Dragon Ball: Evolution- Speculation and Discussion

Tenshinhan-san · Post by **Tenshinhan-san** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:46 pm

omegacwa wrote: I understand that first impression are important, but to me, someone already initiated to Goku's true personality, I can quickly ignore his "emo angsty" three lines and just look for things I enjoy about the movie. People are dwelling too much on this stuff. I watched the movie, took what I liked, ignored the stuff I didn't, and everything was honkey doory.

I don't mean to attack anyone. Tenshinhan-san, I don't know you as a person, and for all I know we could be friends in a real life situation. I just don't understand why people can be so fiercely against something that can't be changed now. The movie is done and "buried". Just forget it if you hated it. That's what I would do. Telling people that their belief about something is wrong and that they should agree with you isn't going to go anywhere. For instance, I liked Spiderman 3 even with it's flaws, but I am not going to tell people to love it, I tried and failed at it and now I just don't care. If you didn't like DB:E that's cool, a lot of people didn't, but you shouldn't be saying people are stupid for liking it. People have differing opinions, it's part of what makes us unique.

I understand that I have tried to sway peoples opinions on this matter toward the positive. I am not innocent. I liked the movie. I didn't love it. But some how I can look past it's flaws, something most seem to be unable to do, and just enjoy it as a stupid romp based off something I really love.

I can respect that. I mean I disagree with your view, but you're not being an ass and try to make valid points so I respect you. Answer me this though; When you watch back on all these years we fans have speculated about a possible db-dbz live action movie, was this what you had in mind and aren't you dissappointed as opposed to how great of a film this could have been?
I, as a hardcore DragonBall fan, am horribly offended by DBE. I know that there is absolutely nothing I can do to somehow change things and I have to "accept" the fact that it is what it is, but that doesn't mean I won't voice my opinion everytime I feel like it, since that's the only "exhaust" we as outsiders of the movie business have if either we agree or disagree with the way things are going.

Ducard · Post by **Ducard** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:56 pm

Actually, I think good DVD sales and such seem to make them see reboot potential, rather than sequel potential, like with Daredevil and Punisher.

Though, if a reboot did come along it would probably start off with Z anyway.

Tenshinhan-san · Post by **Tenshinhan-san** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:59 pm

I wouldn't have a problem with a reboot starting off at the Saiyan Saga. If successfull enough, they could make prequels about db afterward.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:15 pm

Tenshinhan-san wrote: I can respect that. I mean I disagree with your view, but you're not being an ass and try to make valid points so I respect you.

How can you say that when you were the one acting like an ass before? I was expressing my opinion about the movie, didn't do anything disrespectful, but you attacked me and insinuated that my opinion was stupid.

Tenshinhan-san wrote:
I was really expecting the worst with Goku's character in the movie. I was pleasantly surprised at how not-different he was. Goku didn't give a shit about anything except for fighting, his grandpa, and... *gulp* Chi-Chi...
No offense, but how is "I don't have any friends" and "Teach me to be normal" not giving a shit about anything but fighting, Gohan and ChiChi..?

Off course everyone has their own opinion about the movie, but some opinions are IMO stupid. Claiming Chatku was just like Goku is like calling a blue sky orange.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:26 pm

I really want someone to make an avatar out of the Oozaru image.

Tenshinhan-san · Post by **Tenshinhan-san** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:27 pm

Goku didn't give a shit about anything except for fighting, his grandpa, and... *gulp* Chi-Chi...

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I still feel that's a stupid comment. Try not to take it personal. It goes beyond opinion and is just denial of fact. If you think I'm behaving like an ass for pointing that out so be it, but that's just the way I feel.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:51 pm

Tenshinhan-san wrote:
Goku didn't give a shit about anything except for fighting, his grandpa, and... *gulp* Chi-Chi...
I'm sorry if I offended you, but I still feel that's a stupid comment. Try not to take it personal. It goes beyond opinion and is just denial of fact. If you think I'm behaving like an ass for pointing that out so be it, but that's just the way I feel.

Please explain why it is a stupid comment. I still don't understand it at all. He didn't care about anything in the movie except for his grandfather who died, fighting, and Chi-Chi. How on earth is that a denial of fact. Please elaborate. Are you talking about him saying he wanted to be normal? Because...

