Dragonball Kai (FUNimation English) Dub: General Discussion

[Gaffer Tape]

That's a good point, yes, but not a conclusive one. For three reasons.

1) It didn't air on Toonami for four years. I don't remember the exact time frame, but the re-runs of DBZ weren't picked up by Toonami until after DBZ had already been on TV in the absurdly early hours of the morning for a long while. As a guestimation, I want to say that it started airing on Toonami around 1998. The point being, the old Ocean dub of DBZ didn't begin to get popular until long after it originally started on syndicated TV. So it's not as permanently-ingrained into the minds of fans.

You're right. It started airing on Toonami in the fall of '98. That's when I started watching it. That's when everyone I know started watching it. For a year. Fifty-three episodes and three movies. You realize that's almost the length of entire cartoon series in America? And those were rebroadcast so many times we knew them by heart. I had every episode on tape. When news of an Ocean version of Kai first surfaced did you notice how many people on this board rejoiced at the possibility of hearing their favorite voices (American people who had only experienced that cast for the first two seasons)? I don't know if you were around the fandom in fall of '99, but believe me when I say it was a really big deal when they changed the cast. A really big deal. But the show still survived.

3) FUNimation has said in several of their industry panels that the vast majority of their DVD-buyers are dub-watchers. They said that the number of sub-watchers is not at all small enough to justify cutting out the subtitled version, they've vowed that all of their DVDs will be dub-and-sub releases, but the fact remains that the dub-watchers outnumber the sub-watchers.

Yep. You're absolutely right about that. Absolutely... Unfortunately, I'm afraid I have no idea what that has to do with this conversation.

Gohan and Freeza, though. Two VERY significant re-casts. That's still only two, though. I don't think we can justify comparing that to re-casting the whole cast.

I thought this started when someone suggested replacing Chris Sabat as Vegeta and someone else said the fandom would implode on itself if that one character was replaced.

[Mewzard]

There's been huge, organized movements on the internet for both the Mexico dub and the Brazil dub to maintain their original casts, you mean to assume that the same thing wouldn't happen with the English dub?

"Huge"... how huge? A thousand angry nerds raging at the internet that they won't watch a TV cartoon unless these specific actors are cast isn't going to matter much to the dubbers. And hell, these people are already raging because Gohan and Freeza were recast anyway. How many people out there fall into the "I don't care if Gohan or Freeza are recast, but if you change Goku's dubber, I'm not watching" camp? Can't imagine there being that many.

I'd be one of those, lol. One of the key things about Kai is that I wanted a good dub with the actors I liked in the roles. Sure, there have been a few changes, but in roles that I always did want to see some level of change (the pre-Cell Gohan for instance), roles that weren't all that big in the grand scheme of things (Bulma in Z), and roles I wanted to see with better dubbing, but the recast is so damn good, I can't help but enjoy it (Freeza).

But take away my Goku? I'd be in a fury. I don't consider my love for Schemmel's Goku any less than huge sub fans' love for Nozawa in the role. With this redub? My passion for the work has only grown (his acting improved, the scripts and direction improved, he's worked on keeping the role closer to being right in tone, etc). I don't doubt for a second if he was replaced, I'd be ranting in a topic over this matter (both on here, and a few other forums), just like any here would over Nozawa being replaced (especially if it was for financial reasons, and she was perfectly capable of doing the role).

I wouldn't of followed DB since the late 90s to now if I didn't care for it, and a lot of that love came from my Toonami days. I just want to see some of what I loved in the original carried over to a more accurate dub...and I'm getting that, so I can't complain.

[TheBlackPaladin]

That's a good point, yes, but not a conclusive one. For three reasons.

1) It didn't air on Toonami for four years. I don't remember the exact time frame, but the re-runs of DBZ weren't picked up by Toonami until after DBZ had already been on TV in the absurdly early hours of the morning for a long while. As a guestimation, I want to say that it started airing on Toonami around 1998. The point being, the old Ocean dub of DBZ didn't begin to get popular until long after it originally started on syndicated TV. So it's not as permanently-ingrained into the minds of fans.

