Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Saiga]

Yeah, I personally would just have him at like 2,000 or something like that. I like the idea of Bardock not being special :B He can be good for a low-class, but he's still a low-class.

[RandomGuy96]

I recently pegged him at 2,000 when he 'died', and 3,000 in EoB, if only so his Super Saiyan can be exactly 1,000 times weaker than Goku's when he fought Freeza.

[KentalSSJ6]

Well everyone, I think its time to get some mega posts. I ask everyone to post ALL their power levels for everything after Namek and all the way to The End of Z.

Saiga, Kaboom, Randomguy, I'm looking at you guys.

I do believe I just posted some links back on page 201.

That friggin Vegito power level...my sides are still aching.

[ZombieVito]

I honestly don't see any blatant contradiction between what the TV special and Toriyama said about Bardock's power. Regardless of what his power level was, for some reason or another he was still considered just a low-class.

I agree, 10,000 still works. Especially after this:

This rank is determined by an innate latent battle power, but naturally, if their battle power rises greatly afterward, they can be promoted.

Which was exactly what happened to Bardock, he got Zenkai after Zenkai and grew stronger as noted by that doctor. He just never got promoted for whatever reason.

[RandomGuy96]

You'd have to just outright ignore the context to come to that conclusion. Toriyama is asked about Bardock's battle power and how strong he could potentially end up. He responds that he "isn't able to become a mid-class" while talking about how becoming a mid-class means getting a higher battle power. It seems pretty cut and dry. If it was just a matter of formalities and promotions, he'd specify that, and say that he couldn't become a mid-class. Past tense, indicating that he can now, because he's strong enough.

Also, very minor revisions made to my numbers on the last page for the Fusion Saga. To quote TFS Chilled, "I CHANGE MY MIND A LOT!". I think this is what I'm sticking with; Evil Buu is weaker than Pure Buu (fits my theory about him being a "tainted" Pure Buu), South Kaioshin's filler fight fits in (he's a lot weaker than Buu, but not so weak he can't do anything at all), Mr. Buu = Dai Kaioshin + South Kaioshin, and the seemingly contradicting implications about how strong Gotenks and Gohan are compared to Goku (Daiz saying Fat Buu is somewhat weaker than Buff Buu, Goku being implied to be kind of useful in a team-up with Gohan, the Earthlings' ki being relevant alongside Gohan's, that one guidebook making the SK absorption sound like addition, the same thing being implied in the series, SS Gotenks being stated to be above Fat Buu, etc.) are simplified in a somewhat logical way with different fusion multipliers... at least, that's what I think. Best I can do.

[Kaboom]

And yet the wording allows for it, so we're okay.

[RandomGuy96]

At the same time, you must realize that it's probably not what Toriyama meant.

[Kaboom]

Might not be. But it also might be. Who knows for sure? Certainly not either of us.

[RandomGuy96]

Might not be. But it also might be. Who knows for sure? Certainly not either of us.

I think I can make a pretty good guess, since he said this specifically after being asked about battle power.

Anyway, quick question. This V-Jump page is where the levels for Krillin, Gohan, and Vegeta come from right?



Is it saying that 2nd form Freeza is 1,000,000, or in other words so close to 1,000,000 that actually writing out the amount by which he exceeds it is pointless, like Goku's 8,000?

Another thing:

In addition to the battle powers, at the bottom of the page is a section where Tenshinhan and the others at Kaiō’s give their comments on the battle with Freeza. Tenshinhan says that he has gotten much stronger.

They got "much stronger"? In 6 days? Did they go through the same process as Piccolo, who got at least a few times stronger in the same time?

[Saiga]

First time I've noticed they had Goku at 180,000. Does it mention that's with the Kaio-ken?

[RandomGuy96]

First time I've noticed they had Goku at 180,000. Does it mention that's with the Kaio-ken?

Yeah, I'm wondering that too. Anyone know? That'd be rather helpful. I find it weird that the battle power guide doesn't mention those two levels.

Anyway, I just had a thought: battle powers are supposed to be a numerical representation of a character's power, right? That'd imply that they're accurate and proportionate. However, I've often seen it said that they're not, and that a person with a power level of 10,000 wouldn't necessarily have half the power of someone at 20,000. But the kaio-ken is stated to increase the user's strength and ki, and the stated multipliers align exactly with battle powers (KK x2 Goku = 16,000, KK x3 Goku = 24,000, etc.). Which pretty much means that they are. I've found that this actually can work- for the manga, at least.

