"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[WittyUsername]

Regarding the Freeza thing, here's something I think is especially nonsensical about it; what reason would Freeza have for fighting alongside Goku in the first place? If he's only getting brought back to life for a day anyway, why would he care about the universe getting erased, especially if it means Goku dying? If anything, it seems like he would be rooting against Universe 7 for that very reason.

[jeffbr92]

Nothing will top Episode 66 in terms of debates among the fandom. That remains the most (in)famous thing that Super has done and I don't think even Freeza retuning will top it.

I think the reveal that Freeza was the villain of the 2015 DBZ movie that trained to rival the power of current Goku at time was way worse than Episode 66.

[Glen300]

Regarding the Freeza thing, here's something I think is especially nonsensical about it; what reason would Freeza have for fighting alongside Goku in the first place? If he's only getting brought back to life for a day anyway, why would he care about the universe getting erased, especially if it means Goku dying? If anything, it seems like he should be rooting against Universe 7 for that very reason.

I think Goku will use the Super DB as an incentive to get Frieza to join. Frieza may believe that he can use the DB to be resurrected.

[precita]

Frieza yet again?
I've really lost hope for Super to be ever good. It's a bummer, because they do seem to be exhausting every possible good development and doing it in an underwhelming manner.

Guess that's what happen when your goal is to have a series airing in order to sell merchandise rather than to tell a story.

Dragon Ball jumped that shark well well before Super, it started in the Cell arc where everyone started getting the fabled Super Saiyan transformation to point where little kiddies with no effort got it in the Buu arc.

The Buu saga was so much more consistent overall than what generally happens in Super now it's ridiculous. If anything it should make some people appreciate the Buu saga more when we didn't have wild power level fluctuations, most characters got good spotlight or a time to shine, and the characters who retired from fighting weren't treated like a joke such as Yamcha. Seriously compare Buu saga Yamcha to how he's treated now, it's a world of difference even though he wasn't a fighter back then either.

[shadowmaria]

It's officially Goku Day; should we expect any sort of big announcement?

(Frieza isn't a big announcement anymore)

[Totamo]

Frieza yet again?
I've really lost hope for Super to be ever good. It's a bummer, because they do seem to be exhausting every possible good development and doing it in an underwhelming manner.

Guess that's what happen when your goal is to have a series airing in order to sell merchandise rather than to tell a story.

Dragon Ball jumped that shark well well before Super, it started in the Cell arc where everyone started getting the fabled Super Saiyan transformation to point where little kiddies with no effort got it in the Buu arc.

The Buu saga was so much more consistent overall than what generally happens in Super now it's ridiculous. If anything it should make some people appreciate the Buu saga more when we didn't have wild power level fluctuations, most characters got good spotlight or a time to shine, and the characters who retired from fighting weren't treated like a joke such as Yamcha. Seriously compare Buu saga Yamcha to how he's treated now, it's a world of difference even though he wasn't a fighter back then either.

anime or manga because I don't think he was even in the manga.

and yes we did have power imfluxes, but that started with in namek saga with the zenkai boosts.


A lot of problems super and may I add GT, had started with Z, though they may not be as large, the foundation was there.

[Neon Z]

The Buu saga was so much more consistent overall than what generally happens in Super now it's ridiculous. If anything it should make some people appreciate the Buu saga more when we didn't have wild power level fluctuations, most characters got good spotlight or a time to shine, and the characters who retired from fighting weren't treated like a joke such as Yamcha. Seriously compare Buu saga Yamcha to how he's treated now, it's a world of difference even though he wasn't a fighter back then either.

The Buu Saga did have a bunch of statements suggesting that the base Saiyans aside from Goten and Trunks were stronger than Piccolo, which doesn't make sense coming from the Cell Saga where last time we saw him he could keep up with the Cell Jrs without being much worse off than Vegeta and Trunks as SSJs, although thankfully that never got to be outright shown in combat.

Also, it's kind of weird to see people taking Yamcha's humiliation so personally. Maybe it's because I watch Gintama which has been making fun of Yamcha for years, but I think this is actually some of the best use he has ever gotten ever since the 23rd Budokai.

[kizuki]

You just mostly described Z. Z didn't have too much Goku. Super has had too much Goku. Simple. And why people like characters to get time to shine? People like seeing their favorite characters being relevant and doing cool things instead of only one character doing cool things. Also simple. Honestly it's all pretty simple. I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend for so many people.

