New "Remastered Box Set" Information

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Post by Gokuden553 » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:14 pm

Just made another comparison from using the remaster trailer, Funi DBZ DVD... and Dragon Box intro 2.

Funi DBZ DVD intro 2

Image

Funi-remaster

Image

Dragon Box

Image

As you can see by these screen shots, the Funi-remaster version of DBZ intro 2 has lost both the top and bottom halves of the image.

Which makes me wonder how much of the Chala-Head-Chala intro will be lost in the progress :?

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Post by Kaboom » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:21 pm

desirecampbell wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:Y'know... I don't get what all the complaints are about. Why are there talks of "getting ripped off" and boycotts and the like when this is obviously a good thing we're getting here? This is a very nice and well-put together release FUNimation's giving us, which they had no obligation to do at all. Why the complaining?
Widescreen, mate. All this hate over widescreen.

It's not even that it's that big of a deal, really. It's just that we were so close. So very close.
I understand that. But it still seems like making a major mountain out of a minor molehill. So an extremely tiny little bit of footage is getting cut out from the top and bottom in exchange for more on the sides. So what? Shouldn't all the other unbelievably good things (looking forward to the JP BGM, by the way...) far, far, FAR outweigh that one little thing?
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Post by DaemonCorps » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:06 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote: I understand that. But it still seems like making a major mountain out of a minor molehill. So an extremely tiny little bit of footage is getting cut out from the top and bottom in exchange for more on the sides. So what? Shouldn't all the other unbelievably good things (looking forward to the JP BGM, by the way...) far, far, FAR outweigh that one little thing?
They should, but now FUNi pops up with this "new footage" that they suddenly have. Most are saying that it's not DragonBox footage, meaning that they must have remastered their own masters. The big question (at least for me) now is where the hell did this "new footage" on the right oand left come from?

And just top clear some things up, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person suspicious about this footage. Everyone else seems to have accepted it and have decided to buy the damn thing anyways.

And really, the whole process I go through whenever FUNi releases stuff is 1) I wait until the price drops somewhat 2) during that time, I check out what others have been saying about the item and 3) I fanially get the thing regardless of pros and cons. Am I gonna get this? Most likely. Am I gonna complain anyways? Hell yes.

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Post by Soluzar » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:29 pm

DaemonCorps wrote:For those who've combined the comparison shots, did you need to stretch FUNi's UUE version some? I tried combining the two together only to have to resort to stretching for the two images to align correctly. Does this mean that the widescreen version may be slightly stretched?
I needed about a 30% stretch to make the images match up, when I retouched that one frame.
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Post by Strongbad456 » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:30 pm

A thought has crossed my mind. Funi wants to make as much money as possible from DBZ right? Then what they're probably doing is releasing the series in wide-screen boxsets because the know some people will buy them and a lot of people will be pissed off about the wide-screen. Then in a few years they'll probably come out with more sets that will have the correct imaging but might have another problem or 2 but people will be so thrilled that they're finally getting it full-screen that sales for those sets will be even better than for the first sets. I suppose it's all part of marketing. I hope people get what I'm trying to say.

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Post by Maphisto86 » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:51 pm

Strongbad456 wrote:A thought has crossed my mind. Funi wants to make as much money as possible from DBZ right? Then what they're probably doing is releasing the series in wide-screen boxsets because the know some people will buy them and a lot of people will be pissed off about the wide-screen. Then in a few years they'll probably come out with more sets that will have the correct imaging but might have another problem or 2 but people will be so thrilled that they're finally getting it full-screen that sales for those sets will be even better than for the first sets. I suppose it's all part of marketing. I hope people get what I'm trying to say.
I think that's what a lot of people are afraid of but there seems to be two camps on the issue. Those that have faith that Funimation cares about the product they are making and those who see the company as a monolithic, faceless enterprise that is simply using Dragonball as the proverbial cash cow (I'm looking at you Vegetto EX :evil: ).

To be honest I'm just going to wait it out for now until more information is forthcoming. While I'm also nervous as to what this new remastered set is going to look like in widescreen I also think people are unduely freaking out. We have almost nothing to go on right now so let's wait and see.

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Post by DaemonCorps » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:54 pm

Yeah, that's already been mentioned here. And what sucks is that that's most likely what gonna happen ("The way it was meant to be seen... f'real this time!"). FUNi's been doing this kind of thing for years-- they release something and slowly progress in one way, but really eff up in other ways. Heh, who says there's no rhyme or reason to FUNi?

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Post by ect5150 » Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:25 pm

I think I'll still buy this first set (maybe even the second, because we've never gotten its with subtitles here) mainly because the price is so low. If they cut out too much, I think I've decided I'll get the DragonBox's if they ever get release on HD-DVD or BluRay (which they probably would in another 4 years I bet) in the future and just jump on those releases instead of trying to find the DVDs night now.

