan's world.

[ABED]

Was he truly convinced or was he acting emotionally? Goku can sense their powers and knew Gohan took no damage beyond superficial cuts.

I don't know if he was just emotional, I am not Goku. But I do not see any difference because in the end he still decided to help Gohan. Piccolo convinced him that Gohan does not think about fighting but why his father is not helping him. Goku realized that Gohan did not think of Goku's perspective because that was not Gohan's world.

The shock on his face is emotion so I think it's a fair assessment, and Piccolo was thinking just as emotionally. He's not a telepath, he didn't know what Gohan was thinking in that moment. I do wish people would stop taking Piccolo's statement as gospel. Goku would've been of little help. Gohan was the ONLY person capable of winning. It's a case of being cruel to be kind.

[Cetra]

Was he truly convinced or was he acting emotionally? Goku can sense their powers and knew Gohan took no damage beyond superficial cuts.

I don't know if he was just emotional, I am not Goku. But I do not see any difference because in the end he still decided to help Gohan. Piccolo convinced him that Gohan does not think about fighting but why his father is not helping him. Goku realized that Gohan did not think of Goku's perspective because that was not Gohan's world.

The shock on his face is emotion so I think it's a fair assessment, and Piccolo was thinking just as emotionally. He's not a telepath, he didn't know what Gohan was thinking in that moment. I do wish people would stop taking Piccolo's statement as gospel. Goku would've been of little help. Gohan was the ONLY person capable of winning. It's a case of being cruel to be kind.

If we get totally accurate, Piccolo very well can read minds. We have seen it against Kami. And he did not know he was fighting Kami and was not shocked about reading minds so that definitely was an ability he can control. But still I would not take it as counter argument because it was forgotten about anyway.

The point is, be emotional or not, a change of behavior has happened with Goku. Therefore something changed with Goku. How much is not really relevant because I posted it to show he cares about Gohan and he did.

[ABED]

We know he can read Kami's mind, but Kami and he are one.

I don't know if I would call that a change, Goku's an emotional character. If he loses someone he cares for or thinks he might, he gets upset. That's never changed.

[Kamiccolo9]

We know he can read Kami's mind, but Kami and he are one.

I don't know if I would call that a change, Goku's an emotional character. If he loses someone he cares for or thinks he might, he gets upset. That's never changed.

Piccolo telepathically communicates with Gohan in the Android Arc, when 20 is absorbing his energy.

[Cetra]

We know he can read Kami's mind, but Kami and he are one.

Sorry, but I have the feeling you didn't read my post properly.

Kami (thinking): "blahblahblah borrowed body blablahblah"
Piccolo (saying, not knowing that it is Kami but also not being shocked about reading minds therefore it was his own ability that he very well knew): "borrowed body?"
Kami (saying in Namekian): "You're reading my mind?"
Piccolo: "! That's you! That's why your fighting style is so similiar to mine!"

If he knew it was Kami, he would not have been surprised about him being Kami.
If it was because of Kami that he was able to read the mind he would not have been the one who controlled it an
- would have been surprised about suddenly reading someone's mind
- would have wondered who that person was that he suddenly could read his mind or maybe immediately known it was Kami even without speaking Namekian

Something like that.

And when it comes to telepathy itself, Piccolo always does that. He is even all "Yo, Goten! Trunks! Boo is coming, now go sleep!"


And a change of behavior from being calm in one and the same battle and doing nothing at all but suddenly starting to get ready for round 2 is a change. You are totally misunderstanding what I am saying. Like I'd be talking about an overall change of Goku's character which is not what I was talking about.

[ABED]

But he and Kami are one, this isn't a controversial point. He was surprised that the goofy guy he saw in front of him was Kami.

[Akyon]

Saiyans, in general, are notoriously crap parents due to having little in the way of paternal instinct. Seeing your children as soldiers you'd be genetically programmed to be bad parents. Gine and Tarble being the oddball exceptions...and Paragas possibly prior to Broly ripping his eye out. He did seem to care about his son prior to that, but that could be due to Broly's insane power level as a baby.