Yea, I get you. It's not hard to comprehend you want less Goku, as I can read it clearly, lol. Guess what I'm wondering is WHY? Fact of the matter is it's a series that revolves around him. Aside from the side characters getting an episode or 2 per Arc to show they're still alive this is what we get. And I don't mind.

Everyone had a nice, mini light shined on them if they are involved with this tournament recently, and that's about as good as it'll get for anyone not named Son Goku. Them's the brakes.

Only people really getting shafted are Goten and Trunks, and Yamcha. But honestly, the DB Community has been pointing a finger and laughing at Yamcha for so long it seems like that's the type of thing they're writing in. Not surprising in the least bit.

Well this is only part of it, but a big reason is how much of a shadow of his former self Goku is in Super. He's become an annoying idiot who only cares about himself most of the time.

I'd argue that this Goku is the real Goku that Toriyama always pictured him being, lol.

[Avok]

Yea, I get you. It's not hard to comprehend you want less Goku, as I can read it clearly, lol. Guess what I'm wondering is WHY? Fact of the matter is it's a series that revolves around him. Aside from the side characters getting an episode or 2 per Arc to show they're still alive this is what we get. And I don't mind.

Everyone had a nice, mini light shined on them if they are involved with this tournament recently, and that's about as good as it'll get for anyone not named Son Goku. Them's the brakes.

Only people really getting shafted are Goten and Trunks, and Yamcha. But honestly, the DB Community has been pointing a finger and laughing at Yamcha for so long it seems like that's the type of thing they're writing in. Not surprising in the least bit.

Well this is only part of it, but a big reason is how much of a shadow of his former self Goku is in Super. He's become an annoying idiot who only cares about himself most of the time.

I'd argue that this Goku is the real Goku that Toriyama always pictured him being, lol.

This is not true. The difference between the Goku portrayed in the manga and in Super is astronomical.

[SaiyanGod117]

Yea, I get you. It's not hard to comprehend you want less Goku, as I can read it clearly, lol. Guess what I'm wondering is WHY? Fact of the matter is it's a series that revolves around him. Aside from the side characters getting an episode or 2 per Arc to show they're still alive this is what we get. And I don't mind.

Everyone had a nice, mini light shined on them if they are involved with this tournament recently, and that's about as good as it'll get for anyone not named Son Goku. Them's the brakes.

Only people really getting shafted are Goten and Trunks, and Yamcha. But honestly, the DB Community has been pointing a finger and laughing at Yamcha for so long it seems like that's the type of thing they're writing in. Not surprising in the least bit.

Well this is only part of it, but a big reason is how much of a shadow of his former self Goku is in Super. He's become an annoying idiot who only cares about himself most of the time.

I'd argue that this Goku is the real Goku that Toriyama always pictured him being, lol.

I would have to disagree, since Toriyama wrote the scripts entirely for both BOG & ROF and Goku acts nothing like how he does in Super. On top of there being a little further added introspection, development, and layers into Goku's character during his battle with Beerus.

[Totamo]

Well this is only part of it, but a big reason is how much of a shadow of his former self Goku is in Super. He's become an annoying idiot who only cares about himself most of the time.

I'd argue that this Goku is the real Goku that Toriyama always pictured him being, lol.

This is not true. The difference between the Goku portrayed in the manga and in Super is astronomical.

I disagree with that, wholeheartedly. There are instances of exaggeration, but thats not a consistent thing. Goku is the same, an idiot who is a fighting genius.

I find it weird how many justify Goku's actions back in Z but draw the line at super. I mean, Goku let Freeza go in the namek saga and gave Cell a senzu bean and there is many evidence to suggest he would have sacrificed 18 for a fight though trunks may have been able to convince him.

[Simere]

I find it weird how many justify Goku's actions back in Z but draw the line at super. I mean, Goku let Freeza go in the namek saga and gave Cell a senzu bean and there is many evidence to suggest he would have sacrificed 18 for a fight though trunks may have been able to convince him.

What evidence?

[SaiyanGod117]

I'd argue that this Goku is the real Goku that Toriyama always pictured him being, lol.

This is not true. The difference between the Goku portrayed in the manga and in Super is astronomical.