Time to start saving up some money!
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Post by laserkid » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:41 pm

Li'l Lemmy wrote: True. They never did finish their uncut release of the Saiyan and Namek sagas. But looking ahead, we have to remember that the widescreen feature will continue on to the releases that mirror the episodes we do already have. If the trailer announcement says that all 291 episodes will be remastered IN WIDESCREEN FORMAT, I have to assume that this particular bit of marketing is aimed at fans like me who have most (if not everything) beyond Namek on the singles discs that were released previously.
See here's the thing. I don't WANT to rebuy all the episodes I already own, I just want the rest I don't yet own in proper fullscreen format. That's not to say I hate widescreen, in fact I preffer it for movies. However ultimatly my main issue is to keep the footage the way it was filmed/animated for.
Li'l Lemmy wrote: I'm not sure whether you're aware of it or not, but most DVD players can have their region codes adjusted to your preference. Multiple sites list the codes by model and can give you the power to unlock the master menu, from which you can control your player's settings.
I'm aware, I also don't like the idea of hacking into my DVD player since I can't really afford a new one if it backfires on me.
Li'l Lemmy wrote: I agree with you. However, knowing that not every fan is like you and me, I can see how this is supposed to work from FUNimation's point of view too . . . however misguided that particular viewpoint might be.
Again I don't have an issue that widesscreen is an option but for gods sakes even movie releases do it in their native and fixed forms (albiet in their case those are reversed from our beloved TV shows). All I'd like to see is a fullscreen set available alongside the widescreen one, and that would shut me up. It'd let us REALLY vote with our wallet, and it'd be helpful to guys like us who've slowly bought all but these first two "seasons" of DBZ uncut on DVD. All I really want is to complete the series.

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Post by Blitzen » Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:43 am

You know, having thought over this, knowing that it's all set in stone, I give up. I'll still buy it because it could have been much worse and because I basically have no realistic alternative (Fuck the R3 releases, and the Spanish ones, and the R2 sets or singles are just too expensive now that I've come to grips with how much of a financial black hole anime is). I mean I support getting it back to fullscreen, but the problem here is that they've probably already done months and months of work (perhaps why UUE was outright cancelled) and they aren't going to change it now, considering the widespread appeal DBZ has outside of our litle corner of the internet.

I'm not gonna let it stress me out. It's just a show.

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Post by OutRun2 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:03 am

Blitzen wrote:Fuck the R3 releases
Hello Blitzen. Can you point me to a link describing these R3 releases? Do they have English subs?

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Post by Li'l Lemmy » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:12 am

Crap! I go to take a nap after turkey and come back to find I've missed out on an entire page!
SSj Kaboom wrote:I understand that. But it still seems like making a major mountain out of a minor molehill. So an extremely tiny little bit of footage is getting cut out from the top and bottom in exchange for more on the sides. So what? Shouldn't all the other unbelievably good things (looking forward to the JP BGM, by the way...) far, far, FAR outweigh that one little thing?
It's not cutting out the whole screen, but I don't know that I would call what's missing "tiny". Tiny would be where I barely notice a difference, and that's certainly not the case with these comparison images.

But even so, I think the point that people against the widescreen decision are trying to make is that any cropping for a series filmed in 4:3 is too much, no matter how small. It simply shouldn't be happening, because there's no justifiable reason for it when it was already released once before in the proper ratio.

I'm not saying I'm one of those people. I don't like that FUNimation chose to go through with this, but I was never terribly concerned to begin with-- at least, not to the point where it would affect my purchase either way. I do in fact agree with you 100% that the good far outweighs the bad: The sets themselves are still the glorious rebirth I would often dream about but could never have anticipated, and I can appreciate that FUNimation (however misguided) is trying to give us the show in a whole new way and keep it in the public eye. But at the same time, I can appreciate even more the views of those who see WIDESCREEN in the trailer and beg the universe for an answer as to why.
DaemonCorps wrote:And just top clear some things up, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person suspicious about this footage. Everyone else seems to have accepted it and have decided to buy the damn thing anyways.
It's an interesting theory, Daemon, and on some levels I suppose it has merit. But we've still gotten only the one screen, and that's not enough for me to agree with you. But that doesn't mean I'm set to disagree no matter what-- I'll wait for more screens, and if anything looks too obvious to ignore then you and I can rent out an office and start our own X-Files.
DaemonCorps wrote:And really, the whole process I go through whenever FUNi releases stuff is 1) I wait until the price drops somewhat 2) during that time, I check out what others have been saying about the item and 3) I fanially get the thing regardless of pros and cons. Am I gonna get this? Most likely. Am I gonna complain anyways? Hell yes.
It's your God-given right to complain, and I engourage you to indulge if it makes you feel better. Though technically, I myself would be thankful for the opportunity to complain at all, since FUNimation never had to backtrack and decide to re-release the entire series to begin with. Whether you agree with what they're doing or not, you have to admit that the whole thing has been unexpected and is set to cause something of a revival that, among other things, will keep us talking for a very long time to come.
laserkid wrote:See here's the thing. I don't WANT to rebuy all the episodes I already own, I just want the rest I don't yet own in proper fullscreen format. That's not to say I hate widescreen, in fact I preffer it for movies. However ultimatly my main issue is to keep the footage the way it was filmed/animated for.
There are going to be people who look at this decision and wish the Ultimate Uncuts had never stopped. Those, of course, were released in 4:3 just like the rest of the series, and the last Namek disc would have been the complete series at last for a lot of people. Consistency was within our grasp.