This rather interesting calculation uses math and the spread of Earth's debris to find the power of Pure Buu's Vanishing Ball. The calc estimated it at 416,666 times the power needed to just destroy the Earth: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=15373. Seems fairly accurate.

If you assume that Saiyan Saga Vegeta's Galick Gun was the first attack strong enough to bust a planet, and that Pure Buu's Vanishing Ball wasn't his full power (both of which are supported in the manga), it makes some sense.

Vegeta's Galick Gun is around 25,000. Since Pure Buu didn't need to use that much power just to make an attack much stronger than SS Goku and SS Vegeta (or the SS2 versions, if you prefer the anime), let's just assume he only used a fourth of his power to destroy the Earth. So 416,666 Galick Guns would be equivalent to 25% of Pure Buu's power.

25,000 x 416,666 = 10,416,650,000 BP

10416650000 x 4 = 41,666,600,000

That roughly lines up with most estimates of Pure Buu's full battle power. I probably made an error... please inform me if I did...

This is only marginally related to the stated purpose of the thread, but I thought that others might find this interesting, since until I read that kaio-ken tidbit I didn't think power levels were linear.

[kuartus4]

This is my PL list.

Namek Saga:

Cui: 18,000
Dodoria: 19,000
Zarbon: 20,000
Vegeta: 24,000

Monster Zarbon: 28,800
2nd zenkai Vegeta: 30,000
Recoome: 36,000
Jeice: 36,000
Burter: 36,000

3rd zenkai Vegeta: 460,000
1st zenkai Gohan: 200,000

2nd zenkai Gohan: 300,000
2nd form Frieza: 1,000,020
1st power up: 1,200,000
2nd power up: 1,400,000
Weighted Piccolo: 1,260,000
Unweighted Piccolo: 1,500,000

3rd form Frieza: 2,000,000
4th zenkai Vegeta: 2,400,000
Goku: 3,000,000
Initial 4th form Frieza: 3,500,000

SSJ Goku: 150,000,000
100% Frieza: 136,365,000


King Cold: 100,000,000
100% Mecha Frieza: 150,000,000
SSJ Future Trunks: 150,000,000
SSJ Yardrat Goku: 165,000,000
SSJ Future Gohan; 125,000,000

Androids Saga:

Android 19: 110,000,000
Post Goku: 200,000,000
Android 20: 120,000,000
Post absorbtions: 130,000,000

Piccolo: 190,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 220,000,000
Sick Goku: 206,250,000
Healthy: 237,200,000
SSJ Vegeta. 250,000,000

Ginger town Imperfect Cell: 300,000,000
Weighted Kamiccolo: 360,000,000
Android 18: 360,000,000
Android 17: 380,000,000
Unweighted Kamiccolo: 380,000,000
Android 16: 500,000,000
Imperfect Cell(post absorbtions): 500,000,000

Cell Saga:

Initial Semi perfect Cell: 675,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 720,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 750,000,000
Full power Semi Cell: 900,000,000
ASSJ Trunks: 1,080,000,000
ASSJ Vegeta: 1,125,000,000
Initial Perfect Cell: 1,500,000,000
USSJ Trunks: 1,800,000,000
Ultra Buff Initial PC: 3,750,000,000

Cell Games:

Piccolo: 3,000,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 3,250,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 3,400,000,000
Cell jr: 3,500,000,000
Mssj Goku: 4,300,000,000
Power up PC: 4,700,000,000
Mssj Gohan: 5,400,000,000

Full power PC: 7,000,000,000
Giant buff PC: 8,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 10,800,000,000
SPC: 11,880,000,000

SSJ Future Trunks(3 years later): 4,000,000,000


Buu Saga:

Piccolo: 3,600,000,000
SSJ Trunks : 3,650,000,000
SSJ Goten: 3,450,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 4,300,000,000
Ssj Vegeta: 4,515,000,000
Dabura: 4,515,000,000
Ssj Goku: 5,700,000,000

East Kaioshin: 8,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 8,600,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 11,400,000,000
SSJ2 Majin vegeta: 11,400,000,000
Fat Buu: 21,500,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 45,600,000,000

[KentalSSJ6]

Take this with a pinch of salt but I came across a little tidbit on Bulma's page of the DB Wiki. It said in a pamphlet from Tree of Might that Bulma's power level was 12.