You're right. It started airing on Toonami in the fall of '98. That's when I started watching it. That's when everyone I know started watching it. For a year. Fifty-three episodes and three movies. You realize that's almost the length of entire cartoon series in America? And those were rebroadcast so many times we knew them by heart. I had every episode on tape. When news of an Ocean version of Kai first surfaced did you notice how many people on this board rejoiced at the possibility of hearing their favorite voices (American people who had only experienced that cast for the first two seasons)? I don't know if you were around the fandom in fall of '99, but believe me when I say it was a really big deal when they changed the cast. A really big deal. But the show still survived.

I was indeed a fan around that time. I was only 11, certainly, but my 1998 estimation came from personal experience, as that's when I began watching it. The Ocean voices were my first voices, as well. They're no longer my favorite voice cast, though. For the most part, I enjoy the FUNimation cast better. Which is not to say the Ocean cast is bad, there are many voices I wouldn't mind hearing again myself (Ian Corlett's Goku, Brian Drummond's Vegeta, Scott McNeil's Piccolo), but they aren't the voices I associate with these characters anymore. Why? Because, like you said, most people only saw them for a year. They're not as well-remembered as the FUNimation cast is, purely by way of exposure--the FUNimation cast had a lot more of it. Fifty-five episodes and three movies doesn't measure up against the exposure granted by two hundred ninety-one episodes and thirteen movies. Not even counting what they did with DB and DBGT.

3) FUNimation has said in several of their industry panels that the vast majority of their DVD-buyers are dub-watchers. They said that the number of sub-watchers is not at all small enough to justify cutting out the subtitled version, they've vowed that all of their DVDs will be dub-and-sub releases, but the fact remains that the dub-watchers outnumber the sub-watchers.

Yep. You're absolutely right about that. Absolutely... Unfortunately, I'm afraid I have no idea what that has to do with this conversation.

I'm only saying that some posters on this thread seem to be minimizing the presence that dub fans have. They're not to be underestimated, as they make up the majority of FUNimation's audience.

Gohan and Freeza, though. Two VERY significant re-casts. That's still only two, though. I don't think we can justify comparing that to re-casting the whole cast.

I thought this started when someone suggested replacing Chris Sabat as Vegeta and someone else said the fandom would implode on itself if that one character was replaced.

Well, yes, but I wasn't that someone. Based on observation, it would seem to me that Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat are the two voice actors most commonly associated with the English dub of this franchise. Loosing them would be the biggest deal of all. Again, what I'm primarily talking about is the idea of a total re-cast. Sub fans seem to think it's much more plausible than it really is.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Most American fans don't know the Yamamoto score is new. Most don't know Gohan isn't voiced by the same person who voiced him way back then, and even if they somehow realized, most wouldn't care. All the complaints about things being "different from the original" are coming from the ultra-hardcore internet dub nerds, and they don't make up a particularly large amount of the fanbase. They could've recasted everyone in the entire series, and the only people who would've cared considerably are the people who are already condemning dub Kai for the "changes" that have already been made anyway. You'd have to rename Goku and Vegeta or something in order to get your average watcher to take notice that something is off.

I wouldn't say 'most', though I'd say a large chunk of the viewers Nicktoons is pulling in via Kai are new, and have no idea about how different these things are from the original Z dub. They may have been aware of what Dragonball was before they started watching it, and maybe even casually watched a bit of it back on Toonami, but are only getting into the series now. The only reason we're hearing all these vocal complaints is because they're from hardcore fans on the internet. That's what we're hearing. I bet a visit over to the Nicktoons Kai forum would show us a vastly different set of opinions than what we see over here, or on YouTube, or forums populated mostly by dub fans. If we went into an elementary or middle school and interviewed kids we knew were watching Kai right now, I'm sure they'd have no idea this was such a significant product. And if I asked around my college, among the groups of casual Anime fans I know, even those who grew up watching DBZ on Toonami but no longer maintain the fandom (IE, they're not 'hardcore' like us, who hold onto it, and thus make our opinions heard), and asked them how they felt about Kai, I'd imagine they'd be more apt to notice the missing filler content, possibly the different music, than they would the voices.