I disagree with that, wholeheartedly. There are instances of exaggeration, but thats not a consistent thing. Goku is the same, an idiot who is a fighting genius.

I find it weird how many justify Goku's actions back in Z but draw the line at super. I mean, Goku let Freeza go in the namek saga and gave Cell a senzu bean and there is many evidence to suggest he would have sacrificed 18 for a fight though trunks may have been able to convince him.

Goku was never a idiot in Z, the only time whenever you call Goku stupid in Dragon Ball is when he was a kid, and didn't know the difference between a boy and girl. In spite of that, it was naivety more than anything else as a result of growing up in the wilderness. While in Super, aspects of Goku's character is flanderized mostly every episode. People aren't making this stuff up in there heads, we've seen how Goku's grown up, matured, and the choices he's taken over years. Super makes it feel like half of his character development and growth never even happenend.

[Totamo]

I find it weird how many justify Goku's actions back in Z but draw the line at super. I mean, Goku let Freeza go in the namek saga and gave Cell a senzu bean and there is many evidence to suggest he would have sacrificed 18 for a fight though trunks may have been able to convince him.

What evidence?

What vegeta basically did was the risk the world for a fight, Goku did the exact same thing in the beginning of the said arc. He gave a Cell a senzu to give Gohan a good fight, even though it could have easily gone wrong. He wanted to beat Freeza at his best despite not knowing how strong it could have been.


Goku and Vegeta are more similar than people give credit for, they both do dumb things for a fight and have cost the lives of billions through their reckless actions.

[Avok]

I'd argue that this Goku is the real Goku that Toriyama always pictured him being, lol.

This is not true. The difference between the Goku portrayed in the manga and in Super is astronomical.

I disagree with that, wholeheartedly. There are instances of exaggeration, but thats not a consistent thing. Goku is the same, an idiot who is a fighting genius.

I find it weird how many justify Goku's actions back in Z but draw the line at super. I mean, Goku let Freeza go in the namek saga and gave Cell a senzu bean and there is many evidence to suggest he would have sacrificed 18 for a fight though trunks may have been able to convince him.

It is a consistent thing.
And I'm not even talking about specific moments like the ones you mentioned (that are actually well tought and completely different from what he's done in Super) but even something like his interactios with the other characters is just off. The only moment where he behave like himself was back at the exhibition match, when Gohan was fighting.

Goku was sometimes naive, but his whole character didn't revolve around that. Remember, Toriyama said that the elements of posion within him were subtle. Even so, when you look at the role of mentor he had on the majority of the Cell and Boo arc the difference with his characterisation is Super should be evident.

[Simere]

I find it weird how many justify Goku's actions back in Z but draw the line at super. I mean, Goku let Freeza go in the namek saga and gave Cell a senzu bean and there is many evidence to suggest he would have sacrificed 18 for a fight though trunks may have been able to convince him.

What evidence?

What vegeta basically did was the risk the world for a fight, Goku did the exact same thing in the beginning of the said arc. He gave a Cell a senzu to give Gohan a good fight, even though it could have easily gone wrong. He wanted to beat Freeza at his best despite not knowing how strong it could have been.


Goku and Vegeta are more similar than people give credit for, they both do dumb things for a fight and have cost the lives of billions through their reckless actions.

They're certainly similar things, but there's a big difference between risking people's lives in an indirect, abstract sense and letting someone die right in front of you by your permission. Goku would never do that.

[SaiyanGod117]

What vegeta basically did was the risk the world for a fight, Goku did the exact same thing in the beginning of the said arc.

He wanted to beat Freeza at his best despite not knowing how strong it could have been.

I would regard this as a case of same intentions, but different motives. Goku wanted to beat Frieza at his best for a multitude underlying reasons; while Vegeta wanted to use Cell's full power as a measuring stick to test his strength.

[Totamo]

This is not true. The difference between the Goku portrayed in the manga and in Super is astronomical.

I disagree with that, wholeheartedly. There are instances of exaggeration, but thats not a consistent thing. Goku is the same, an idiot who is a fighting genius.

I find it weird how many justify Goku's actions back in Z but draw the line at super. I mean, Goku let Freeza go in the namek saga and gave Cell a senzu bean and there is many evidence to suggest he would have sacrificed 18 for a fight though trunks may have been able to convince him.