Everyone's thoughts on that number?

[RandomGuy96]

Take this with a pinch of salt but I came across a little tidbit on Bulma's page of the DB Wiki. It said in a pamphlet from Tree of Might that Bulma's power level was 12.

Everyone's thoughts on that number?

That pamphlet does whatever the hell it wants. Like giving Colonel Silver a power level of 200. Just ignore it.

For context, that would mean Bulma has over twice the battle power of the average human, and she'd be stronger than Goku at the start of the series.

[Kaboom]

Here's a thought.

How much better do the Movie 3 pamphlet's pre-Raditz power levels do if we just cut them all in half? Or divide them by three if that's not enough?

[RandomGuy96]

Here's a thought.

How much better do the Movie 3 pamphlet's pre-Raditz power levels do if we just cut them all in half? Or divide them by three if that's not enough?

...why would we do that?

Kaboom, I think you should just stop trying to justify/use these pamphlets. They weren't created with any sense of fitting them with the actual series in mind, that much is obvious from stuff like having Cui weaker than Saiyan Saga Vegeta, Silver stronger than Roshi, and Emna weaker than Raditz. The V-Jump numbers for Broly and Cooler a while back were far more workable than this, and you didn't bother with them.

Anyway, even if we were to do that, the pamphlet botches relative strengths. Red would inexplicably be ultra-powerful for a human. So would Black. Colonel Silver would be Tao-tier. Pilaf would be quite a bit stronger than Goku.

Blue's might work if divided by 3... I guess.

[ZombieVito]

I have to agree with RandomGuy96 here Kaboom. Those levels just don't work.

[Kaboom]

I wasn't trying to argue that they work, and I even immediately thought of a few numbers in question that I knew would still be bogus. It was just a random idea like I said. Something I thought would be fun, but I forgot that you could count the number of people in the world who do power levels for "fun" on two fingers, and I'm one of them.

Heck, the only numbers from the pamphlet I do use are the ones for movie 3 itself (since a little more care and thought seems to have gone into them) and Nappa's 4500 (to be a special snowflake and poke fun at people who insist he HAS to be over 4000 or whatever). Don't take me as someone who just swallows and accepts ANY official number.

[RandomGuy96]

I wasn't trying to argue that they work, and I even immediately thought of a few numbers in question that I knew would still be bogus. It was just a random idea like I said. Something I thought would be fun, but I forgot that you could count the number of people in the world who do power levels for "fun" on two fingers, and I'm one of them.

Heck, the only numbers from the pamphlet I do use are the ones for movie 3 itself (since a little more care and thought seems to have gone into them) and Nappa's 4500 (to be a special snowflake and poke fun at people who insist he HAS to be over 4000 or whatever). Don't take me as someone who just swallows and accepts ANY official number.

Well, I gave you my answer. Blue's works if you divide it by 3. So would Bulma's. Most of the others involve assigning huge numbers to non-super powered people without any real reason, like Pilaf being 40 and Silver being 200, so them being divided wouldn't really change anything.

Movie 3's levels really don't work either, considering Tullece's actual feats (dodging and blocking 30,000+ Goku, hurting Ooozaru Gohan, blocking Piccolo's SBC by sticking out his palm). It's really not worth it to try to make his level work, especially since the same page states Zarbon is weaker than Saiyan Saga Vegeta, and Cui = 8,700. Though the five given for Tullece's henchman squad work purely because there's nothing to contradict them, so I use 'em as a novelty.

Speaking of which, I see that you usually make an error when writing those out: Cacao is the one at 13,000, not Daiz.

Cacao- 13,000
Amond- 9,100
Daiz- 8,400
Raisin- 8,000
That Other Purple Guy- 7,600

He deserves to be the strongest on part of being a totally awesome looking cyborg. Though it does make you wonder why he fought Yamcha.



The Movie 2 levels also appear to work (since Movie 2 Goku is possibly stronger than Saiyan arc Goku, and Uiro was stated to have gotten stronger after being shot into the stratosphere), aside from the one given to that yellow guy, which is inexplicably way lower than the other two. And the manga ones outright contradict the power levels we get there.

[Kaboom]

Our guide here on Kanzenshuu lists it the other way around, because presumably something got mixed up in the transition to the pamphlet from the Carddass cards they originally stemmed from.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/ ... amphlet-08

If I had to pick one or the other, I'd agree the power suits Daiz better, even if just because he was matched up against Goku.