Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
User avatar
DragonBallFan8001
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:27 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 62

Post by DragonBallFan8001 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:10 pm

ryou766 wrote:Anyone know who did this shot of Black?

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Is that from this week's episode, or from the NEP? If it's from this week's episode, I'm pretty sure it's Higashide. It looks pretty similar to Yamamuro's designs (although without highlights), and none of the other prevalent animators' styles in this week's episode look that similar to Yamamuro's designs. Sadly I'm not very familar with the specifics of Higashide's style, but since his style looks very on-model, I'm pretty sure this was drawn by him.

By the way, does anyone perhaps know how to recognize Futoshi Higashide and Jin Inaba's animation? I have a hard time recognizing their styles as they look so similar to the character designs.

Edit: It just noticed there was already a reply, oops. :lol:
It could also be one of her corrections. I'm not very familiar with her style, sorry.

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6220
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 62

Post by Ajay » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:39 pm

Episode 63
Notable cut - Futoshi Higashide & Naoki Tate's Trunks vs Black:

--

Well, that was quite an episode. Manabe is obviously the primary supervisor on this episode, with his style dominating a large majority of the key scenes. As noted above, this is Yashima's first time ever sharing the supervisor role with another member of staff. It seems pretty clear that he's only really on this episode to handle the dialogue so that Manabe, Tate, and Higashide can focus on the action scenes. Even still, Yashima's style doesn't shine through particularly strongly. Uncharacteristically, Takeo Ide's corrections are pretty abundant throughout, taking over most of Yashima's work, and even slipping into the action in the second half.

The standout moment is of course Tate's cut, the bulk of which begins at 0:06 in the WebM, above. His work is scattered throughout the episode, but the highlights are the aforementioned cut, alongside the final Vegeta vs Black scene that marks the end of the episode. There's nothing totally out of this world about it, but it showcases his distinctive movement very nicely. Although Manabe corrects his work heavily (and Higashide's, for that matter), there's still enough of his own style coming through. I actually really like the combination, personally. Anyway, nothing to really talk about. It's nice, and definitely his best cut of the arc so far, but I imagine he's saving the big guns for his upcoming episode (hopefully!).

Higashide does quite a large number of cuts, but it seems like he mostly fills the gaps between other animators. Outside of a few very obvious scenes, it's a little hard to tell exactly what he did, as Manabe's corrections are very strong in an effort to tie everyone together. Vegeta pushing Black back is probably my favourite of his from this episode. The effects work is really nice!

Something to note is the use of more BANK animation. In the first half, you can see they've reused Shimanuki's ki-ball from episode 61. I believe a smoke cut last week was reused from somewhere else, but I didn't get a chance to hunt down where it came from. Either way, just another example next to Yashima's presence that shows they're doing whatever they can to let them animate the important parts without worrying about this unessential rubbish.

I don't really know how to feel about next week's episode. As many have noted, that NEP showcases almost nothing of worth. It doesn't resemble Yashima and it definitely doesn't resemble Karasawa. Perhaps we're only seeing scenes of little importance outside of the obvious fusion we saw. I get the feeling we're either being fooled and it's another low quality episode to give more time to an upcoming episode, or everything solid is going to be crammed into the second half. We shall see, but I'm not very excited, honestly. All my anticipation is for the NEP!
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

Deadtuber.

User avatar
ArchedThunder
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5718
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:03 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by ArchedThunder » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:16 pm

The movement in Trunks VS Black and Vegeta VS Black is really nice, Vegeta's "Pain light" punch to Black's stomach when he has him at the bottom of the building is also pretty nice.

You said Tate's work is scattered throughout the episode, do you have any examples beyond the Trunks fight? I didn't notice anything myself, though Vegeta's flurry of punches did remind me of something Tate did in 56 with Vegeta.

Also what's your thoughts on the Yashima art that is seemingly uncorrected in this episode? I feel like it looks like he's changing his style to something more visually appealing, but it could be that those shots are just lightly corrected as opposed to completely redrawn.