And guess what? These people make up the audience and market of Kai as well. It's not just the folks like us here on DaizEX or other internet forums - subbie or dubbie, we know the inside scoop on Kai, we know why for better or worse this dub is a significant project, and we're internet users...we're going to make our voices heard. But that doesn't mean those vocal fans are the majority, or the only ones this product is meant for, and as a result, changing voices that some 'hardcore' fans may find iconic (Vegeta; I mean Hell, Freeza was certainly 'iconic' for other reasons, and he was recast) would not result in a riot so great that Kai would fail. Compare it to the Mexican dub problems if you want, but the same applies - a vocal minority of hardcore internet users, so of course those are the opinions we're aware of. We're not hearing the feedback of everyone this series is targeted for, and that certainly doesn't break the market.

I don't know. I still disagree, and that's just based on the fact that it HAS happened before. By the time of season 3 DBZ and DB had been airing for four years with the same voice cast and had built up a huge following thanks to its exposure on Toonami. And I was pissed as hell when the entire voice cast was replaced at the same time for season 3. I bitched. I complained. I turned up my nose. I still continued watching. And so did everybody else.

It started airing on Toonami in the fall of '98. That's when I started watching it. That's when everyone I know started watching it. For a year. Fifty-three episodes and three movies. You realize that's almost the length of entire cartoon series in America? And those were rebroadcast so many times we knew them by heart. I had every episode on tape. When news of an Ocean version of Kai first surfaced did you notice how many people on this board rejoiced at the possibility of hearing their favorite voices (American people who had only experienced that cast for the first two seasons)? I don't know if you were around the fandom in fall of '99, but believe me when I say it was a really big deal when they changed the cast. A really big deal. But the show still survived.

I first started watching the series when it was airing on Toonami. I don't really know what year it was. I do know, however, that nostalgic oldschool fans will often complain about the 'endless loop' in the run before the season 3 episodes finally began airing...so apparently, for quite a long time, all that was being run and rerun and rerun over and over were the Ocean episodes. Even if we ignore the times it was airing in the early morning Saban slots, DBZ on Toonami had a long-standing presence with the Ocean cast. Fans got used to those voices. Those were as iconic to many of us as the FUNi voices are to today's dubbies. And as Gaffer said...I remember that one day, I came home from school to watch as usual, and suddenly the voices were different. I admit I didn't realize what happened right away, and only instantly noticed the difference with a few of them (mainly Kuririn and Vegeta) and then over time noticed that everyone's voices were different. Did I rage? Yes. I was very upset to lose the old voices, and I didn't understand why it had happened. But did I stop watching? Of course not. I was obsessed with the series, and despite how upset I was, it certainly wasn't a deal-breaker. We may have ranted about how much the voices sucked compared to what we were used to, or how much more corny the script became, this that and the other thing, but we kept watching it because we loved Dragonball Z. I'm not saying there wouldn't be revolts among a vocal internet fanbase, but A) that's not the entire fanbase, and B) we've been through this before...and we did move on. And this time, we're not dealing with a complete cast change for every single character...do you really think replacing Vegeta would spark any more hatedom than Freeza, or the loss of Falconer's music? I don't.

This is no different than what happened back then, except for in one, significant aspect - this time, the script is accurate, and the actors are doing a good job. Even if people are complaining about voice changes now, and they'd be complaining even harder if Vegeta were recast, eventually, eventually, with time, they'd get over it. They'd keep watching because they're interested in the series, not who voices who. To compare with another current FUNimation project - FullMetal Alchemist vs. FullMetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. They got most of the important cast back, but there were recasts, some major (Alphonse, Scar) and some minor (Dr. Marcoh, Breda). The original FullMetal Alchemist series stands as my favorite Anime - I got very attached to the voice cast of the original series. I find it really irritating when I watch Brotherhood now, and have to listen to some of the new voices. I've already grown used to Al; his new VA sounded like a more feminine (naturally) Dismuke impersonation in the beginning, but has since come into her own as the role. Alternatively, whenever Scar is onscreen, I'm just...gah. It's really hard to top someone like Dameon Clarke - to me, he is Scar, period. I don't like this new voice one bit. Even the minor cast replacements like Breda or Dr. Marcoh irritate me when I hear them, because it feels like they're different characters now. Granted the comparison is a little different since Brotherhood tells a different story, and some characters are a bit different in their Manga counterparts (which Brotherhood is based on)...but on the whole, they're still the same characters as they were in the first series. But that doesn't stop me from watching it, because even though I may prefer the original series, I'm still interested in Brotherhood. A few cast changes may irk me, but they're not going to make me stop watching.