But with the release of these season sets, FUNimation has effectively prohibited us from getting the series all in one format or the other until the very last box, and I wouldn't be surprised if their strategy is even deeper than Daemon earlier described. It might not simply be about setting themselves up for the next fullscreen release; it could be that buying all of the current box sets is going to be the only way for distressed fans to have the show flow consistently from beginning to end-- and then we'll want the 4:3. It's brilliant because even if I'm 100% right about the way they think, it's still disguised as something so alluring and generous that we look like the bad guys for complaining about this whole widescreen business in the first place.

But of course, I don't actually know that it runs that deep. I'm still willing to-- for the moment-- take these sets for what they appear to be; a long-needed gesture on behalf of FUNimation that somehow happened to go afoul. And it's still better than anything we have out there now.
Blitzen wrote:I'm not gonna let it stress me out. It's just a show.
This could be the best thing I've heard in this entire thread.

No, I'm not saying that those who are upset shouldn't be. Realistically, DragonBall isn't "just a show" to any of us-- but we know it's not the end-all to life itself, either. Besides, if Blitzen is right and everything is already finalized for release, then it's not going to do any good for us to go over and over again why this decision should be reversed. You can either buy or not buy the season sets, as EX so thoughtfully suggested, and that will be the best way for FUNimation to be made aware of your opinion.

Well . . . other than Desire's shit-in-a-box idea, of course.
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Post by Blitzen » Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:33 am

OutRun2 wrote: Hello Blitzen. Can you point me to a link describing these R3 releases? Do they have English subs?
There's an R3 release t hread somewheres, and basically they're legit HK releases in two forms (11 sets, or 3 sets). Apparently the chinese subs are hardburnt so theres no point.

Besides, any greivances about the R1 sets have already been expressed here, FUNimation can read them at any point they'd like.

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Post by Li'l Lemmy » Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:46 am

Maphisto86 wrote:. . . and those who see the company as a monolithic, faceless enterprise that is simply using Dragonball as the proverbial cash cow (I'm looking at you Vegetto EX :evil: )
Hmm. I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. I would never presume to speak for anyone other than myself, of course, but from what I've seen in almost two years' time? My impression is that Mr. Labrie has been one of most consistently pro-FUNimation voices on the entire forum . . . despite sometimes being as baffled as the rest of us when it comes to some of their more questionable decisions.

But then, that's just me. And I'm more likely to obsess over my own opinion regarding FUNimation, at present. :shock:
Blitzen wrote:Besides, any greivances about the R1 sets have already been expressed here, FUNimation can read them at any point they'd like.
Which brings another thought to mind:

Other than Daimao, who's pretty much one of us anyway and doesn't represent the English side of the company, do you think that FUNimation is montioring our responses to the announcement? We know they're ghosting the AoD forums and of course their own forum, but I can't help but think that Daizenshuu EX might be too specific a community for them to take much notice of our opinions.

Not that it bothers me. Actually, I can't see why they would want to go running through a forum whose connected site places a good emphasis on the original Japanese version.

But eh. You never know . . .
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Post by ect5150 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:27 am

Blitzen wrote:You know, having thought over this, knowing that it's all set in stone, I give up.
Most people thought the UUE editions were set in stone as well. If they were selling like hotcakes, Funi would have waited before releasing this new widescreen.

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Post by DBW » Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:03 pm

Ok, so I was really bored and thinking about this whole widescreen deal. I was actually planning on buying the first set, not for the remastered video or anything, but just to hear the dub with the original music (yeah, I'm curious). The price is right...yeah FUNi's screwing up the video, what else is new...but what the hell, I'll just buy it anyways, right? Well, not anymore...

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o150 ... 234935.jpg
When I was looking at this 4-way screenshot earlier, I began to wonder what it would be like to watch the entire episode cropped, rather than just looking at one scene (which clearly faults the 16:9 ratio). Honestly, I knew it would suck, but I didn't think it would be too bad. So I popped in the episode and payed close attention to how they framed the action, just kind of pretending that the top and bottom were cut off.