Innagadadavida wrote:First of all, nobody claimed that Chatku is just like Goku. Second of all... I completely forgot about "Teach me how to be normal." I agree that that line was super lame... But he doesn't go on and on about that through out the movie. He quickly forgets about school and friends as the looming threat of Piccolo and Oozaru become more evident.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:04 pm

These Tien avatars confuse me. WHO ARE YOU!?

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:06 pm

JAPPO wrote:These Tenshinhan avatars confuse me. WHO ARE YOU!?

Obviously, the same person using the multi-form technique.

Tenshinhan-san · Post by **Tenshinhan-san** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:19 pm

Please explain why it is a stupid comment. I still don't understand it at all. He didn't care about anything in the movie except for his grandfather who died, fighting, and Chi-Chi. How on earth is that a denial of fact. Please elaborate. Are you talking about him saying he wanted to be normal? Because...

Because summing up what Chatku does/doesn't care about does not define his nor Goku's character.

Except for being in love with ChiChi and "wanting to be normal/learn how make friends" there are lots of things Chatku does that Goku would never, ever have done. Not even in a bad fanfic.

Chatku gelling his hair. Again with the 'wanting to fit in'. It's put in more as comic relief than anything else, but still terribly off-character.

Chatku ditching his Grandpa to attend a party. This part is just so terrible. Even if Chatwin wasn't supposed to portray Goku, but just a random kid. Why would he ditch his grandpa for no apparant reason. He wasn't having a fight with Gohan. He could have just mentioned he wanted to attend Chichi's party, why make a secret out of it? Gohan would eventually have to find out he got ditched just a couple of minutes later... An average teen wouldn't have even done that, let alone Goku for fucks sake! I completely miss the logic here. They just needed a reason for Gohan to be alone and be attacked by Piccolo and this is the best they came up with...

Chatku trying to cheat to master the Kamehameha. Goku is all about hard training in order to become stronger. He would NEVER, EVER - and I can't emphasize EVER enough - cheat in order to achieve anything. Goku is supposed to be pure of heart, remember?

Those are just some of the most cringe-worthy examples I mentioned, but yeah you should get my point.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:26 pm

Tenshinhan-san wrote:Goku is all about hard training in order to become stronger. He would NEVER, EVER - and I can't emphasize EVER enough - cheat in order to achieve anything. Goku is supposed to be pure of heart, remember?

I dunno, he does come awful close when he tiptoes up to Karin while he's sleeping to retrieve the Holy Water...

The fact that he (Along with everyone else) conspires to let Mr. Satan cheat to win Budokais 26+ also shows a certain lack of regard for doing what's right or fair. Mr. Satan's extremely lucky that the Z Fighters were a hundred times more mellow by that point; that shit would never have flown during the older days of Dragon Ball.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:32 pm

Oh, I get your point. I used to think the exact same thing. I completely understand your problem with the movie, really. You are exactly right when you say Chatku's actions are completely out of character. I never once said that they are exactly the same. So please don't insult my intelligence or say that what I think is stupid.

I accept Chatwin as a different character. Imagine Goku in a similar situation. If Gohan stayed alive long enough to put him in high-school and told him not to fight people at school. I think the real Goku would be frustrated at not being able to fight stereotypical bullies. I think that even a Saiyan has a sex drive and it's not unreasonable for a teenage Goku to have wondering eyes in times of peace.

Tenshinhan-san · Post by **Tenshinhan-san** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:33 pm

Dr. Casey wrote: I dunno, he does come awful close when he tiptoes up to Karin while he's sleeping to retrieve the Holy Water...

Don't forget that Goku was still only 12-13 yrs old at that point and ultimately he still didn't cheat. He was playing with the thought, but decided that it wasn't the right thing to do.

The fact that he (Along with everyone else) conspires to let Mr. Satan cheat to win Budokais 26+ also shows a certain lack of regard for doing what's right or fair.

The Z fighters just didn't want to take Earth's hero away by exposing him. It seemed like the right thing to do. They saved a lot of people from a big dissappointment.