Again...the Dragonball fanbase may be more vocal, and the series' impact on the Anime fandom in the west is definitely more significant than FMA, but the principle is the same. Voice changes suck when you come to associate a voice with a character, but the character is still the same character, and the series is still the same series...nothing really changes in the long run, and as long as the fans open their minds and stop being stubborn about it, eventually, they'd learn to get used to it. Maybe that doesn't apply to most of the members on this forum, because we fit that 'hardcore' classification. But on the whole, I don't think I'm wrong.

[penguintruth]

Ugh, Dameon Clarke's Scar was terrible. It was "generic bad guy voice". When the new guy speaks up, he's way more intimidating sounding than Clarke's Scar. The only problem is that they have him speak too softly most of the time.

[Puto]

Again...the Dragonball fanbase may be more vocal, and the series' impact on the Anime fandom in the west is definitely more significant than FMA, but the principle is the same. Voice changes suck when you come to associate a voice with a character, but the character is still the same character, and the series is still the same series...nothing really changes in the long run, and as long as the fans open their minds and stop being stubborn about it, eventually, they'd learn to get used to it. Maybe that doesn't apply to most of the members on this forum, because we fit that 'hardcore' classification. But on the whole, I don't think I'm wrong.

You tell me you'd watch Kai in Japanese if either Nozawa or Horikawa were to be replaced. Because I sure as hell wouldn't.

[penguintruth]

I really don't think Schemmel is anywhere near as iconic as Nozawa is, but yeah, I could see where some DBZ fans would be just as upset if Schemmel were replaces as I would be if Nozawa was.

Personally, I would think it was worth it replacing Schemmel to find somebody who actually suits the role, but that's me.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

You tell me you'd watch Kai in Japanese if either Nozawa or Horikawa were to be replaced. Because I sure as hell wouldn't.

I wouldn't have (and didn't) watch Kai in Japanese because I thought the whole idea behind it was stupid in the first place, when I can already enjoy DBZ. I'm only following Kai now for the sake of the dub. That being said, say Nozawa were to have passed away (a sad reality we'll eventually have to accept, as we have with others, such as Mr. Gouri), and they had no choice but to recast Gokou. I would be devastated, but I'd like to think in time I would grow to like the replacement in some respect. I went from Corlett to Kelamis to Schemmel before I was introduced to Nozawa. I didn't immediately take to Nozawa for obvious reasons, considering what type of voice I was used to for Gokou. Nozawa may have been 'the' original voice for Gokou, and has since come to be 'the' only one for me, but there was a time when she was not my original voice for Gokou. I held onto Corlett as my Gokou for a very long time, and he remains me #1 for English-language Gokou. The point is that over time, I was able to accept a new voice for the character. And I've even come to tolerate Schemmel's Gokou for the Kai dub. Maybe I just adjust better than some people? I don't think so, personally, because I've got quite a stubborn streak, but when it comes to something like this...yeah.

If the inevitable happened and Gokou had to be recast, we'd all be devastated, but I bet the majority of us would continue to watch Kai. Even if for the sake of curiosity, to see how the new voice evolves over time (I believe a lot of people have been doing this for Ayers' Freeza as it is, even those who initially did not take to it, so you can't say it's impossible), they'd watch. And the replacement voice may never replace the memories in our hearts, or be our iconic voice associated with the character, but I sure as Hell doubt it would cause the entire fanbase to crumble and stop watching Kai altogether. I know that for some people, Sean Connery will always be the James Bond, but does that mean that James Bond fans will boycott all non-Connery Bond films just because he's played by someone new? Certainly not. Like I said, even if the only reason someone goes into something like that is curiosity, it doesn't mean that it's impossible for someone to eventually warm up to someone new in the role of a beloved character, even if it never changes their idea of who 'the' iconic portrayal of that character is.

[Mewzard]

I really don't think Schemmel is anywhere near as iconic as Nozawa is, but yeah, I could see where some DBZ fans would be just as upset if Schemmel were replaces as I would be if Nozawa was.

Personally, I would think it was worth it replacing Schemmel to find somebody who actually suits the role, but that's me.

And personally, I'd sooner see Nozawa replaced than Schemmel. Not hating on Nozawa (I like Nozawa), but there's more of a draw for me to his performance now.