I'm also worried by the NEP, the complete lack of Karasawa really makes me wonder if we won't see much of him in the episode and if he's instead working heavily on animation for 65 or 66. 64 could be Karasawa's first flop, but fingers crossed they just didn't show the good stuff.

User avatar
nite_jay
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 929
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by nite_jay » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:38 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:The movement in Trunks VS Black and Vegeta VS Black is really nice, Vegeta's "Pain light" punch to Black's stomach when he has him at the bottom of the building is also pretty nice.

You said Tate's work is scattered throughout the episode, do you have any examples beyond the Trunks fight? I didn't notice anything myself, though Vegeta's flurry of punches did remind me of something Tate did in 56 with Vegeta.

Also what's your thoughts on the Yashima art that is seemingly uncorrected in this episode? I feel like it looks like he's changing his style to something more visually appealing, but it could be that those shots are just lightly corrected as opposed to completely redrawn.

I'm also worried by the NEP, the complete lack of Karasawa really makes me wonder if we won't see much of him in the episode and if he's instead working heavily on animation for 65 or 66. 64 could be Karasawa's first flop, but fingers crossed they just didn't show the good stuff.
I think the only Karasawa shots in the NEP were the Vegeta and Bulma shots from 0:13-0:14 of the NEP along with the Merged Zamasu shots.


I'd guess that Karasawa is probably doing the second half, though. I really think those merged Zamasu shots are him, and that would most likely be the cliffhanger for episode #65.

User avatar
Super Saiyan Swagger
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1978
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:17 am
Location: Australia

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:08 pm

Loved how they did this:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

User avatar
Mazingerdestro
Regular
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by Mazingerdestro » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:54 am

Manabe's art is great.
My only issue is that the eyes seem lifeless. It would be great for a zombie-saiyan arc and to tell the truth his eyes look great on Black. However, for Trunks, these eyes make him look evil

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6220
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by Ajay » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:46 am

Koji Nashizawa was the animation director and sole key animator on Xenoverse 2's animated cutscenes.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Hopefully I'll be able to get a better grasp of his style while I'm playing the game.

Though with Yamamuro as chief AD, perhaps not...
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

Deadtuber.

User avatar
kinisking
I Live Here
Posts: 4987
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:21 pm
Location: United States.

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by kinisking » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:52 am

Mazingerdestro wrote:Manabe's art is great.
My only issue is that the eyes seem lifeless. It would be great for a zombie-saiyan arc and to tell the truth his eyes look great on Black. However, for Trunks, these eyes make him look evil
I can see what you're talking about but I still love Manabe. His art might be my favorite
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.

User avatar
DragonBalllKaiHD
I Live Here
Posts: 2734
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:37 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:57 am

Another thing to note is that the cutscenes was done by TAP. Glad it has no effect on in-house staff that are very busy working on Super.

Also, it's not a confirmation, but it looks like Tadayoshi Yamamuro most likely won't have time working on an upcoming episode in this arc, after all the work he did on Super Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse cutscenes. He storyboarded, corrected, and animated them. That's a lot of time to do that by himself.
Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru's #1 biggest fan

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7865
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:00 am

Who did the bit with Vegeta grabbing Black by the face then smashing him downward through the building? The smoothness in the animation there was really, really damn good.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

Saikyo no Senshi
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:08 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:03 am

ekrolo2 wrote:Who did the bit with Vegeta grabbing Black by the face then smashing him downward through the building? The smoothness in the animation there was really, really damn good.
Higashide with Manabe corrections is my guess.

EDIT: Ajay knows way more than me, so its Tate.

- Travis
Last edited by Saikyo no Senshi on Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
DragonBalllKaiHD
I Live Here
Posts: 2734
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:37 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:06 am

This isn't directed at you, but generally speaking- I highly encourage you to figure that out on your own. Try to compare each animator's work each episode of Super and come up with your own conclusion. Ajay has put in a lot of work to demonstrate each of animator's traits. You should use his guide to help you figure yourself out.
Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru's #1 biggest fan

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6220
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by Ajay » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:09 am

ekrolo2 wrote:Who did the bit with Vegeta grabbing Black by the face then smashing him downward through the building? The smoothness in the animation there was really, really damn good.
The bit at the end of the episode?