Does Tarble even have children... and how? Also, GT may not agree with Gohan's parenting.

Err, no Tarble doesn't. I worded it badly but I meant that I get the feeling he's one of the few that would see a young saiyan as something other than a soldier.

I'm going to reserve final judgement on Gohan's parenting until Super showcases some of it. I'd assume he'd be better than Goku or Vegeta at the very least.

[fadeddreams5]

1 - Gohan is a good fighter, but Toriyama decided to give him cold feet to up the drama.
2 - He was dead and not once was it ever shown or implied that Goku can talk to people in the living world whenever he wants, so the idea that he could just check in on them is ridiculous.
3 - He's also there a lot as well.

1. I'm not saying he isn't. But this particular match was one to the death, which was something he never experienced or was prepared for; it was up to him to kill the strongest known evildoer in existence when his father, the man Gohan has always expected to be the savior, could not. To add insult to injury, Goku gives Cell a senzu bean because he was completely oblivious to the nature of his son, despite spending over a year with him--something that Piccolo understood. Goku instantly realized he was wrong, but it was too late. Things just happened to turn out well... though two people, and an Android, ended up dying.

2. He spoke to them to tell them he was going to enter the world tournament. In fact, didn't he hear about it from the other world, meaning he can? Yet he didn't know he had a 2nd son? Regardless, there is no reason he shouldn't be able to ask King Kai to give him some news. He doesn't need to directly interact with them to do this.

3. 4 years of Gohan's very early childhood when he likely believed he reached a certain cap of strength, and settled down. 3 years during Android gap training most of the time. 1 year or so in hyperbolic time chamber (probably the biggest bonding moment). And the Buu/EoZ gap, after he missed the entire adolescence of his kid, and where it's implied he's always training and can't even take the time to contact his friends.

To you, what constitutes a good father?

Discipline, commitment, and guidance. Caring is a given, and not something that needs to be expressed, but rather shown.

[ABED]

1 - What!? Gohan's always fighting bad guys in death battles. That's nothing new to him. And Goku didn't endanger Gohan at all by giving Cell the senzu. He knew Gohan was stronger and the senzu wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Piccolo didn't understand Gohan more, his word isn't gospel, he was simply worried. There's nothing other than Piccolo's words that Gohan was wondering why Goku would do that. And there have been many debates on this forum that point out that it makes no sense that Gohan would get cold feet over fighting Cell. He's constantly shown that he wanted to help, so there's no possible way Goku or anyone else could've thought Gohan would be hesitant. The fact that Gohan doesn't like fighting is irrelevant. Cell is dangerous and he's the only one that can defeat him.

2 - That doesn't prove that Goku can do that whenever he wants. Goku had to get special approval for a single day, and of course they would let him tell his family. This isn't some no big deal occurance. He wasn't just checking in. He was informing his loved ones that he would be back.

3 - I would argue that the four years he spent with his newborn was his biggest bonding moment. Yes, he's always training, but he's around his family and they are a part of it. He trains with Goten and Pan. Also, Gohan is right next door. This point shows that Goku is a far better family man than Vegeta could've ever hoped to be. During that 3 year period, he was training with Gohan, teaching and encouraging him.

Discipline and commitment. Caring is a given, and not something that needs to be expressed, but rather shown.
Caring IS something that needs to be expressed and his hardly a given. Actions speak louder than words. Vegeta doesn't hug his kid, and doesn't spend time with him. Despite being in physical proximity to him, he's not close.

[gohann]

"You're just a hater!"
Apparently all it takes for a critic to be labeled as a "hater" is to criticize.
"You're just a fanboy!"
This is another term that's lost all meaning. All you have to do is admit to liking GT, and bam, you get the label.

[ABED]

"You're just a hater!"
Apparently all it takes for a critic to be labeled as a "hater" is to criticize.
"You're just a fanboy!"
This is another term that's lost all meaning. All you have to do is admit to liking GT, and bam, you get the label.