The dub's a more than fair compromise of improvements vs original dub material (in fact, a lot has changed, there are less holdovers than improvements, I'd say).

Let me have my Goku, and I'll let you have yours.

And it's expected to have continually new James Bond actors, just like there will always be new actors/voice actors for Superman and Batman.

Dragon Ball's a more finite story, so I'm happy to get my good dub with my Goku, and from then on, just update my sets according to new formats (VHS to DVD to Blu Ray to etc)

[penguintruth]

A point well taken.

But you have to realize that some people didn't like the dub because of the Funimation voices. It was the Funimation voices that were the problem. To some of them, there's no such thing as a good DBZ dub with a Funimation cast.

I'll concede that the scripts were always the biggest problem, but they weren't the only problem.

Kai's dub is a good enough compromise to me, but it's far from perfect.

[Mewzard]

A point well taken.

But you have to realize that some people didn't like the dub because of the Funimation voices. It was the Funimation voices that were the problem. To some of them, there's no such thing as a good DBZ dub with a Funimation cast.

I'll concede that the scripts were always the biggest problem, but they weren't the only problem.

Kai's dub is a good enough compromise to me, but it's far from perfect.

Of course, every version of DB animated is far from perfect. Even the original itself is, but they have both good points and bad points. To some, there's no such thing as a good DBZ with the Japanese cast. Are they wrong? Factually, yes, but in their own view, no.

If this level of dubbing isn't to your standards, then dubs just might not be for you, because they don't tend to get much better (though, there are a few that do).

[TheBlackPaladin]

I'm just glad that a whole new generation of kids are getting into DBZ through the Kai dub and not the original dub. Great acting, wonderful scripts, and...pretty good music. Yamamoto's score isn't better than Kikuchi's, in my opinion, but it definitely has its moments of superiority. Most notably, I've found that all of the scenes in Kai with insert songs have been more emotionally evocative on a musical level than Kikuchi's work...but the insert songs have only happened so many times.

[penguintruth]

I can agree with that much. Kids just getting into Z now through Kai are lucky.

Though once the Ocean dub for it comes out we'll get more conflict.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

I must admit, the dub does do a way better job than the original dub script of Z. Even the voice casting is more likeable. I just got sick of hearing that rough and whiney voice that Stephanie Nadolny did for kid Goku and Gohan, and for that reason, I hated Gohan in the series. But Colleen Clinkenbeard has done a pretty decent job at capturing Gohan's real personality, and now I don't think his character's that bad. But I still hate Schemmel as Goku. He doesn't really capture the good-hearted "down home" personality that Goku has in the original Japanese series.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Ugh, Dameon Clarke's Scar was terrible. It was "generic bad guy voice". When the new guy speaks up, he's way more intimidating sounding than Clarke's Scar. The only problem is that they have him speak too softly most of the time.

I really liked Clarke's voice for Scar, but I think the new voice is excellent as well. What really irks me is that the original Japanese voice was replaced in Brotherhood, too. That guy's voice is godly! (Of course, I haven't seen any of Brotherhood subbed yet, despite loving the Japanese cast more. I just haven't had much motivation to watch the show, since I've already finished the manga.) There were some other cast changes that I might not like, either, like Greed, Kimblee and even Mustang! All three voices were amazing in the original show (despite the show being a turd when compared to the new one), so I'm kinda scared to hear the new ones...

[TheBlackPaladin]

But I still hate Schemmel as Goku. He doesn't really capture the good-hearted "down home" personality that Goku has in the original Japanese series.

To each their own, I think he nails it. I'm particularly looking forward to the upcoming fight Goku has with Freeza in the new dub. My favorite of the original dub actors (Schemmel) and my favorite of the re-cast dub actors (Ayers)...it's gonna be heaven for me for the next couple episodes.

[Adamant]

You tell me you'd watch Kai in Japanese if either Nozawa or Horikawa were to be replaced. Because I sure as hell wouldn't.

At this point, I think most (obviously not all) of the "hardcore" fanbase is largely watching Kai for curiosity's sake, and seeing how things are handled this time around. Were Nozawa/Horikawa/Tanaka/Wakamoto/Furukawa/Nakao to be replaced, I think people would still be interested in seeing how their replacements lived up to the legacy.