Naoki Tate.
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

Deadtuber.

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7865
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:13 am

Ajay wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Who did the bit with Vegeta grabbing Black by the face then smashing him downward through the building? The smoothness in the animation there was really, really damn good.
The bit at the end of the episode?

Naoki Tate.
Really? It didn't look as rubbery as his stuff usually does which was present even in the episodes Trunks vs Black arc.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6220
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by Ajay » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:16 am

ekrolo2 wrote: Really? It didn't look as rubbery as his stuff usually does which was present even in the episodes Trunks vs Black arc.
If it's the bit I'm thinking of (I don't have the episode in front of me), you can go frame by frame and see the Tate-esque pointy feet and sketchy action lines. It's a bit more in line with his work on 56.
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

Deadtuber.

User avatar
nite_jay
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 929
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by nite_jay » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:47 am

I figured it was Tate. Especially when they showed Vegeta punching Black's shirt in the building.

User avatar
ArchedThunder
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5718
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:03 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by ArchedThunder » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:55 am

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:
Also, it's not a confirmation, but it looks like Tadayoshi Yamamuro most likely won't have time working on an upcoming episode in this arc, after all the work he did on Super Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse cutscenes. He storyboarded, corrected, and animated them. That's a lot of time to do that by himself.
Do we know for a fact that Yamamuro works on the Heroes animation? Also these cutscenes were likely finished at least 2 months ago, if not before that, also Yamamuro didn't do any animation for XV2. I'm only half way through the game, but the 2D animation has been pretty light and what's there is not anything to right home about, so I doubt a whole lot of time actually went into them. Koji Nashizawa did all the animation and he also worked on 62, so nothing says Yamamuro isn't working on an episode of Super. Also what I've seen of the animation in XV2 doesn't really look like Yamamuro, so I don't think he did a whole lot of correction work.

User avatar
Mazingerdestro
Regular
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by Mazingerdestro » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:34 am

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Another thing to note is that the cutscenes was done by TAP. Glad it has no effect on in-house staff that are very busy working on Super.

Also, it's not a confirmation, but it looks like Tadayoshi Yamamuro most likely won't have time working on an upcoming episode in this arc, after all the work he did on Super Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse cutscenes. He storyboarded, corrected, and animated them. That's a lot of time to do that by himself.
So there are more cut-scenes in xenoverse 2?
I saw some footage and in general none of the animated scenes "were animated" (sorry I can't think of a better way to put it). So there are animated battle scenes in the game? Please if possible avoid to spoil the story. Thank you

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6220
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by Ajay » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:06 pm

ArchedThunder wrote: You said Tate's work is scattered throughout the episode, do you have any examples beyond the Trunks fight?
Also what's your thoughts on the Yashima art that is seemingly uncorrected in this episode?
Sure. Here's a compilation of almost all of his parts. I left out dialogue stuff and/or lengthy stills:

Heavily corrected, as you can see. Heck, Takeo Ide redraws the gut punch at the end. There are only a few instances where he pops up without correction. Considering how often the action jumps between animators, it makes sense. Even Higashide's art is nothing like his own. Manabe definitely made a conscious effort to maintain consistency between cuts.

Fancy that, an animation supervisor actually doing his job well?! I actually really like his corrections, for the most part. The character models don't wildly deviate, but everyone's idiosyncrasies are still on full display.

As for Yashima, I don't think there were very many scenes that were uncorrected. With a few exceptions, it seemed like Yokoyama and Ide touched up the large majority of his work. The former especially, though they appeared to be only partial retouches.
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

Deadtuber.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 21430
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 63

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:02 pm

I'd really like to know who was responsible for this great cut:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Post Reply