Coola Yagami · Post by **Coola Yagami** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:34 pm

Chatku was not pure of heart..... he was trying to cheat to achieve the KameHame Ha.... He could have just asked Gohan about the party. I'm sure Gohan would have let him go... why not let Goku have one last fun party before he finds out he's an alien? And he basically wanted to shag Chichi rotten. Sure, we all would, but the Goku we know wouldn't unless she had tons of food.

Tenshinhan-san · Post by **Tenshinhan-san** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:38 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:Oh, I get your point. I used to think the exact same thing. I completely understand your problem with the movie, really. You are exactly right when you say Chatku's actions are completely out of character. I never once said that they are exactly the same. So please don't insult my intelligence or say that what I think is stupid.

I accept Chatwin as a different character. Imagine Goku in a similar situation. If Gohan stayed alive long enough to put him in high-school and told him not to fight people at school. I think the real Goku would be frustrated at not being able to fight stereotypical bullies. I think that even a Saiyan has a sex drive and it's not unreasonable for a teenage Goku to have wondering eyes in times of peace.

I agree about the what-if scenario that Goku would have been frustrated about having to hold back. Also, I never meant to insult your intelligence man. You know that as well

. I'm sorry if it came across that way. It's just that that specific comment doesn't hold up as a definition of what a character is. There's so much more to it!

Chatku was not pure of heart..... he was trying to cheat to achieve the KameHame Ha.... He could have just asked Gohan about the party. I'm sure Gohan would have let him go... why not let Goku have one last fun party before he finds out he's an alien? And he basically wanted to shag Chichi rotten. Sure, we all would, but the Goku we know wouldn't unless she had tons of food.

LMAO that's so true!

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:43 pm

Tenshinhan-san wrote: Chatku gelling his hair. Again with the 'wanting to fit in'. It's put in more as comic relief than anything else, but still terribly off-character.

But he doesn't gel his hair. He tried, but it just sprung back to the way it was. That gelled look he has throughout the movie is his normal hair. And putting gel in it obviously wasn't something he'd ever done before.

Tenshinhan-san · Post by **Tenshinhan-san** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:45 pm

Kid Trunks wrote:But he doesn't gel his hair. He tried, but it just sprung back to the way it was. That gelled look he has throughout the movie is his normal hair. And putting gel in it obviously wasn't something he'd ever done before.

I know what you're getting at, but the fact that he even tried it just isn't Goku.

Coola Yagami · Post by **Coola Yagami** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:55 pm

The fact that he can function in the 'real world' well enough to know what hair gel is and how to use it, let alone go to high school and such, isn't Goku....

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:56 pm

Tenshinhan-san wrote:
omegacwa wrote: I understand that first impression are important, but to me, someone already initiated to Goku's true personality, I can quickly ignore his "emo angsty" three lines and just look for things I enjoy about the movie. People are dwelling too much on this stuff. I watched the movie, took what I liked, ignored the stuff I didn't, and everything was honkey doory.

I don't mean to attack anyone. Tenshinhan-san, I don't know you as a person, and for all I know we could be friends in a real life situation. I just don't understand why people can be so fiercely against something that can't be changed now. The movie is done and "buried". Just forget it if you hated it. That's what I would do. Telling people that their belief about something is wrong and that they should agree with you isn't going to go anywhere. For instance, I liked Spiderman 3 even with it's flaws, but I am not going to tell people to love it, I tried and failed at it and now I just don't care. If you didn't like DB:E that's cool, a lot of people didn't, but you shouldn't be saying people are stupid for liking it. People have differing opinions, it's part of what makes us unique.

I understand that I have tried to sway peoples opinions on this matter toward the positive. I am not innocent. I liked the movie. I didn't love it. But some how I can look past it's flaws, something most seem to be unable to do, and just enjoy it as a stupid romp based off something I really love.
When you watch back on all these years we fans have speculated about a possible db-dbz live action movie, was this what you had in mind and aren't you disappointed as opposed to how great of a film this could have been?

Of course I am disappointed. If I was satisfied would I be taking my own personal time to write a DB movie myself?
I just don't care enough I guess to be pissed about it. The movie was a mediocre effort that can easily be forgotten just like The Magic Begins.

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:59 pm

omegacwa wrote:forgotten just like The Magic Begins.

You're kidding right? There's no way that movie will EVER be forgotten.

Long live Dancing Roshi!