Unfortunately, when you sit through an entire episode and really pay attention to how it's framed, you can really see that they take advantage of the 4:3 ratio throughout. I don't know about the rest of you, but I can honestly say that, after really looking at the episode, I would never want to see episode 34 in widescreen ~never~ Also compare what will be lost to what will be gained on the sides. Trading off Vegeta's impact after the Genki Dama to capture a bit more of his foot? No thank you!

I went ahead and took a bunch of shots that stood out to me, just so you can get an idea of what I'm talking about. Sorry, I'm not good with photo editing, so I didn't put the black bars on. Someone else can do it if they really want, but I think you get the idea...

Not really pertaining to episode 34, but it begs the question of whether or not FUNimation got the credits this time. The opening lyrics had to be cut for the cropped movies, so how would they stand on cropped TV episodes?
Image

The title card will be ok, except for the dragonball on the bottom of the frame.
Image

Ok, so we get into the episode and we come to this scene. Gohan is getting hammered out of frame, but Vegeta is static here, and is clearly framed to fit the 4:3 screen. Imagine this scene cropped, not so hot... Unfortunately, there are many scenes like this, where the action is set to a certain corner, or moves to a corner, etc.
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One of many group shots. Gyuumao might make it out ok, but I don't think Uranai Baba and Oolong will be so lucky...
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Gohan performs a Masenko and screams out Kamehame-Ha. :P One of many scenes where a character is in frame, but what he's doing (his hand's position) will be cropped.
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Another recurring shot throughout the episode. This scene will definately look strange with the top cut off...
Image

Here's a neat shot where Vegeta is approaching Gohan and we can see his hand in the foreground. Not a big loss, but I thought it was a nice touch to the scene.
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Here's one I didn't even think about until I saw it. What's gonna happen to the top of this eyecatch?
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Again, this isn't a major loss, but the effect of Vegeta stretching out as he explodes won't be so spectacular when cropped... :(
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Gohan slowly approaching Goku. This scene actually starts with Gohan fully visible, and the shot I took is one of the last frames. The problem is that in 4:3 we never lose Gohan's eyes, while in widescreen the shot will begin with his eyes just in frame, and as he approaches Goku his eyes will be disappearing off the screen. This one really bothers me.
Image

Vegeta falls through the frame and lands on the ground. You'll still see the fall, but unfortunately his impact will be cropped...
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This is another one that really bothers me. There's about a dozen or so scenes in this episode with Goku lying on the very bottom of the frame. Cropping Goku's expression here would be a fucking travesty.
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And here's some shots I noticed during the ending credits. Hopefully FUNimation is smart enough to shift these scenes up for the widescreen master...
The scrolling dragon at the top.
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Piccolo's head.
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Gohan and the Kinto'un.
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Tenshinhan and Yamucha.
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Yajirobe (I guess Kami and Popo as well).
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And finally this makes me wonder if they got the next episode previews...framing this to widescreen would be weird to say the least.
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Post by Strongbad456 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:40 pm

I really want these boxsets because I want to hear the dub with the original Japanese BGM but if they're going to make it wide-screen and cut out all that footage then I'll pass on this. Screw it. I love DBZ and I like the dub and sub but I just couldn't stand to have all that footage cut out. Nobody should buy it. That might force them to go back and release it full-screen.

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Post by Gokuden553 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:49 pm

What about at the end of the 2nd episode of the fake Namek arc, that 3 image frame will have too much blocked out of it!

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Post by DaemonCorps » Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:35 pm

I just thought of something (kinda strange that nobody else thought of this sooner). Movies that are released in both full and widescreen have to either crop or resize some of the images for fullscreen format. In some cases, I'm sure FUNi could mess with the picture to keep all the footage while in widescreen. Though the big flaw in this is how it may look in actual animation. Regardless, here's some examples:

Image
(Here, I kept the full picture in the center without cropping, and just extended the blue background. Problem: Gohan later moves up and fills the entire 4:3 screen.)

Image
(Same with pro and con with this image.)

Image
(Again, it looks good, and the ratio was kept without cropping, but the animation could be a little wonky.)

Image
(This is the only one I cropped.)

EDIT: Unless they stretch out the pillars like this:
Image

Conclusion: Like altering widescreen to fullscreen for movies, I'm sure FUNi has the choice to use a different method of changing up the picture so it won't look so weird when put up for widescreen. They could either: 1) stretch the picture 2) crop or 3) add some of their own background to keep the full un-croppped footage available. FUNi's dropped the ball so many times, but I'm sure they weren't so lazy that they just put up black bars without looking at what's being cut off.
Last edited by DaemonCorps on Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by mAcChaos » Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:05 pm

Arg, why do they always have to mess something up? Why couldn't they just keep it normal?
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