Goku was never a idiot in Z, the only time whenever you call Goku stupid in Dragon Ball is when he was a kid, and didn't know the difference between a boy and girl. In spite of that, it was naivety more than anything else as a result of growing up in the wilderness. While in Super, aspects of Goku's character is flanderized mostly every episode. People aren't making this stuff up in there heads, we've seen how Goku's grown up, matured, and the choices he's taken over years. Super makes it feel like half of his character development and growth never even happenend.

Thats bullshit, man. Goku was a dangerous moron in Z.


Him allowing vegeta to escape just to fight him again was stupid. This man was indirectly responsible for the death of your friends and you let him go. What if Vegeta got healed as soon as he landed and came right back to Earth. They all would have died and it be on Goku's head.


Goku gets on namek and then he works with Vegeta. Yes, he was helping but for selfish reasons and Goku relies on him. Does he not know Vegeta's character? Then Freeza happens and he kills his best friend and Goku transforms. Instead of killing Freeza instantly. he toys with him and then he allows to power up to full power. He had no idea how strong Freeza was. Then after Freeza defeats himself, he gives him energy and lets. him. go.


Now this murderer killed innocent people even children and Goku not only lets him go but gives more than enough to launch a ki blast at him.

Then we get to Cell and its even worse. Goku is told the apocalypse was going to happen and Bulma gives an idea on how to stop it. Vegeta rejects and Goku agrees for the same reason, he does say he hasn't done anything wrong but then he says he wants a challenge.

And then we are in the time chamber and he spends all this time training Gohan and barely training himself. Gohan says this. Meaning Goku put the world in the hands of his 10 year old son. Then during the fight he gives Cell a senzu bean to give his son a fair fight.

Then the buu saga happens, Goku is the main reason that Buu is revived. Vegeta became majin to beat him. Thats not the dumb part. It was fighting Vegeta evenly which lead to the revival of Buu when we later learned he could have stopped it, and don't give me the Vegeta pride crap. Vegeta is a saiyan, he rather be beaten by your strongest than crush your weakest. Then he puts the hands in the world in a 7 year old and an 8 year old, children which worked so well last time.

Then he purposely stalls when he can crush Majin Buu but he wants the kids to have a chance when it wasn't even their fault. This mistake lead to the first time Erath was destroyed and it was all on Goku.

All of these could have horribly backfired and one actually did, but the plot bails him out.

We can say they are reckless, selfish but the fact is Goku makes the same mistake several times. That makes him dumb

[Totamo]

This is not true. The difference between the Goku portrayed in the manga and in Super is astronomical.

I disagree with that, wholeheartedly. There are instances of exaggeration, but thats not a consistent thing. Goku is the same, an idiot who is a fighting genius.

I find it weird how many justify Goku's actions back in Z but draw the line at super. I mean, Goku let Freeza go in the namek saga and gave Cell a senzu bean and there is many evidence to suggest he would have sacrificed 18 for a fight though trunks may have been able to convince him.

It is a consistent thing.
And I'm not even talking about specific moments like the ones you mentioned (that are actually well tought and completely different from what he's done in Super) but even something like his interactios with the other characters is just off. The only moment where he behave like himself was back at the exhibition match, when Gohan was fighting.

Goku was sometimes naive, but his whole character didn't revolve around that. Remember, Toriyama said that the elements of posion within him were subtle. Even so, when you look at the role of mentor he had on the majority of the Cell and Boo arc the difference with his characterisation is Super should be evident.

Name one time in the manga that does not involve fighting or training, that Goku is intelligent and I will never argue about this with you again.

[Turambar]

I dont see the difference, if they put in Yamcha then its also considered "fanservice" because we were all so sure who the 10 members were, this is just a minor knee jerk reaction by some people because the info just got confirmed, basically this is normal, I remember when the info about FemBroly popped out, people were losing their minds, Lord Beerus was one of them, but now everyone moved on came into terms with it and is now excited for her, same can be said about Black.
Fanservice isnt exactly negative, its only negative if you didnt like what they did.

It's true. I freaking lost when Fem Broly was revealed. And the knee jerk reactions I provided, in juxtaposition to that reveal, were really terrible. That's why with this bombshell, I took enough time to digest the news and respond to it appropriately.

I also hate how the term "fanservice" is being casually thrown around.

Now THAT is character development right there. Ha ha.