And hey, they did replace Kikuchi, who also played an incredibly iconic role in the original Dragonball. We're still watching despite his absence.

[Puto]

Kikuchi's absence is part of the reason why I'm NOT following Japanese Kai anymore.

[Turtle Marked Stone]

But I still hate Schemmel as Goku. He doesn't really capture the good-hearted "down home" personality that Goku has in the original Japanese series.

To each their own, I think he nails it. I'm particularly looking forward to the upcoming fight Goku has with Freeza in the new dub. My favorite of the original dub actors (Schemmel) and my favorite of the re-cast dub actors (Ayers)...it's gonna be heaven for me for the next couple episodes.

I think that's the one part he got absolutely right too. He almost had it in the redubs from the little I've heard but absolutely perfected it during Kai.

It's the bad anger acting that gets me. It ends up sounding like this fussy whining to me. It has been getting less and less like that since season 4 but it still persists to this day. I'm not sure if people are hearing the same thing I am and it's a little hard to explain fully. (That's not to say he's ALWAYS doing it in Kai, he's fixed a great deal of it but there's still bits and pieces where I can hear him fall into that fussy fake anger.)

[TheBlackPaladin]

But I still hate Schemmel as Goku. He doesn't really capture the good-hearted "down home" personality that Goku has in the original Japanese series.

To each their own, I think he nails it. I'm particularly looking forward to the upcoming fight Goku has with Freeza in the new dub. My favorite of the original dub actors (Schemmel) and my favorite of the re-cast dub actors (Ayers)...it's gonna be heaven for me for the next couple episodes.

I think that's the one part he got absolutely right too. He almost had it in the redubs from the little I've heard but absolutely perfected it during Kai.

It's the bad anger acting that gets me. It ends up sounding like this fussy whining to me. It has been getting less and less like that since season 4 but it still persists to this day. I'm not sure if people are hearing the same thing I am and it's a little hard to explain fully. (That's not to say he's ALWAYS doing it in Kai, he's fixed a great deal of it but there's still bits and pieces where I can hear him fall into that fussy fake anger.)

I...*think* I might know what you're talking about. My wording is going to get confusing, though, so bear with me. Goku has three levels of anger, in order of intensity from least to greatest: quiet anger, noticeable anger, and raging anger. As much as I love Sean Schemmel--I've said it once and I'll say it again, I think he's the best Goku--I think the "noticeable anger" is where his portrayal is weakest. An example of this would be one of Goku's many, "My name is GOKU, and I'm from EARTH!" bits.

I attribute that mostly to the scripts, though. It's particularly noticeable when he started out, the writers just gave him so much fakey, hoakey, forced dialogue to speak, culminating in the positively dreadful "Hope of the Universe" speech. Schemmel even said himself that he hated recording that part because it struck him as totally out-of-character for Goku. Think about that for a second. We're talking about Schemmel when he was at his weakest, hadn't been playing the character that long, didn't know much about DBZ yet...and even then it struck him as out-of-character. A total newbie to both DBZ and to voice acting thought it was out-of-character. That speaks volumes of how bad the writing for the original DBZ dub was.

While the corniness of those moments has been toned down in Kai due to better scripts and better acting, it's definitely still there a little bit. I struggle with how much to pin that on Schemmel, though. I still firmly believe that there are some scenes of DBZ that are corny even with the Japanese script intact verbatim. They're not nearly as numerous, but they're still there. And yes, I've watched those scenes in Japanese extensively as well, and even the acting there doesn't really save the corniness of those moments. For example, the healing tank scenes when Goku is healing while the others fight with Freeza. All we got, even in Japanese, was this tiresome, corny, non-stop repetition of, "What's going on!? It's a new power! The others are in danger! I have to leave, but I can't yet...!"

Sean Schemmel nails the screaming, raging Goku just perfectly, though. He occasionally struggles with the more quiet instances of anger, but he can also do those very well when he lowers his voice. I for one thought his Super Saiyan 4 voice should have been the voice he used for when Goku goes Super Saiyan 1. It would work perfect for those scenes that requires a more tranquil, focused anger. I'm hoping that's the voice he uses when Goku talks to Freeza in the episode immediately following his first transformation.

In spite of all that, I will agree that for the most part his "noticeable anger" is the weakest part of his portrayal.