The fanboy thing is obnoxious, so is the term "butthurt".

[Plague-Memories]

I'll tell you something I hear that really grinds my gears: "I can't stand the Japanese version of the show because Goku sounds like an old lady."

Hate it. Just absolutely hate that line of thinking. I really only hear it in fan circles outside of Kanzenshuu, but it still irks me. Like, I know taste is subjective and all that jazz, but every single time I've seen someone use that complaint they've never bothered actually watching the series in its original language, let alone a single episode. They just heard it in a YouTube clip or one of the video games and based their entire opinion on that. It's irritating.

[fadeddreams5]

Vegeta doesn't hug his kid, and doesn't spend time with him..

Yes he does. He took him to the park. ;D

Why does his kid need to be hugged? One hug and a punch to the gut suffices.

I'll tell you something I hear that really grinds my gears: "I can't stand the Japanese version of the show because Goku sounds like an old lady."

Hate it. Just absolutely hate that line of thinking. I really only hear it in fan circles outside of Kanzenshuu, but it still irks me. Like, I know taste is subjective and all that jazz, but every single time I've seen someone use that complaint they've never bothered actually watching the series in its original language, let alone a single episode. They just heard it in a YouTube clip or one of the video games and based their entire opinion on that. It's irritating.

I don't like Goku's Japanese VA, and it does sometimes keep me away from the Japanese version. I hear it's cause I never watched the original Japanese version of Dragon Ball, so the transition from Kid Goku to Adult Goku is lost on me. Makes sense, but then, that sort of means that some people appreciate its familiarity over the actual voice of his adult self. I can't deny that the actual acting part of Goku's Japanese VA is good though.

[ABED]

Yes he does. He took him to the park. ;D

After hitting him, and we don't even know if he followed through.

[ChiChiFan]

Goku may not have been the greatest parent but he certainly isn't the worst and there are plenty of moments where Goku does care for his son and wife. I will never understand how Vegeta, a murderer, is somehow a better parent than Goku. Yes, he did change but doesn't make him a better father. At least Goku admitted that he has been selfish towards ChiChi when he was about to sacrifice himself to Cell in the Japanese dub. Toriyama can trash talk Goku about being a bad parent all he wants but Goku will always be the superior father in my eyes.

[ChiChiFan]

Goku's "absenteeism" started when he gave his life to save his son.

What a shitty father.

And when he decided to stay dead for 7 years, and didn't know he had a 2nd son, and stayed training for a year after Namek, and left his family to train a stranger, and is known to rarely see or call his friends when he is alive. >_>;

Goku's role as a father goes in over his head because of his nature and ignorance; he's more of a pal. He cares for his family and friends, but doesn't commit the time to any of them. Sure, he might be there, but it's heavily implied he's only really there when one of them wants to train. If they don't, well, "see you guys! : D"

He didn't know ChiChi was pregnant. I'm for constructive criticism but it gets annoying when people go overboard saying Goku is a bad father when there are plenty of moments when he was there and did show affection towards his son.

[fadeddreams5]

Goku's "absenteeism" started when he gave his life to save his son.

What a shitty father.

And when he decided to stay dead for 7 years, and didn't know he had a 2nd son, and stayed training for a year after Namek, and left his family to train a stranger, and is known to rarely see or call his friends when he is alive. >_>;

Goku's role as a father goes in over his head because of his nature and ignorance; he's more of a pal. He cares for his family and friends, but doesn't commit the time to any of them. Sure, he might be there, but it's heavily implied he's only really there when one of them wants to train. If they don't, well, "see you guys! : D"

He didn't know ChiChi was pregnant. I'm for constructive criticism but it gets annoying when people go overboard saying Goku is a bad father when there are plenty of moments when he was there and did show affection towards his son.

I'm not saying he knew. I'm saying he never asked King Kai for the status of his family while he was dead. If he did, he'd know he has a new son.